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Archive 2008 · Passive aggression for Uncle Bob...

  
 
ksmahgrts
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p.2 #1 · Passive aggression for Uncle Bob...


sav0320 wrote:
Well, unless he tells them, do you think they're capable of figuring it out. Yeah, didn't think so.


yea. totally ok to screw with people as long as they don't know you're doing it. serves them right for wanting photographs of their loved ones on their wedding day.

c'mon people.

a huge part of being a professional is communicating effectively. if you're not prepared to completely exclude others shooting, a simple 'folks, i'll be happy to let everyone photograph the happy couple, but please do me a favor and wait for my thumbs-up so we all can get them looking their best, and looking at the camera.' would probably go a long way in solving the problem - and you wouldn't have to be a jerk in the process.



Jul 03, 2008 at 01:33 PM
jeremy_clay
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p.2 #2 · Passive aggression for Uncle Bob...


Might want to really tone down the amount of softening you're doing to these people, especially the groom...it's quite overdone and can make your subjects look soft/mushy/bruised.


Jul 03, 2008 at 02:46 PM
truthseeker
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p.2 #3 · Passive aggression for Uncle Bob...


So how many of you are actually shooting for free? How many of you are depending on prints sales to make any money back after the fact? How many of you have posted numerous times about guests doing whatever they want whenever they want, even though you asked them pretty please?

And yes, it was totally necessary to give out the local guy's website. Would you second shoot for him? He's a nice guy, but I don't think he can help me with anything.

So far, I've gotten zero complaints before, during, or after the wedding about ANYTHING. I did a good job for them at a great price.

I got them some nice photos of their family, and they weren't tempted to "settle" for a P&S shot. They were gently prodded into seeing the value of a nice photo and paying a few bucks for it rather than sticking with the same old crap. At the same time, it helped pay for my gas to get there. Win-win. Call it whatever you like, but they got a nice print to remember the day with, I made a couple bucks, and nobody got pissed off then or now. Now that I think about it, you people (I'm generalizing) are the only ones not happy with the outcome. Why?

Also, did I not explicitly say that this would not be something to do if you were charging up front for it? I thought that was clear. Freebies are freebies. Not lose-your-ass-bies.



Jul 03, 2008 at 02:54 PM
hassy501
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p.2 #4 · Passive aggression for Uncle Bob...


Soft and mushy....mmmmm......but not bruised....no no no......


Jul 03, 2008 at 02:55 PM
truthseeker
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p.2 #5 · Passive aggression for Uncle Bob...


jeremy_clay wrote:
Might want to really tone down the amount of softening you're doing to these people, especially the groom...it's quite overdone and can make your subjects look soft/mushy/bruised.



Thanks, I noticed that too. It doesn't look so bad on the full-res shots. I'm going to play with the opacity a little and tone it down.



Jul 03, 2008 at 02:57 PM
truthseeker
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p.2 #6 · Passive aggression for Uncle Bob...


SingleMalt wrote:
Actually, it's been a while since I've seen a post (by anyone) where that wasn't said by practically everyone posting in the thread.




Here's one. https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/660330/0#5884112



Jul 03, 2008 at 03:04 PM
Evan Baines
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p.2 #7 · Passive aggression for Uncle Bob...


By contrast, my last two or three weddings I've had a relative with a DSLR who's very intent on "covering" the day. Not only have I not interfered, but I've let them have an extra PW for formals and set their camera, on the stipulation that they wait their turn. This gives them a really concrete reason to wait until I'm done, and the goodwill from my sharing encourages them to cooperate.

Am I maybe selling a few less prints on Pictage because of this? Probably.

However, I've also gotten thank-you notes from these people who appreciate my being willing to share.... and who also now realize a little more all that goes into doing a wedding right rather than just running around on full-auto. What do you want to bet those print sales will be offset by referrals?

I know you may not be in the same boat I am, but I really believe goodwill comes back to you.

Edited on Jul 03, 2008 at 04:38 PM



Jul 03, 2008 at 04:34 PM
weeums
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p.2 #8 · Passive aggression for Uncle Bob...


"photosbyRDD" said:
(And we wonder why wedding photographers are thought of as being in the same league as used car salesmen!)

OH GREAT..... I'm both a used car salesman and a wedding photographer and it's hard to sleep at night!

I just have fun with the "uncle bob's" and "aunt jane's" - when I have a formal shot all setup and such and they are crowding around me... I pause hold my camera down and let them shoot away (within reason) and then I take over commandingly and lovingly so and remind the people of subject to "MAKE MINE BETTER THAN THERE's! - the BRIDE and GROOM will appreciate it!"..... HA It' gets a few laughs

guess I'll go see if I can get some sleep. It's almost the weekend and I've got to sell a car and shoot a wedding!



Jul 03, 2008 at 04:50 PM
hassy501
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p.2 #9 · Passive aggression for Uncle Bob...


At my last wedding i had TWO shooters with pro gear....Canon Mark II's, 70-200's..i spoke with the groom about it, inquired who they were, and what were their intentions...they were even dressed in ninja black like wedding pros........he told me they were relatives.......i requested that they not interfere with my work.......that's all i said.......he spoke with them, they came over to me, told me they would not get in my way or interfere and they never did......not once........no problemo !!

Edited by hassy501 on Jul 04, 2008 at 12:44 AM GMT

Edited on Jul 03, 2008 at 07:44 PM



Jul 03, 2008 at 04:59 PM
Brian Mullins
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p.2 #10 · Passive aggression for Uncle Bob...


Truth - sorry man but I still disagree. You know people will have cameras there and you know they will be taking photos. I can understand you doing wanting to make as much off of print sales as possible but it's your decision to shoot for little to no $$$, not the families.

Now, if you have a contract that say no photos, that is a much more ethical way of handling it as the family can be informed. I don't think anyone here would have an issue with you disallowing people from taking formal shots. Again, nothing wrong with settings your strobes to optically fire - just don't do it out of spite.



Jul 03, 2008 at 05:40 PM
PhotosByRDD
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p.2 #11 · Passive aggression for Uncle Bob...


RedWhiteandRed wrote:
Very nice pictures.


Tongue firmly planted in cheek, Red?

Some aren't in focus... others are plastisized with too much softening/blur. Making nice comments instead of giving honest critiques does nothing to improve the poster's work. If anything politically correct "at-a-boy's" are a disservice to the shooter. I'd rather be ripped with a fair, honest critique the identifies what that critiquer's issues are than a mindless, meaningless pat on the back any day.




Edited on Jul 03, 2008 at 05:43 PM



Jul 03, 2008 at 05:41 PM
truthseeker
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p.2 #12 · Passive aggression for Uncle Bob...


PhotosByRDD wrote:
Tongue firmly planted in cheek, Red?

Some aren't in focus... others are plastisized with too much softening/blur. Making nice comments instead of giving honest critiques does nothing to improve the poster's work. If anything politically correct "at-a-boy's" are a disservice to the shooter. I'd rather be ripped with a fair, honest critique the identifies what that critiquer's issues are than a mindless, meaningless pat on the back any day.




At least I can work with that and fix things. You won't catch me getting butt-hurt because my photos got ripped on. It's my fault, so I'll fix it and try again.

As for blocking Bob et al, I just don't see it being so terrible to realize the added bonus of optically triggering your flash is that you get less interference from the P&S's, don't have to tell anybody anything (this crowd would be offended if asked not to shoot), and sell some prints that wouldn't have been ordered otherwise. It's not done out of spite, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't happy with the results. Like I said, when I'm not making photos with plastic processing anymore, I'll charge a fair amount up front and let them shoot all day.

As for referrals, I'm guaranteed no less than 6 weddings from this one event. They don't remember anything about the group shots. They remember how nice and friendly I was with them for the other 99.8% or the time I was there. Had I asked in any fashion for them to refrain from shooting even briefly, they'd remember me as a jerk. They've said (exact words), "Most photographers are assholes, but you're so nice!" Apparently, in practice, what I did isn't really all that bad.



Jul 03, 2008 at 06:21 PM
Brian Mullins
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p.2 #13 · Passive aggression for Uncle Bob...


Truth - I'm glad you have the gameplan and attitude you do... It's a healthy way to approach this business and I think you will do well.

One thing I will pass along. If I got all the referral business that I was told I would get, well then my prices would be triple what I currently charge. Getting referrals is great but there is no such thing as a guaranteed wedding until the bride says "I do". So food for thought man....



Jul 03, 2008 at 06:37 PM
PhotosByRDD
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p.2 #14 · Passive aggression for Uncle Bob...


At least I can work with that and fix things. You won't catch me getting butt-hurt because my photos got ripped on. It's my fault, so I'll fix it and try again.

Which is exactly as it should be. Listen, learn and make corrections accordingly. Isn't that a much better option than everyone giving you an insincere "at-a-boy... great job... you rock" and not giving you any opportunity to actually learn and grow?



Jul 03, 2008 at 06:38 PM
RedWhiteandRed
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p.2 #15 · Passive aggression for Uncle Bob...


PhotosByRDD wrote:
Tongue firmly planted in cheek, Red?


Nope - the pictures are nice. I like them.



Jul 03, 2008 at 07:24 PM
Marcus Watts
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p.2 #16 · Passive aggression for Uncle Bob...


If you shoot for free do you make sure you don't give them the images for that?
It would be good marketing to get them in for free, maybe offer one free image but tell them the prints are for sale after the wedding.
Three week special prices then double after that.
Three months later notify the couple that you will be doing the special prices for one more week before pulling the images offline. If they pass that on to friends and family and sales go over a certain point you will throw in a loose enlargement.
Don't give too much away.
Getting back to your original problem i agree that it is best solved at time of contract signing. Everything is negotiable at that point.
On the day is a little embarrassing.



Jul 03, 2008 at 10:25 PM
Edward Crim
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p.2 #17 · Passive aggression for Uncle Bob...


So, you're shooting for free...

At that price you can't find better-looking people? It may be unfair (life is quite unfair), but beautiful people sell, and if you want to sell (someday) you will need to have some attractive photos.

Edited by Edward Crim on Jul 07, 2008 at 07:23 AM GMT

Edited on Jul 06, 2008 at 07:23 PM



Jul 03, 2008 at 10:35 PM
cordellwillis
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p.2 #18 · Passive aggression for Uncle Bob...


truthseeker

If your forum name is true, listen to what many of the folks are saying to you. It's honest to goodness business sense.

There is no need to do things the way you did and then brag about it even though there are some who gave you applause. Believe me you are not the first to come up with this idea. It crossed my mind years ago and over time I've read about others on this and other forums doing the same thing you did. However, I decided to take a different route. I have it in my contract that photography is not allowed during formals. The rest of the day is fine as long as no one gets in my way (including other vendors like videographers....I will work with them to get what they need).

During formals I make an announcement for anyone who is not in the formal pictures to leave the area. I also make sure I tell any and everyone to not take pictures during formals.

At the consultation with my clients I make sure they understand these points. The best reason you want to give them is because you want to move quickly and you want to make sure everyone is looking at YOUR camera during formals.

Be more professional about your tactics.

Edited on Jul 03, 2008 at 10:47 PM



Jul 03, 2008 at 10:46 PM
runner301
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p.2 #19 · Passive aggression for Uncle Bob...


truthseeker wrote:
They've said (exact words), "Most photographers are assholes, but you're so nice!" Apparently, in practice, what I did isn't really all that bad.



Most photographers don't shoot for free, and most don't ruin the shots of the guests...so I guess you really aren't like most photographers.



Jul 03, 2008 at 11:28 PM
truthseeker
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p.2 #20 · Passive aggression for Uncle Bob...


I guess I shouldn't say "guaranteed". The six weddings are booked with $100 retainers paid, FWIW. All six brides are related to the bride or groom from this last wedding (vow renewal, actually). 4 are actually getting married, and 2 are vow renewals also due to them getting married in Hawaii with no family present (grooms were in the military). I believe my sentence structure sucked on that last one, but oh well. Anyway, I'm charging them $500 each. Still not much, but it'll cover some expenses so I don't have to be so anal retentive about Cousin Booby. There are no superstar models, unfortunately. I'm doing another freebie on the 12th (with any luck, the last one), and she's what most would call an attractive young lady, so we'll see how that goes.

I promise, I'm not a prick. If any of you think so, well, that's good for you. I've seen questionable crap from a lot of people (i.e. "I promised I wouldn't give out my photos, but I'm waffling about being a liar or being honest.") who are real quick to jump up somebody else's butt at the first opportunity. I value the input from the members here, but when it comes down to brass tacks, I don't answer to anybody but the client. If they don't like my strobe ruining their shot, they'll say so and I'll let them have their way.

Cordell, these people wouldn't have handled that well. For this "type" (now I'm stereotyping) of people, my way worked best. It was already a small victory that I didn't get talked into a shoot-n-burn. I respect your opinion and you strike me as a good person, but I just don't remember anyone walking that mile in my shoes. I don't think anybody realizes just how FAR this one was from a bride who pays $3000+ for a photographer.

Ah, and another thing while everybody's fired up... The bride for the next wedding said she wanted me to do it (obviously, for the price, who wouldn't), then 3 weeks later I find out she was booked with another photographer, and cancelled on him. Oops. I told her I didn't feel right about that, and she said he was "a jerk, anyway, and had too many rules in his contract". So I guess I'm a COMPLETE butthead at this point. It looks like I'm that guy that causes all the "How do I compete with free photography?" threads to get started. I'm changing my screen name (it has no deep existential meaning, BTW - just a holdover from some forum 10 years ago) to CARMEL BUTTERTHIGHS or whatever that woman's name was. Have at me, I deserve it.

Good night.



Jul 03, 2008 at 11:29 PM
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