Steady Hand has put forth the idea of discussion o "first impressions" of a photo, and how it makes you feel. My hat is off to him for that idea. A photo that can rouse emotions is a good one.
OTOH, there are the technical discussions of a photo - the effects of aperture, shutter speed, contrast, backgrounds and focus, as well as the lighting angles and intensities, poses and DOF. These are all things that are part of our photos. Knowing how these technicals affect our photos and our feelings will help us control our photos and will help us to take better photos that appeal to our emotions.
There is no need to choose between first impressions and technical discussions. They will both co-exist peacefully - there is no conflict. Discuss what you want. Make comments on either aspect of any photo seen here.
I agree that both are important, and we must keep our audience in mind always. Here, the audience are serious photographers, and the main impetus for posting (for most people, anyway) is to improve our work. Therefore I would tend to weight technical discussions a bit more heavily here. That's my opinion.
Which is not to say that impressions and first reactions are not important on such a forum. I believe they are a worthy and important part of the discussion, but in most cases less important in this particular milieu than the technical aspects of the photos.
I agree that they go hand in hand. But I think a first impression Is what sells you on a photo. No matter how technically perfect the photo is. I am glad that we can have both here. I welcome both the emotional and CC of my photos. I think it will make me think a little when pushing that shutter button but If I am too technical that emotional shot maybe lost to time forever.
2nd -
that is what I and many others here have tried to do.
When I first started I often would tell how image would make me feel even if I did not know why.
Unfortunately, I am not as skilled as some others in describing what makes a good or bad photograph. Being able to do so is an added gift.
Well Steve feel free to post a your impression photo..I am game I feel the reason people buy a photo is due to emotion not because it is just technically perfect. I have sold more photos of the perfect smile and look of a child with his dog or grandmother or parent than any technically perfect child sitting in a chair with perfect lighting. Just my thoughts.. take them or leave them. That said I still agree that you have to do some of the technical things also even if it means my camera is set to auto.. While I have not one bit of technical training in photography I have to rely on my emotions to tell me if thats the moment of decision to snap the shutter. If the camera is not set to anything other than auto. I have tried. I will say that I have learned more here at this site when it comes to the technical side of things in the past few months than I have learned in a life time prior to joining. I will continue to enjoy that part of the Forums. I feel you can never learn enough about what you are passionate about.
I think there's a place for both technical comment and artistic comment, but it's up to the thread starter to stipulate what they want and don't want from responses in their thread; we can all respect their wishes if they make them clear.
However, if someone just posts a picture without even so much as a 'C&C welcome' then they can't really complain if it gets too rough for them.
For the record, anyone can comment however they like on any of my threads with extra points awarded for witty comment.
Maybe, we should have a list of banned phrases, particularly the annoying, apologetic type of phrases people use when they know they're wrong but wont admit it. Phrases like, "yeah well, but the client really loved them". Every time I read that I want to strangle the cat
Jim Rickards wrote:
There is no need to choose between first impressions and technical discussions. They will both co-exist peacefully -
I agree conceptually with your point. However, in practice the two don't always "co-exist peacefully". If the first couple responses address technical aspects, then that tends dominates the trhead. I know for me, as an amateur (long time lurker), I can get a bit intimidated by the professional studio/model photographers who have an uncaany knack for spotting the tiniest of details. Not that that's a bad thing, it's part of what makes them good at what they do.
I agree with liahm - for someone who doesn't use makeup artists and hair stylists and is more interested in capturing a moment or personality, why not let them tell us what kind of feedback they are looking for.
p.1 #10 · First Impression vs Technical Discussion
I think both aspects can be very helpful. But if someone has posted a photo that was clearly a perfectly-lit studio portrait of a beautiful model in a certain pose, I doubt that person wants you to post about how it makes you "feel." On the other side of the coin, someone who takes lifestyle photos wants to be sure that they evoke certain emotions in the viewers. I think that people should specify in their posts if they are looking for only one kind of response.
I'm with Liamh. You can critique my technical choices, artistic choices, and your impressions. I need to learn to do things better technically. Ultimately I'm after your emotional response, but I want a good emotional response along with technical mastery.
p.1 #11 · First Impression vs Technical Discussion
I post the following to try to help others. I do not post this to begin a heated debate. Simply to tell my POV on this topic. It is all written in a friendly tone of voice.
I believe the original poster (OP) should state openly what they want by posting the photo here. That is pretty straightforward and simple.
IF the OP is looking for technical tips and needs to understand something about lighting, lenses, posing, or color correction (or any of the many technical details), then I think they should ask for help on those specifics. I have seen many posted threads that give no clue as to what the OP wants and when some people post technical suggestions or "critiques" the OP gets upset. Some do not even post any kind of dialog or even a "thank you." I find that poor form.
IF the OP is looking for something other than technical critiques (and I fall into that group) then I think the OP should tell the forum what they want. It may be they want to know how people "see" the image and that may have nothing at all to do with the technicals. I know that is what I am seeking in my "Impressions" threads. I have written extensively on this (to the enjoyment of some ).
For my part I suggest the following:
1. Post your goal in putting your photo on the forum. Tell the forum your "intentions" and what you want from the forum. Make it very clear.
2. If you want a critique and tips on how to fix something technical (such as photoshop tips), then be specific and provide basic technical info (lens, camera, shutter speed, ISO, lighting) and ask specifics (even in general terms) about what help you think you need or want.
3. I am going to start all of my Impressions threads with the "standard" topic title of "Your Impression? (specific image title)" so that anyone can quickly see that thread is an "Impressions" thread and is asking for impressions only (my preference). IF you don't like "impressions" threads, just don't click on that thread. That is simple.
4. My Simple Suggestion: anyone who wants the forum to consider their thread an "impressions" thread, just put that same word "Impressions" in the beginning of your topic title for the thread. That is a clear signal to others who prefer sharing interpretations instead of photoshop techniques.
I personally don't think it is wise to just continue the way things have been here on this forum. There should be no hostility by anyone on this forum. There should be no intimidation or bullying either.
I believe many people are just lurkers because they feel they cannot post "proof" of their expertise and they may be intimidated from posting anything that would not sound "smart enough" regarding photography and the technical aspects of it. I think the technical discussions are fine for those that want them. I also think there are many others who may not want to get technical and enjoy their photography a different way.
The development of a new style of thread posting (Impressions) will give an opportunity to many people who do not feel comfortable discussing photos in technical terms. This can only help this forum with greater participation and more value. I definitely don't consider this forum "serious photographers" by any kind of easy to see qualification. One can be just as "serious" about photography without having a focus on technicals. Technicals are only one part of the "picture" related to photography. The audience here is not all "professionals" nor are all of the "professionals" that post photos here very helpful to the other members (as I see it). Of course opinions on this will differ and you don't have to see it my way.
I hope people who want to get "impressions" here on this forum will be aware that they can have a "voice" and a "place" on this forum too.
I am here to enjoy photography and to help others when I can. I choose to request what I want from the forum in my threads just like anyone else can. My choice is to look for deeper and (to me) more interesting "views" of the images I produce.
p.1 #12 · First Impression vs Technical Discussion
For myself, I am a novis and trying to learn from this forum. Being a newby I find myself react to the emotion of the photo and how I relate to it first. But secondly I hang out here (probably considered to be a lurker) reading a lot of comments from others and trying to learn more of the fine points so I can inprove my own work.
Thanks to all the FM'rs for the great class you run every day.
p.1 #13 · First Impression vs Technical Discussion
Paul Krog wrote:
For myself, I am a novis and trying to learn from this forum. Being a newby I find myself react to the emotion of the photo and how I relate to it first. But secondly I hang out here (probably considered to be a lurker) reading a lot of comments from others and trying to learn more of the fine points so I can inprove my own work.
Thanks to all the FM'rs for the great class you run every day.
Keep up the discussions and great photography.
Thanks
Paul
paul i agree totally
being a novis as well sometimes the tech parts of threads goes over my head but what better way to learn than to contribute and ask??
i really enjoy the oportunity to express what a particular image means to me without haveing to take into account the lighting ,exposure poses etc etc
thanks for all who post impression thread
p.1 #14 · First Impression vs Technical Discussion
For me in every critique I like a little of both I think.
It is the way I try to, and artistic first for me personally. I have seen a lot of technically perfect pictures where I just wish the photographer had actually left a lot of black, or white, or clipped, the picture. And I've had photo's where I wish I'd focused on the eyes instead of the nose :-$
I think it is balance, as a photographer needs both skills, artistic and technical, to become proficient in this technical art.
As a second thought, I wish people could avoid being stupidly harsh when they critique photos, because usually the artist recieving the comments are starting out, and that can be discouraging, don't worry, if you're a pro, the new guy's not going to take your job, especially since he's in New Guinea :-)
p.1 #17 · First Impression vs Technical Discussion
If there's no emotional response or impression, what's the good of an absolutely technically perfect shot? Even a product shot should make an impression of sorts to the target audience.
Give me both!
My goal: make my audience smile or cry, and get it techically correct as well!
p.1 #18 · First Impression vs Technical Discussion
T-bone1 wrote:
If there's no emotional response or impression, what's the good of an absolutely technically perfect shot? Even a product shot should make an impression of sorts to the target audience.
Give me both!
My goal: make my audience smile or cry, and get it techically correct as well!
I enjoyed reading your POV...but I may be biased.
You are right about the potential for a product shot to make an impression.
Some do. Some don't. Same with "people" images too.
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