joeisayo wrote:
The Nikon D3/D700 are awesome cameras and have features and performance I hope Canon can meet or beat with future cameras. What makes me not consider switching to Nikon is the unpleasant skin tones (plus fast primes) from the Nikon sensors.
Besides in the next 12 months you will see a different strategy from Canon which will benefit those who didn't switch.
:-) You think so? I think they are just a try to match Canons standard and be able to compete the first time. D 700 is overpriced € 1000. D2 is same. € 2300. Its a D700 with emplemented grip. Nothing else. They fit 5D standards only. Those where set 3 years ago. 5D is already still overpriced. Like 1D MKIII is. And 1DS MKIII is far from good and evel.
You are right with your benefit-thoughts. But isnt it horrible, that they did not get the idea by themselfs?
Edited by Ralph Conway on Aug 04, 2008 at 08:55 PM GMT
nikt wrote:
Back on topic, tentacle, I agree to a point.
Canon very well could bring out a very high MP camera of 18+. It would be the only one of its kind. The only other FX camera with 18+ MP is the rather expensive 1dsMKIII. There is a price point this camera could easily fit into in my opinion. And it would be good for another 3 years.
Edited by guardian on Aug 05, 2008 at 12:43 AM GMT
By FX do you mean FF?
But, what's the point? There will be very little difference in IQ between a 16mp 5DII and the 1DsIII.
Nikon will eventually force Canon to put the biggest, newest sensor in a small body.
Perhaps some of the "glee" on part of Canon reps is that the D700 has a 12mp sensor. They would have needed to slash the price of the 5DII if the D700 beat it in all specs. Rational or not. MP is spec #1.
Eventually things will change, but until then they will remain the same
But, what's the point? There will be very little difference in IQ between a 16mp 5DII and the 1DsIII.
Nikon will eventually force Canon to put the biggest, newest sensor in a small body.
Perhaps some of the "glee" on part of Canon reps is that the D700 has a 12mp sensor. They would have needed to slash the price of the 5DII if the D700 beat it in all specs. Rational or not. MP is spec #1.
Eventually things will change, but until then they will remain the same
Sweet- "The biggest newest sensor" I mean. Dont you think that 16-21 MP is already done 3-5 years ago? And they already put it in ANY body? State of the art (known) is 40 MP. They operate in their laborities with already 80 to 120 MP. What do you think will come in 2-3 years? 28? :-)
Other than noise profiles and other software based approaches, it seems that the key to good ISO performance is in the pixel size and microlenses. I would not sacrifice more MP for better ISO performance, the raw files from the 5D are already big enough. I guess what we see with the DsIII is better ISO performance with smaller pixels so maybe the new sensor has been able to do more with the smaller pixels. Hopefully some of the improvements in the new Ds sensor will trickle down to the new 5D but regardless I don't think Canon has been sitting back, I expect their new releases to be substantial.
My $.02.... If Canon were going to announce "Son of D5" at photokina, they are smart enough and savvy enough to figure out that if they'd simply announce that there would be a significant announcement sometime in the near future, it would instantly freeze the market, or at least slow the defection rate and loss of sales they are possibly feeling. Short version, there is little or no down side to showing their cards right away. The upside?. .. Almost no one will buy a D700 today if the new gee whiz Canon is now palpably around the corner... Sends us all to the sidelines into wait n see mode for a few minutes, and starts a pent up demand and excitement for their new camera.
So, Canon, show us what you've got!
the defections are like the tides, and will reverse soon enough. Could be already in the budget. But, I believe the defections started with the D3/D300 release last year... and, as we all know... newer is better. As odd as it sounds, from a marketing perspective, the trouble with the 5D is it is almost too good as it is. At its current price point it compares very favorably with the D700. Too many improvements, and it encroaches on the markets of the uber Canons. The new D5-Ultra will have be the perfect tweener.
I think the entire industry is being put in a box by upstart Sony... Sony is putting everybody into a new game. Sony is looking at everybody like they did Minolta. They have billions to play with, and will make some serious waves. Canon has far more to fear than just competition from stodgy ol' Nikon.. A disruptive newcomer may be the best thing possible for us, the consumers.
Offered as a humble opinion, since I am observing all this from a distant Cave on Black Mountain and know nothing of my own knowledge...
let me ask you Nikon FTN or Canon F1? ooops I forgot this aint 1969 ...Different year same argument........
PS.. Back then I was a nikon man.......Times have changed..
eddyboy wrote:
My $.02.... If Canon were going to announce "Son of D5" at photokina, they are smart enough and savvy enough to figure out that if they'd simply announce that there would be a significant announcement sometime in the near future, it would instantly freeze the market, or at least slow the defection rate and loss of sales they are possibly feeling. Short version, there is little or no down side to showing their cards right away. The upside?. .. Almost no one will buy a D700 today if the new gee whiz Canon is now palpably around the corner... Sends us all to the sidelines into wait n see mode for a few minutes, and starts a pent up demand and excitement for their new camera.
So, Canon, show us what you've got!
the defections are like the tides, and will reverse soon enough. Could be already in the budget. But, I believe the defections started with the D3/D300 release last year... and, as we all know... newer is better. As odd as it sounds, from a marketing perspective, the trouble with the 5D is it is almost too good as it is. At its current price point it compares very favorably with the D700. Too many improvements, and it encroaches on the markets of the uber Canons. The new D5-Ultra will have be the perfect tweener.
I think the entire industry is being put in a box by upstart Sony... Sony is putting everybody into a new game. Sony is looking at everybody like they did Minolta. They have billions to play with, and will make some serious waves. Canon has far more to fear than just competition from stodgy ol' Nikon.. A disruptive newcomer may be the best thing possible for us, the consumers.
Offered as a humble opinion, since I am observing all this from a distant Cave on Black Mountain and know nothing of my own knowledge......Show more →
Don't laugh, but I'll guarantee Samsung over take Sony. They have even deeper pockets, having not made so many monumental stuff ups, have their own fab and are working on FF and have Pentax as a partner. Sony is well ahead for now though.
Wacom wrote:
let me ask you Nikon FTN or Canon F1? ooops I forgot this aint 1969 ...Different year same argument........
PS.. Back then I was a nikon man.......Times have changed..
Ralph Conway wrote:
[...] Sweet- "The biggest newest sensor" I mean. Dont you think that 16-21 MP is already done 3-5 years ago? And they already put it in ANY body? State of the art (known) is 40 MP. They operate in their laborities with already 80 to 120 MP. What do you think will come in 2-3 years? 28? :-)
Please state sensor size before you talk pixel count
Dalsa did a 111 Mpixel sensor back in 2006. No, not a typo, that's 10,560 pixels x 10,560 pixels at 9µm pixel pitch. But at almost 4x4" (95x95 mm) it's quite a bit bigger than 35 mm format. See http://www.dalsa.com/news/news.asp?itemID=252
The high res digicompact camera sensors dip below the 2µm pixel pitch, (1.8 and 1.7µm, with 1.4µm in development) which would put a 36x24 mm sensor at about 25.710x17.140. If you do the math you end up with the proverbial ball park figure of 440 Mpixels.
Commercial pixel count, excluding line-scan cameras, is at 39 Mpixel (Phase One P45, Hasselblad H3D-39). Announcements have been made for 50 Mpixel (Hasselblad H3D-50), 56 Mpixel (Leaf AFi 10) and 60 Mpixel (Phase One P65+). But you'll notice that all these are MF format cameras (with varying cropfactor), not 35 mm format.
I don't know why the big push for megapixels. There was a post not too long ago about IQ comparisons between the 5D and Hasselblad and I think most people agree that the 5D did more than an admirable job of keeping up with the medium format. The mp difference will eventually come to a head. The difference in resolution between the DsII and DsIII was very subtle considering the new camera had 25-30% more pixels. In lines of resolution, the DsIII now exceeds film. The flexibility and user interface is where camera's can provide the bigger improvement by allowing us to take photos in conditions we weren't able to before. I don't want better iso performance because I don't have fast glass - I already have that covered, I want ISO performance so that I can take advantage of depth of field or shutter speed - to open up more options for creativity. The cameras are going that way - and we're all going to benefit.
george malamis wrote:
I don't know why the big push for megapixels. There was a post not too long ago about IQ comparisons between the 5D and Hasselblad and I think most people agree that the 5D did more than an admirable job of keeping up with the medium format. The mp difference will eventually come to a head. The difference in resolution between the DsII and DsIII was very subtle considering the new camera had 25-30% more pixels. In lines of resolution, the DsIII now exceeds film. The flexibility and user interface is where camera's can provide the bigger improvement by allowing us to take photos in conditions we weren't able to before. I don't want better iso performance because I don't have fast glass - I already have that covered, I want ISO performance so that I can take advantage of depth of field or shutter speed - to open up more options for creativity. The cameras are going that way - and we're all going to benefit....Show more →
