bjhurley wrote:
Yep, it's the same tulip design. Sometimes it takes me seconds, sometimes many minutes. The film doesn't always engage properly and I have to retry multiple times. I'm not the only one; many people have reported similar frustrations with the tulip...I've only shot five rolls with my M2R though; we'll see if it's better after I've shot 40 or 50. Maybe it's just inexperience.
I follow the procedure as shown in this video. Just tried with another roll and it only took two attempts this time. The first time it appeared to engage, then the film stopped advancing when I cocked the shutter so I had to rewind the film and start over.
When you drop the film in, open the back flap and with your finger on the right most side make sure the film is seated all the way up i.e so it is not crooked in the film transport passage. Do NOT wind on the film. Close the back then wind on the film.
I have had zero problems w my M4-2, M-A, M6, M7x2, M5, MP, MdA.
Drop the film in as indicated on the pictogram:
Film leader in tulip:
Flip open the back - the film may not be fully seated:
Seat the film using your finger on the right side:
Do NOT wind on. Close back flap, attach base plate, then wind on. Seriously never had an issue.
The M2 still requires the old cumbersome film-loading procedure (I have the M2R; the R stands for "rapid loading," which was adopted in subsequent models), so you might enjoy the M4 or M4-P more from a usability standpoint. However, rapid loading isn't always so rapid. I was able to load my first roll of film in about 30 seconds, but when things don't go well on the first try it can take a lot longer; my third roll took about 8 attempts and 10 minutes.
I use a brightline viewfinder for my 28mm lens but it would of course be more convenient to have built-in 28mm framelines.
I think the M4-P hits the sweet spot when it comes to meterless Leica film cameras with a good selection of framelines....Show more →
This might be where I'm doing it wrong: the pictogram shows the end of the film leader just sitting inside the tulip, but your photo shows the leader going through two slots of the tulip so the end of the leader exits the far slot. The problem I experience when I follow the pictogram is that after I've ensured the film is seated properly and engaged in the bottom spockets and shut the door (and put on the bottom), the film doesn't engage when I wind on. I tried loading my current roll six or seven times and then gave up...I took it out and put it in another camera instead because I was so frustrated. It worked perfectly with my first roll, but every roll since then has required multiple attempts before it engaged.
bjhurley wrote:
This might be where I'm doing it wrong: the pictogram shows the end of the film leader just sitting inside the tulip, but your photo shows the leader going through two slots of the tulip so the end of the leader exits the far slot. The problem I experience when I follow the pictogram is that after I've ensured the film is seated properly and engaged in the bottom spockets and shut the door (and put on the bottom), the film doesn't engage when I wind on. I tried loading my current roll six or seven times and then gave up...I took it out and put it in another camera instead because I was so frustrated. It worked perfectly with my first roll, but every roll since then has required multiple attempts before it engaged....Show more →
It works for me either way. Just sitting in the tulip, or fully through it. For all M cameras that I have that use this system.
I think that your camera may be faulty - DAG would be able to tell you. If the camera is feeding film correctly, it really is that simple. It takes me less than 10 seconds to load a roll of film and be ready to shoot - quicker than any non auto loading camera that I have (Nikon F2, F3 etc).
Desmolicious wrote:
I think that your camera may be faulty - DAG would be able to tell you. If the camera is feeding film correctly, it really is that simple. It takes me less than 10 seconds to load a roll of film and be ready to shoot - quicker than any non auto loading camera that I have (Nikon F2, F3 etc).
I'm starting to think that too. I'm in Canada, so getting a Leica serviced is more challenging but we have a local dealer I can bring it to and see what they advice (I'd rather send to DAG than have them send it to Leica where it'll sit for a year. The dual-range Summicron that came with it is really hazy so I have to get that serviced as well. This is turning out to be not as great a deal as it first seemed. :-)
Huss mentioned it but the importance of the cassette not being fully seated is the cause of many loading problems. Some films will drop in, others need a nudge. I always make sure the film is connected to the rewind. It only takes a second or two to be sure.
madNbad wrote:
Huss mentioned it but the importance of the cassette not being fully seated is the cause of many loading problems. Some films will drop in, others need a nudge. I always make sure the film is connected to the rewind. It only takes a second or two to be sure.
That's a really good point that I missed; I'll pay attention to that next time! That actually seems like it's at the root of the problem, as I noticed that the film didn't move when I tried to rewind it a little.
bjhurley wrote:
I'm starting to think that too. I'm in Canada, so getting a Leica serviced is more challenging but we have a local dealer I can bring it to and see what they advice (I'd rather send to DAG than have them send it to Leica where it'll sit for a year. The dual-range Summicron that came with it is really hazy so I have to get that serviced as well. This is turning out to be not as great a deal as it first seemed. :-)
Don serviced my M4-2 in July. I found someone who made 3D printed replacement flash blocks and he installed it and adjusted it so it worked correctly. He also installed a M3 style lens release collar which actually does keep me from releasing the lens accidentally. He also replaced some small parts that a previous tech had removed.
It's worth it if you want a reliable camera.
It's always been the person who buys my camera after all the work has been done is the one that gets the deal.
rji2goleez wrote:
Thanks for some thoughts on film cameras. I admit that an M body is a preferred way to go. While I am not so well versed on the many differences between M series film bodies, I've been lurking around M2, M4 and M4-P with the latter perhaps being most attractive due to 28mm frame lines. The other concern is price point and these models fall within what I am willing to spend at this point in time.
Without trying to hijack this 'image' thread, I would love to hear thoughts on these cameras.
I chose the M4 in part because I hated the 50/75 frame line paring in my M 240. But I could have gone with an M4-P and had the 75mm frame line taken out and gained the 28. That said 28mm is a bit of a stretch in the .68/.72 finders anyways and I am pretty sure I could estimate if just fine with my M4.
But yeah, get the best deal on the cleanest camera and work from there. I got my M4 at a ridiculously good price.
ottokbre wrote:
I chose the M4 in part because I hated the 50/75 frame line paring in my M 240. But I could have gone with an M4-P and had the 75mm frame line taken out and gained the 28. That said 28mm is a bit of a stretch in the .68/.72 finders anyways and I am pretty sure I could estimate if just fine with my M4.
But yeah, get the best deal on the cleanest camera and work from there. I got my M4 at a ridiculously good price.
You're probably right about estimating the 28mm focal length but it was a factor in getting the M4-P for me as I like that focal length. I feel like I am getting a very mint version. I've only seen pictures but it looks better than any other M4-P I've seen for sale recently. Now, it's wait for delivery.
This is why we need a film forum. Now, back to some pictures! For the last year I've been processing Tri-X in Rodinal. Learned a lot and have been happy with the results. With that being said, it was time to try something different. This week is Ilfotec HC and I have some FPP-76 arriving soon. First couple of rolls with the Ilfotec weren't very good. The fixer was exhausted and the results were crummy. Exposed two rolls early this morning. Strong sunlight and lots of shadows. Scanned the first roll and will do the other one later. Rated the film at ISO 320, Ilfotec HC 1+31 for 6.5 minutes. Might try it at 200-250 next time:
M4-2, Voigtlander 35 1.4 Nokton Classic SC V2, Tri-X @ ISO 320, Ilfotec HC:
P.S. I like my M4 but it's the M4-2 that's used more!
madNbad wrote:
Don serviced my M4-2 in July. I found someone who made 3D printed replacement flash blocks and he installed it and adjusted it so it worked correctly. He also installed a M3 style lens release collar which actually does keep me from releasing the lens accidentally. He also replaced some small parts that a previous tech had removed.
It's worth it if you want a reliable camera.
It's always been the person who buys my camera after all the work has been done is the one that gets the deal.
Okay, I'll get in touch with DAG, sounds like a good plan even despite the cross-border hassles.
My friend bought this camera new in the 1970s and he used it quite heavily, although I don't think he has used it at all for the past 20 or so years (like me, he switched to digital). I notice that the mount is a little loose (there's some play in some lenses) and just yesterday for the first time I noticed that the shutter was starting to get unreliable; I shot a photo at 1/250 and it sounded like 1/60, not that short snap that you get at higher shutter speeds.
ottokbre wrote:
I chose the M4 in part because I hated the 50/75 frame line paring in my M 240. But I could have gone with an M4-P and had the 75mm frame line taken out and gained the 28. That said 28mm is a bit of a stretch in the .68/.72 finders anyways and I am pretty sure I could estimate if just fine with my M4.
But yeah, get the best deal on the cleanest camera and work from there. I got my M4 at a ridiculously good price.
I’ve had the 75mm frame line masked off on a bunch of my Ms so it only shows the 50.
A few from the second test roll with Ilfotec HC:
M4-2, Voigtlander 35 1.4 Nokton Classic SC V2, Tri-X @ ISO 320, Ilfotec HC 1+ 3:
Having looked at negatives developed in Rodinal for more than a year, these are nice enough but Rodinal brings a certain life to the images. I’ll try a few different dilutions and try dropping the ISO and see what happens. I liked the old HC-110 and was hoping for more of the same look. Maybe it’s like HP5+, a great film but if you like Tri-X it’s not quite the same.
Next batch is Film Photography Project FPP-76.
