fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Sports Corner Rules
Sports Corner Resource
  

FM Forums | Sports Corner | Join Upload & Sell

       2       end
  

Archive 2008 · Youth sports photography business plan

  
 
Jeff Martin
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · Youth sports photography business plan


I have been lurking here for some time gathering info and learning a great deal. I am in the process of writing a youth sports photography business plan for an investor and I have a few questions for the pros here. I'm trying to make some financial forecasts and would like to get a gereral idea of the income potential for this type of photography. I live in an area with a population of over 500,000 within 50 miles. I can go full time within a month. Another question is how much actual time do you put into the business including shoot time, processing, website updating and order processing. My wife is concerned with the amount of family time I will have when I start this business. I will have more questions later. Thanks


May 31, 2008 at 01:21 PM
kiz5
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · Youth sports photography business plan


Being able to go full-time with shooting isn't necessarily going to bring in an income at the same level as a full-time job. Sometimes, I'm able to pull in 5K in a month, while there's other times where I don't pull in $100 for a week of shooting.

With processing, website updating, and order processing, I process to order. I run through the photos in Lightroom, remove those that are OOF, lower the quality/filesize for uploading, and then put them up on ExposureManager. From there, they're just put into their game folders, and go untouched. When there's an order, I pull up the photo(s) ordered, and post-process them appropriately. Once you get to a point of shooting 500 photos of one game, and 3 in one day, you don't have the time to do each one individually more.



May 31, 2008 at 03:36 PM
cracejy
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · Youth sports photography business plan


My suggestion is not to do it......but if your going to start it do it on the side and build up a clientèle. If you can get T&I contract those are good money and you can do them during the week. Also branch out don't "just" shoot sports....otherwise your painting yourself in the corner. Most of the sports are on the weekend so try to get some week day gigs.


May 31, 2008 at 04:48 PM
P Alesse
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #4 · Youth sports photography business plan


In this day and age, with the economy we are in, it would be a very unwise decision to do this full time. Action sales are piss poor.


May 31, 2008 at 05:11 PM
Michael H
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #5 · Youth sports photography business plan


P Alesse wrote:
In this day and age, with the economy we are in, it would be a very unwise decision to do this full time. Action sales are piss poor.


the mighty Oz has spoken...
"piss poor" is almost understating things. I'm quite sure there are exceptions, but this has been declining for some time now. This year, it frankly has not been worth the time.

edit: to further clarify some, I've actually shot very little on "spec" this year, and have been driven nearly exclusively by request/contract. It's al about optimizing the time spent considering ROI.





Edited by Michael H on May 31, 2008 at 04:37 PM GMT

Edited on May 31, 2008 at 07:37 PM



May 31, 2008 at 05:16 PM
hklucas
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #6 · Youth sports photography business plan


Got to agree with Paul and the others....While my business has been brisk at times, brisk is not good enough to take the plunge full time. And, while everyone is different, family time has suffered at times at my house. I am lucky in some respects that my kids are older, but still, I am gone many nights and weekends....

Just my two cents.....
Keith



May 31, 2008 at 07:23 PM
leewoolery
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #7 · Youth sports photography business plan


Jeff:

I own a photography business that just happens to do alot of sports...youth and high school...action, teams and individuals.

In addition, I have a steady supply of senior and family portraits plus commercial assignments. Nearly all work comes from my contacts in the sports side of the business.

For me, it's a 7 day a week job, about 10-15 hours per day and almost 365 days per year which includes shooting, uploading, editing, designing, payroll, banking, accounting, meeting with clients and sometimes printing.

I have three part-time assistants and three photographers that I use from time-to-time as needed.

Depending on where you are located, you can do quite well with a sports photography business but I wouldn't rely on action coverage to pay the bills. The real money is with youth league and high school pre-season photo packages.

I do make money from action coverage but the only reason is because I use those picture packets as my marketing tools. My new policy is to only shoot action for a youth league or school when the entire photography contract is in my hands.

There are a number of labs around the country that can process your orders and offer very contemporary digital designs that your clients will love.

Much success,

Lee Woolery
Speedshot Action Photography

Edited on May 31, 2008 at 09:41 PM



May 31, 2008 at 07:41 PM
Hammy
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · Youth sports photography business plan


Of course I'll be different

I shoot almost exclusively action, and make a living at it in about 7 months a year.

Your wife has a valid concern about the amount of time you'll put into it - at least to make it successful. I had to make that choice early on into my business... When I was starting and only getting about 4 hours of sleep each night for about 3-4 months straight and our family was growing to 3 and now 4 daughters.

I had to narrow my time down from the 60 hours a week of my normal job (worked from home and very nice paying) combined with the 80 hours a week I was putting in to get things off the ground. I needed about 100 hours per week to do what I wanted to do in the business - as I was doing all the tasks. So which would it be...continue with the 'safe' job that paid well and do that for another 35 years, or commit to my dream and know that if it failed, then I know I gave it my ALL!

That was 7 years ago and we've grown every year from word of mouth alone. But it will honestly take more time than you're thinking, more money than you'll want. I'm not trying to shoot down your goal and vision - just know that you will get out of it what you put into it. If its still a hobby, then let that grow and keep your wife happy. You are DEFINATELY going to want her on your side ALL of the way.

Luckily, my wife has been in with me from the start. Mostly homeschooling for the first few years, picking up the accounting and now shooting for me. It turns out, she is one of my best shooters with the highest sales! She loves traveling with me and more and more we're taking our daughters with us. Sales are up, work is down, and it is really key to have the family involved - for me. I know other business owners who have spouses that shun any involvement, and it still works for them, but I think there is usually a different level of understanding (and income)

Your income for your area?? I would have no idea on that one... Sounds like a brick and mortar type operation with a static clientelle. My company covers shows nationwide and we'll be going international next year (if not before). I think it would be save to say that its a whole different advertising and marketing structgure that I would be qualified to guess at.

Again, good luck on your quest - keep asking the questions - the people are great here and it will help your thoughts along the way ... its exactly how I got started.

Hammy.



May 31, 2008 at 10:49 PM
kiwifamily
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · Youth sports photography business plan


Hammy, I have four boys for your four daughters (isn't that almost like a movie title?)

Having just started seli\ling action photos if it can pay for a few camera bits and pieces every year that would be swell.

Even the guys I know that do sports FT and are established with good business sense etc, have to do general purpose photography too to make ends meet.



May 31, 2008 at 11:53 PM
mill4570
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · Youth sports photography business plan


Jeff,

I will have to agree with Lee on this one. I don't know what income you would be leaving behind but action on spec is, to quote Oz "piss poor". There are many reasons; the economy is only one. As Lee has said it is a bargaining chip to gather other contracts. But good luck if you decide to jump.

Richard K.



Jun 01, 2008 at 07:21 PM
Joe Tames
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · Youth sports photography business plan


To Be or Not To Be:

3-day youth softball tournament. All pro photographers and pro camera gear available to cover every game (+/- 40).

Which option would you chose and why.

1. Print/Sell Photos On-Site
2. Pre-Sell Photos On-Site with Viewers
3. Pass out flyers/biz cards and direct parents to buy online



Jun 02, 2008 at 10:09 AM
luketrot
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · Youth sports photography business plan


To be able to do well your going to need to invest a LOT of money and a LOT of time. You will likely need help, ideally from family or friends you can trust and there will be a HUGE learning curve. I would wait until your photography business can double your day job's income annually for a minimum of 2 years before considering going full time.

Like Hammy has mentioned there is definitely money still out there to be made, we have done extremely well this season despite the recession.




Jun 02, 2008 at 10:29 AM
luketrot
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · Youth sports photography business plan


Joe Tames wrote:
To Be or Not To Be:

3-day youth softball tournament. All pro photographers and pro camera gear available to cover every game (+/- 40).

Which option would you chose and why.

1. Print/Sell Photos On-Site
2. Pre-Sell Photos On-Site with Viewers
3. Pass out flyers/biz cards and direct parents to buy online


All of the above.



Jun 02, 2008 at 10:31 AM
timgangloff
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · Youth sports photography business plan


"My wife is concerned with the amount of family time I will have when I start this business."

If your wife is concerned now, you will have issues. All of the kids sports I shoot almost always conflict with family time. Typically, all of those events will occur after dinner during the week and on the weekends, or at times you would normally spend with your kids/family. That's just the shooting times. You can do the other business stuff during hours that are not typically family time (after the kids go to bed).

I think the bigger, easier money is with Team and Individual pictures. You might need to compete for this business, but if you are good and provide good products at reasonable prices, you can do well. Shooting action pix solely on spec is tough. Some of what Hammy and others do, from what I can tell by reading the posts, is pre-paid action stuff, but not purely on spec. That can yield well too.



Jun 02, 2008 at 12:02 PM
njw
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · Youth sports photography business plan


Joe Tames wrote:
To Be or Not To Be:

3-day youth softball tournament. All pro photographers and pro camera gear available to cover every game (+/- 40).

Which option would you chose and why.

1. Print/Sell Photos On-Site
2. Pre-Sell Photos On-Site with Viewers
3. Pass out flyers/biz cards and direct parents to buy online



I tried #1 and found it painful. Bought some new software this year and am running option #2 and it's working quite well so far. I always have, and will still for a while at least, offer option #3 as well, and do find that there is SOME additional selling through the online system, but 90+% of orders are on site. The biggest fault with #1 is the amount of time you spend processing, when your clients are in a rush to pack and leave the event when it's done. They WON'T wait for you to finish printing the previous order, so you still need several viewing stations, and assisting staff. I did a Dressage show this past weekend, on my own, with 4 laptops (3 viewing stations) and took orders on the field to process this week and mail out. It's the best show I've done so far, and will be the most profitable for several reasons.

If you need more information, feel free to PM.

Cheers



Jun 02, 2008 at 12:32 PM
luketrot
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #16 · Youth sports photography business plan


Printing and selling onsite requires a lot of resources. Usually those who tell you it’s not worth doing don't have the software, hardware or staff to do it correctly. There are HUGE advantages with printing onsite that should not be overlooked.

1. Think about why people want their prints onsite. So they can show everyone the cool images of themselves or children. By offering prints locally your customers are now marketing for you.
2. Your product becomes $3 cheaper or you save $3 in s/h charges.
3. Less customer service, customers leave with a smile, you leave knowing your customers have received their product and are satisfied.
4. No lost mail issues.
5. A LOT less work after an event.

One of our contracts came to us because the previous photographer was taking 1-2 months to ship photos to their customers. The hosting organization was getting grief from their parents and had all but given up on the idea of photography for their events. However by offering prints onsite we were able to sell the idea of photography back to the hosts; a contract that has been extremely lucrative for us over the past years.

We run 32 viewing stations with two people printing and the most I have seen us get behind is 15 minutes. Customer are given tickets that are associated with their orders so they can come back at a later time for pickup. Free shipping is always an option for those who can't wait but nobody ever takes us up on it.


Edited on Jun 02, 2008 at 01:43 PM



Jun 02, 2008 at 01:40 PM
MichaelKirk
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #17 · Youth sports photography business plan


Jeff,
I only do this PT and limited at that. I will agree with everyone ese here saying that the times you need to shoot will (Murphy's Law) take place when your family time is. I have 3 children and have to balance shooting an event vs attending a game or tournament - guess which one usually wins (which of course is my choice), but since it's PT for me and most of my gear is "almost" paid for, I choose family time. The days I am shooting my wife understands it's an all day process. Up early to shoot - getting home late afternoon and uploading, sorting, some PP work and then to my website - getting to bed usually after midnight - but my goal is all in one day so not to carrtyover into another day of work (other than to fill orders).

Where I see the economy effecting me is more with commercial sales - Last year I had several publications and work from a few magazines - this year it's like ulling teeth to even get them to look my images (and it's not from lack of quality).

Michael



Jun 02, 2008 at 01:58 PM
Hammy
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #18 · Youth sports photography business plan


I agree with most the intentions of the softball gig:
- selling onsite
- try preselling - but not at the show...rather, before the show
- online will still bring in revenue to make it worth while - even (espescially) after onsite.

Every show I've done in the past 7 years has been on spec - with only one being pre-paid.

However, printing onsite has to be weighed. Luke knows my opinion on this - rather experience. I used to print onsite, but had to forego printing at a couple shows. Luke's point on saving on mail costs are valid - but NOT outweighed by the cost of:
- extra gear onsite
- extra consumables onsite
- extra setup onsite
- extra maintenance onsite
Those are additional time/travel items, here are additional cost items:
- staff to print
- staff to manage prints/customers
- travel for staff
- housing for staff
- meals for staff
- paying the staff

Customers marketing your photos - completely false. If you're relying on that, then there is a whole lot missing from one's marketing. I'm sure Luke has plenty of other methods for marketing, but I don't believe prints walking around are the basis of sales (been there, done that)
Customer service is more in my opinion, not only is there somebody to take money, but also to print and another to manage the prints so that when people come back to pick them up, they can be serviced and pix found.
Work after the event is certainly more - but that same amount of work done onsite in a couple days, can be done in less time after the event - because there are less issues to worry about. This may incur additional staff costs, but not all the transport/setup/maintenance/teardown of additional gear and certainly not the expense of travel, meals, hotels, etc... All those things add up to ALOT more the $3 per order.
Additionally, were still at work anyway, fulfilling (and shipping) web orders -under controlled conditions - no dust, correct lighting, no stress, etc...

The fact is, the e-commerce business is a multi-BILLION dollar industry and growing. And EVERY customer that orders something online, knows they will not get it for a few days. I'll be honest, in the last 4 years since not printing onsite, I've lost 4 orders because they could not take it home with them. FOUR.

I'm not saying all this in spite of Luke - he has a great business and its working for him. I started off in the same manner and had all those reasons to print onsite initially too. Certainly if it takes months to get products out, then there is a problem. And if the shows are small enough or local enough to justify printing onsite, then it can work out for you. However, if they grow to larger proportions and are nationwide, then you have to look at the costs/benefits associated with that too.

IMHO, selling onsite it HUGE - 5-8 times more than selling onsite. However, it does require an immense amount of hardware, software and workflow to match and meet the customer flow that each show presents. And ideally, this investment needs to be profitable: first of all, I think the IRS says you have to call it a hobby if its not profitable within 5 years, and secondly - according to my wife - the more the better!

Edited on Jun 02, 2008 at 02:29 PM



Jun 02, 2008 at 02:27 PM
Mike Mahoney
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #19 · Youth sports photography business plan


Joe Tames wrote:
To Be or Not To Be:

3-day youth softball tournament. All pro photographers and pro camera gear available to cover every game (+/- 40).

Which option would you chose and why.

1. Print/Sell Photos On-Site
2. Pre-Sell Photos On-Site with Viewers
3. Pass out flyers/biz cards and direct parents to buy online


None of the above
1 .. too much work for the time allowed, plus your post-processing is rushed so the product is often less than great, sometimes only snapshot quality.
2 .. best option but still not ideal.
3 .. waste of ink & bandwidth. sports action photos are an impulse purchase, and the potential buyers impulse is gone by the time they get home.



Jun 02, 2008 at 08:59 PM
shelby34_ns
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #20 · Youth sports photography business plan


Jeff,
I can tell you from my experience, there is money to be made at high schollevel sports, If I am willing to take every week ennd away from my family, I can easily make 600-700 clear in a week end. The problem lies in that Monday to Friday I have a day Job as well, My wife says she's tired of being a single mom. She's right the money's nice but it can't buy time back to spend with the kids. There is no easy way to earn a living in photography, you're always on some-one else's time table. Call me Will farell, but I'll stick to semi pro



Jun 02, 2008 at 09:30 PM
       2       end




FM Forums | Sports Corner | Join Upload & Sell

       2       end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account