To expand on my OP, I have two local stores in Atlanta. My Client wanted a specific color seamless for a project. Store #1 sells one brand and Store #2 sells the other brand. I looked on the B&H website and saw that they sold the item for $40. A previous purchase from Store #1 was also for $40. I was shocked to be quoted $80. by Store #2. I'd love to buy local but at a 100% markup? Yes, they adjusted the price to $60. but does that mean that all prices are negotiable?
I think it is short sighted to focus only on money. Your long term costs just may not be any cheaper over the long run anyways when you factor many details like buying 5.99 items from B&H to save two bucks and then paying five bucks for shipping. Returns and such make it such a pain that the few times I have had to ... I wish I was not "penny-wise and pound foolish".
BTW ... my local shop if fantastic with prices. He has adapted to the market and has a much smaller retail presence but his prices often are the same as B&H's on the larger ticket items.
How would you gents like a future, five years from now where you drive up to New York to B&H to try out that new body? How about a step up ring or other fairly inexpensive accesory needed the next day because you lost it - in a mail order only world.
I'd rather pay a bit of a premium and develop a relationship over time. It has payed off well I think with bargains given me on great used stuff and much better than KEH used prices. And I get to try it out. I get to put it away, just on my word and pay next month or the month after.
Try that with B&H.
I always thought that as "professionals" we would understand the costs of doing business and that it is often wise to pay more for better products. The better product in this case is service.
Just remember, the cheap way out, driven to its natural conclusion - are prints done at walmart for $12.99 a sitting and prints. How does that feel?
I think we should support and be supported by a community. It will hep with long term survival of not just the stores, but the whole community ... including us.
Rocketball wrote:
If you give your small "mom and pop" stores a chance, many of them WILL work with you on pricing, you just need to be an informed consumer and ask. Too many buyers walk into a store, see the sticker price and walk away without asking anyone if they can do better on the price. If you don't ask, the answer is already NO, every time.
I went into my local Penn Camera store yesterday to buy some Think Tank belt accessories and a Pocket Wizard, but before I went, I did some research on line and knew what the best prices were from the larger on-line retailers.
I can't remember the last time i bought anything from a local camera store....i live in southern California with several large stores to choose from, but getting out on the highway, Southern California traffic and the time involved just make it prohibitive.
I buy all of my gear from BH, Ebay and other assorted online businesses.
Times have changed and the small mom and pop camera store just can't compete with large online stores.
Businesses who can purchase in large quantities can always get a price break.....I get them for my studio having a resale number which does allow me to get the price break.
Wal Mart has had a huge impact on the small store.
Its just the way society and business has changed.....loyalty only goes so far ......whether its photography, household goods or clothing.
grizz9 wrote:
Wow, which Penn camera. I have not had that experience at the Rockville store.
It was the Rockville MD store. It was the day after Christmas, and they were busy, so maybe I caught them in a weak moment. But hey, you never know unless you ask.
I paid the sticker price for the Think Tank gear, but they did come down a few dollars on the Pocket Wizard. In the end, it did cost me a few more dollars because I had to pay sales tax, but if there is a problem, I don't have the hastle of shipping , etc......
I will deal with my local store sometimes. Service Photo in Baltimore is about 45 minutes from me and I still make the trip on occasion. My problem is thus:
They don't carry things I need or want, and my other option is the ever pushy Penn Camera, who I have had poor experiences with in the 17th street and laurel locations. The only thing I really buy locally anymore is MF film.
cineski wrote:
I live in LA. Is it wrong that B&H is my mail order camera store and I DON'T HAVE TO PAY SALES TAX! Hahahahah! Sorry, couldn't resist.
Here we go again...If you are in business (you know with a business license and sales tax permit, all those pesky things), then you are required by the California State Board of Equalization to pay a Use Tax on items bought out of state, which is equal to the CA sales tax....it's line #2 on the short form.
I think non-business people are supposed to pay it too , but no one ever does.
Micky Bill wrote:
Here we go again...If you are in business (you know with a business license and sales tax permit, all those pesky things), then you are required by the California State Board of Equalization to pay a Use Tax on items bought out of state, which is equal to the CA sales tax....it's line #2 on the short form.
I think non-business people are supposed to pay it too , but no one ever does.
Yes, non-business owners need to declare their non-CA, untaxed purchases along with their 540. Vendors such as B&H are just begging for the CA FTB to audit their CA customers.
Times have changed and the small mom and pop camera store just can't compete with large online stores.
A lot of the "large online stores" are small stores in nature. If you pay Canoga Camera a visit, you'll be surprised by it's humble appearance both inside and out. They are the anti-Samy's.
cineski wrote:
Actually, that's true about different pricing under different salesmen. I once walked into Samy's just to check out a Beauty Dish Case, and it was $50 less than BH! I bought 2 of them. Only time that's ever happened, though. Another thing they'll do is go online to check the BH price. If it's out of stock, they'll give you an even higher price.
It all depends on whether your salesman's motivation that day. I've had guys who would quote excellent prices right away to make a sale, and I've met guys who quote me BS prices likely hoping that I don't know what I'm doing.
This is one of the reasons I stopped buying at Samy's. You have to be the car-shopping frame of mind when you go in there.
Edited by EltonTeng on Jan 16, 2008 at 09:26 PM GMT
I love living in Montana...I don't pay sales tax. On anything. Ever. . Just don't look at my property taxes .
I think Oregon is the only other state that doesn't have a sales tax.
I called the shop and they offered to return it. I asked if they would cut me a break on a rental for tomorrow since I wanted to buy the lens with the rebate which ends Sunday. They said no, sorry I was out of luck. Then they refused to accept the fact that both Canon and a separate service shop agreed with me that the lens had focus problems. They said "we have sold these for over 25 years and I have never heard of a Canon lens with a focus or any other problem". I told him that's not what I have hear or read and hung up.
Just curious...would B&H pay the bill on the rental? I have no idea, since I've never asked. If not, I'm not sure what the problem is...B&H would probably exchange it, but if you needed it soon it still would have taken too long. It would have been excellent customer service for the shop to get you a rental...but it would have been above and beyond what most little shops will do. If their price is already that low they probably don't have the margin to lose on a deal like that. It's not their fault the lens had a problem, it's Canons. They did offer to return it, and that's probably all they could do if they didn't have another one to exchange it with. Would the outcome be any different for a box store?
As for "we never had a problem" they've either been unbelievably lucky, or just never had anyone complain. Or they just don't sell that many lenses. Anything mass produced will have QC problems once in a while...L lenses are no exception.
If you need a Canon lens serviced fast, and want a loaner, CPS is probably your best bet...not much help if you're not a working professional though.
I go to a local store near me and they call me the BH guy because they match BH's prices for me (They say this very quietly though). I got my 5D and a bunch of L lenses there. The 5D was $50 more than BH but that was fine with me. I will also sometimes pay full price for things such as a accessories since I know that is where they make a really good markup. Paying a little extra for convenience is really worth it.
I would have been thrilled if they would have offered me a rental or even a discounted rental. I have puchased 75% of my equipment from them and expected a better attitude and service. But instead they treated me like the lens was fine and why was I complaining. They have other stores in the LA Area and are not that small of a place.
I am work fulltime at another job but also do work as a professional photographer so I am going to attempt to join CPS.
My problem really comes down to the store only had one, it was a bad copy, they failed to realize that and sold it to me anyways (see my theory at the end..), and they refused to believe it was bad. I was willing to work with them to solve the problem and eventhough they agreed to return it that would not do me any good as a customer. I am more upset with their attitude than pruchasing an uncalibrated lens. I am upset with myself for purchasing a poor quality lens that I didn't check out thoroughly in the store before purshasing!
From my other post when I asked for advice I am wondering the if my theory holds up...
One of their other employees told on my first trip there that the 70-200 2.8 with a 2X converter was sharper than the 100-400 and I should buy the more expensive combo. I read a lot of reviews and asked advice on here and decided they were upselling me so I purchased the 100-400. However after my experience I think that maybe he wasn't upselling me and was telling the truth. It is possible because the only 100-400 that they had in stock was the one I bought and it was worthless without some help from the factory.
I get my lens back from Canon today and truely hope it performs to my expectations.
EltonTeng wrote:
A lot of the "large online stores" are small stores in nature. If you pay Canoga Camera a visit, you'll be surprised by it's humble appearance both inside and out. They are the anti-Samy's.
Totally. Adorama is the same way, which is why I don't feel bad considering them and B&H my local stores: I see the same faces in every department when I go in, I'm a known quantity to the people who work the departments I regularly visit, and I generally get very good and personal service.
Adorama's store front is tiny, especially compared to B&H or Samy's. Yes, they've got an off-site warehouse now that primarily services online orders, but you can certainly see their origins as a local shop designed to service pros.
I buy online only if the savings are 15% or more over my local store. If it's 10%, I'll always support local... but I won't pay more than a 15% premium for good service.
I worked in Photo retail for 15+ years and eventually managed 2 family-owned stores. Small stores simply cannot move the goods to qualify for discount pricing. B&H and the like used to never have the overhead costs, it was a warehouse, and they never had to adhere to MAP pricing in order to pay for advertising costs so they could break MAP with their discounts and not suffer. I wouldn't call the local stores overpriced (MAP pricing is the Minimum Advertised Price set by the vendor, ie Canon/Nikon Etc, and is rarely higher in the locally owned stores), but rather the big stores as what they are, wholesalers. The benefits of a local store are staff knowledge and customer service, if they are trained well and compensated fairly, they tend to stick around. Call B&H and try and get technical and accurate information from them, they usually just want my credit card number and are gruff. Keep all this in mind as well when YOUR customers start getting their photos taken at Wal-Mart and the like, it works both ways. Price is what you pay, value is what you get.
But hey, you never know unless you ask.
. Just don't look at my property taxes 
.