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Archive 2007 · The death of the local camera store

  
 
Brett Socia
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p.2 #1 · The death of the local camera store


Alright, I have to sort of chime in on this argument. I feel it's something that needs to be addressed. I hate absolutely hate the big box stores. The only one I will go to is Best Buy (only for the rewards zone card, diggin the coupons you get for 5-10 bucks off). I hate the rest of them. You walk in and you feel like you are more of a bother to them than you are their lifeblood (oh how this would change if they were on commission). If I walk into the local shop near me Adray Camera (Troy, MI), you will not be stalked by someone looking for a commission. Instead, they feel that, if you're in their store you know what your looking for. This shop is a little different though, they actually have customers in the shop everytime I am there.

They are very helpful, have things in stock, and if they don't have it in their store, they can get it there from their warehouse (about 40 minutes south) for you the next day. Yes their prices are a bit higher, not much higher than the big yellow tag, but they will match em if need be. Plus they give a discount on most anything, but if you're going to give me a discount why not just mark it down 20% and call it a day.

They are the only ones I take my film to get developed along with the only place I buy my film. They also have everything you need if you have your own darkroom. The also sell all the leading 'pods and heads, packs, cases, lighting, everything.

I however feel the same about other mom-n-pop shops out there. Given the choice of going to the anti-christ Wal*Mart or going 10-15 minutes out of my way to go mom-n-pop down the street, I am going 10-15 mintues down the street. For me, there is just something more to it when you walk in the store, they know who you are, they ask you how you're doing, how your last vacation was. You walk into the anti-christ and they only ask you if they can help you, but is more or less comes across as "what the hell do you want".

Sure the small guy can't buy the volume of a national chain, but I'll bet you that the small guy will be there when something goes wrong with what you bought, regardless of what it is. It isn't just the initial purchase that's better, it's the service after the sale, that the other stores can't touch. Well they can, only after you pay an extra $200 and wait in line for half an hour, talk with the clueless person behind the counter, for them to tell you an hour later that there's nothing we can do, and thank you, come again.

That's just my opinion though, I am sure some others have had other experiences. But for me, I'll gladly pay a couple bucks more.



Dec 27, 2007 at 08:22 AM
Mike Mahoney
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p.2 #2 · The death of the local camera store


Brett Socia wrote:
Sure the small guy can't buy the volume of a national chain, but I'll bet you that the small guy will be there when something goes wrong with what you bought, regardless of what it is.


I disagree .. my experience with larger box stores and online mail order houses on returns & exchanges has been just great .. if there is a problem their return policies are generous and their turnaround times are quick.

Often the return & exchange policies with local stores is inconsistent and restrictive. And even if they manage to agree to a return or exchange, odds are they don't have it in stock.

One local camera store has this printed on all their receipts:
"Sorry, no returns on film, cameras, passports, or electronic equipment".

So if you buy a flash, get it home and it don't work you basically can suck eggs and wait for Canon warranty to repair it. Thanks, but no thanks.

There are very good reasons the small local camera store is almost extinct. In most cases good riddance.



Dec 27, 2007 at 10:17 AM
khaos
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p.2 #3 · The death of the local camera store


spanishbayonet wrote:
Small local business is what made this country great. Nafta and globalization of the economy may be inevitable, but that does not make it better. Have compassion for your local business, of which I am one, as well as many others here. Do you believe we can all get the pricing advantages of mega corporations? We provide service and commitment to our customers, which is what we all want as consumers.


No. What makes this country great is that anyone has the opportunity to start a small business. What makes this country great is that it allows for a competitive market whether it be between small businesses or conglomerates. What makes this country great is that a small business can thrive as a small business and also grow into a large business. What makes this country great is that I'm not stuck dealing with inept business owners who refuse to adapt and compete. I'm free to find the best product and the best service. That makes this country great.



Dec 27, 2007 at 10:51 AM
Rocketball
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p.2 #4 · The death of the local camera store


If you give your small "mom and pop" stores a chance, many of them WILL work with you on pricing, you just need to be an informed consumer and ask. Too many buyers walk into a store, see the sticker price and walk away without asking anyone if they can do better on the price. If you don't ask, the answer is already NO, every time.

I went into my local Penn Camera store yesterday to buy some Think Tank belt accessories and a Pocket Wizard, but before I went, I did some research on line and knew what the best prices were from the larger on-line retailers.

They couldn't move on the Think Tank gear price, and I already knew that, but when I asked if they could do better on the Pocket Wizard, the saleman asked what price I had in mind. I said, "Well, I know I can buy one today at Amazon.com thru Adorama for $183 and get free shipping". He went back and talked to the store owner, came back and said, "sure, we can match that". Done, ring me up and put it in the bag. Win-Win. I got what I wanted at the price I needed, and they got the sale.

I know it doesn't always work that way, but if you don't ask, you'll never know. Like I said, if you give them the opportunity to compete for your business, much of the time you will both win.



Dec 27, 2007 at 12:08 PM
Brett Socia
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p.2 #5 · The death of the local camera store


Mike Mahoney wrote:
I disagree .. my experience with larger box stores and online mail order houses on returns & exchanges has been just great .. if there is a problem their return policies are generous and their turnaround times are quick.

Often the return & exchange policies with local stores is inconsistent and restrictive. And even if they manage to agree to a return or exchange, odds are they don't have it in stock.

One local camera store has this printed on all their receipts:
"Sorry, no returns on film, cameras, passports, or electronic equipment".

So if you buy a flash, get it
...Show more

Well what I usually do when I have issues is call first, let them know what the issue is, tell them I am coming in the next day, allows them to get whatever they need in. It also helps you build some sort of rapport with the sales staff there. I haven't had anything but good experiences with the small mom-n-pop shops. When something is wrong I don't have to call up some customer service line, sit on hold, hope the dolt on the other line who is answering the phone somwhere in Banglidesh trying to tell me his name Bob, knows what I am trying to say. Then put it in a box ship it to god only knows where, wondering if I am going to actually get it back, then call up good ol' Bob over there in India again to confirm that they received my now even more broken equipment.

I am one for "instant gratification", patience is not really one of my virtues when it comes to relying on other people to get things done for me. I would much rather get it done myself. So I still stand behind the mom-n-pop shops.

I recon this debate could head in the same direction as a Canon vs. Nikon debate, so lets just agree to disagree, and just take some pictures...



Dec 27, 2007 at 12:29 PM
jnow
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p.2 #6 · The death of the local camera store


FSJ_Guy wrote:
The problem with franchise stores is that the quality is hit or miss. It all depends on the staff and it is hard to attract and KEEP good staff at under $10/hr and when the regional managers all have to bow down to the CEO's and other bean counters.

Stockholders want to see INSTANT profits and are not patient enough to wait a year to see results. Cultivating a customer base and earning their trust takes time. The bean counters want to count their beans NOW.



Hey, easy on us 'bean counters'. We have to bow down to the CEOs as well. The bean counters dont want to count their beans, the stockholders and officers want us to count THEIR beans for them. :P

At any rate, the local store here moved from a very bad part of town where they were a down to earth, knowledgable store, to one of the high-end retail shopping centers. The majority of their store is filled with accessories (consumer-grade frames, mats and gift items, stuff you would find at Michaels). Only about 30% of the store is dedicated to cameras and real accessories (bags, lighting equip, tripods, etc), and at that it is displayed poorly, cluttered, and VERY overpriced. They have a website, but no online sales or prices.

As others have stated, for immediate purchases and smaller items that aren't worth shipping, I will go there, and hopefully make an attempt to get to know some of the staff. Until then, unless they're willing to work with me, I'm shopping at B&H.



Dec 27, 2007 at 01:41 PM
Josh Evilsizor
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p.2 #7 · The death of the local camera store


I'm lucky to have a great local shop MPEX (midwest Photo exchange) They are a little higher priced on some stuff, but I'll pay it for the face to face customer service. Good example... I bought a flash I needed the day before I had a wedding to do. Took it home, and the thing didn't work! Had I bought it online from B&H or *insert name here* I would have had a panic attack.... But instead, I just drove back down the next morning and they replaced it, no questions asked.


Dec 27, 2007 at 01:54 PM
PhotoEdit
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p.2 #8 · The death of the local camera store


I love mom and pop shops and my favorite local camera shop (Pro Photo Irvine) is awesome. The problem is that with many small shops like this you either deal with some overly arrogant prick behind the counter that thinks because its "his" shop he knows everything. Or, you have the hired helper kid that couldnt tell you what a filter is. Finding the good ones like my favorite has really helped make things easy for me especially with renting gear. I buy 95% of all my gear online because of prices but I rent locally, print locally and when I want to try stuff out I always buy it from the local store. Im not the guy that will go in with my camera and throw it into 34 bags to find the perfect fit then leave and buy it from B&H I think thats rude.


Dec 27, 2007 at 01:55 PM
Dean Gillette
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p.2 #9 · The death of the local camera store


I'm lucky enough to live across the state line from one of the greatest family owned stores in the Midwest. I can walk into Norman's in Kalamazoo and talk to other working photographers, touch, try, and feel the equipment and converse with truly knowlegable salespeople under no pressure. Then I can drive home to Indiana, order the equipment from their website at very competitive prices and get it in a day or two (avoiding in-state sales tax!).
I drive 50 miles, past a half dozen "big box" stores to experience the personal service of Normans rather than suffer the disinterested and untrained salespeople at department stores. I'd gladly pay more for that service, and hope that my customers feel the same about the "value-added" service I try to provide to my customers.
Those of you who say "good riddence" to great little shops like Norman and Canoga should be very careful when you complain in other threads about Olin Mills and Walmart style studios and discount micro stock websites unfairly competing with your business. What goes around comes around.



Dec 27, 2007 at 07:03 PM
Shari Umpstead
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p.2 #10 · The death of the local camera store


We have a great local store here as well (North Tampa Photo) that I commented on in another thread here at FM when a member inquired about them because a buddy of his had purchased an item at a LOWER price than B&H (he thought it must be a scam).

Anyway, a big reason the "little guys" mark up is greater than the larger guys is the overhead many of them need to pay on their stores as well...if you consider the cost of the overhead for the storefront as a relative cost vs what the "big guys" pay, I'm sure it's a bigger chunk of the little guys' income.



Dec 27, 2007 at 07:19 PM
FSJ_Guy
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p.2 #11 · The death of the local camera store


jnow wrote:
Hey, easy on us 'bean counters'. We have to bow down to the CEOs as well. The bean counters dont want to count their beans, the stockholders and officers want us to count THEIR beans for them. :P


Good point. I stand corrected. A few years ago I was pleasantly surprised when my local shop had an RS80N3 remote IN-STOCK when I went in to ask about it. The Wolf camera near me is not an "Ultra" store, so they didn't carry it and I didn't want to drive an hour to Denver. I bought it for full MSRP because I needed it for a photo shoot on the Durango & Silverton that I was leaving for in ther next few days. Later, I happened to run into the wife of the store owner and I made darned sure that I told her about my experience and that I was glad they keep stuff like that in stock.




Dec 27, 2007 at 09:54 PM
Stripper
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p.2 #12 · The death of the local camera store


Dean Gillette wrote:
I'm lucky enough to live across the state line from one of the greatest family owned stores in the Midwest..........
Those of you who say "good riddence" to great little shops like Norman and Canoga should be very careful when you complain in other threads about Olin Mills and Walmart style studios and discount micro stock websites unfairly competing with your business. What goes around comes around.


Now we're talkin'! Well said Dean.

BTW, I have met a few good folks in the Norman in Grand Rapids.

John C.



Dec 27, 2007 at 09:59 PM
Terry D
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p.2 #13 · The death of the local camera store


dpmurray wrote:
I've used a couple of the local more-pro oriented stores (PPR Atlanta and Showcase) in my area several times when I come up with something on short notice I need or the kind of thing that, by itself, isn't worth paying to ship (replacement lens caps, body caps, quick release plates for tripod head, rocket blower, and so on).

It also helps when you aren't entirely sure what you are after - like on a flash bracket - to be able to go and hold something to find out how it works, rather than trying to piece it together on line
...Show more

SHOWCASE ... I lived in Hot Lanta in the 70's when Warren Steinberg started Showcase in a Fleemarket across from a Wolf's store. Man that takes me back.... Does he still own it, I wonder



Dec 27, 2007 at 10:22 PM
Terry D
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p.2 #14 · The death of the local camera store


These little mom and pop stores have something that you will never be able to replace... character. They are a ball to nose through... shelves stuffed with all kinds of goodies new and old.

They can be competitive, but it is getting harder. People will spend $10 driving around to save $2 ... that I will never figure out.

What drives my local store guys wild is when someone buys a camera online or a big box store and then comes in to find out how to use it...call B & H and ask em for a crash course in digital 101 and see what you get.......... click!!! Hello Hello



Dec 27, 2007 at 10:30 PM
SRK823
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p.2 #15 · The death of the local camera store


Hello guys, there seems to be some real basic business principals at work here. Ask anyone who owns a small business and they will tell you that the costs to run one are pretty strong. They can't compete with the big online wherehouses so to get upset with them is just not right. You don't know how much they need to make to just break even and a lot of them are happy to do just that. For every one that bashed them for trying to make a profit tell us what you do and let us decide if you're worth it. Don't bash them for putting their rear end on the line to open a small business, if you ever tried to run your own business you would have a totally different attitude. A store full of employees and inventory can't compete with a guy on the phone and another in a cold wherehouse pulling stock. Sorry to rant but one last thing, calling wal mart the anti-christ is a little over the line. They started out as one little store and do things better than the competetors so they grew, are they just suppose to stop doing business, tell that to the thousands of people who work for them, and if you were one of the lucky ones who bought stock in them along time ago you'd be singing a different tune. My local store has so many people come in with their camera they bought online, and get mad when the clerk won't spend hours trying to teach them how to operate the thing, common sense is becoming more uncommon every DAY!


Dec 27, 2007 at 11:32 PM
CTYankee
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p.2 #16 · The death of the local camera store


same discussion was going on years ago when the internet bike stores became popular. People announced the death of the LBS (local bike shop). Guess what, many of those store still exist. Sure many did close shop, but most were stores that barely got by or had owners who just were looking for an excuse to close down. I lived in a very non-biker area and of the 5 shops that I know of, 4 still exist. The one that did close actually sold to the biggest shop in the area and they then closed that store a few years later. They were able to change how they did business. The trick is to create a need. They did it by offering rental programs to try before you buy (applying the rental fee to your purchase), provide great service, lifetime tuneups, etc. Their prices were/are still higher but they don't compete on the basis of price. They do so by offering more than a thing you buy.

Camera stores need to do the same. The ones that do close are just not responding to the market. The manufacturers will also need to step it as they need the local shops (for service and support not to mention sales). That may be better enforcement of MAP (like Apple and Oakley) or offering lower prices to the best stores.



Dec 28, 2007 at 09:31 AM
RDKirk
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p.2 #17 · The death of the local camera store


I had to go back up and check the forum title. Yep, it does say "Pro Digital Corner."

That should mean that everyone here is either a professional or is speaking from a professional viewpoint. Which means, for the most part, "small business," because not many of us own the likes of Olin Mills, LifeTouch, Portrait Innovations, or Bella. So whatever we say about the "ma and pa local store" applies to us as well when we see a new Portrait Innovations open in town.

The Connecticut Yankee has told the truth. The big operations can never be truly custom and customer-focused operations.

Those "local" camera stores that survive and thrive are those that respond to our local professional needs, like Canoga, MPEX, and Tallyn's. They have also become online stores to gain a wider market.

To that extent, they're actually superior stores to B&H and Adorama, which--even though they are brick-and-mortar--have had to behave like big box stores to their local customers simply because they are so big.

This isn't different from what we must do ourselves. We have to find our own custom niches and also market to wider audiences beyond our local environs.



Dec 29, 2007 at 12:03 PM
SRK823
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p.2 #18 · The death of the local camera store


One thing I think everyone is missing is that the percentage of people walking into the local store are not professionals. They don't need what we need. If 95% of your sales are amateur photographers, well we know what they are going to stock. If I need accessories for my profoto lights my local store will not have put the money out for inventory on these items. They just don't sell enough to justify it. The money in the retail store is not coming from the professional market, It's the consumer market that provides their income. Unless your lucky enough to be in a large city where there is enough pros to justify the inventory it's just not going to happen. I went out to San Francisco last month, went into calumet and was in heaven, but they have the market for that type of store, very few markets do.


Dec 29, 2007 at 03:15 PM
dennisgibson
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p.2 #19 · The death of the local camera store


My local store (where I bought my first slr) just closed it's doors. I'm actually glad. The guy that owned it knew when he could take advantage of someone and he definitely screwed a bunch of people. My mother and grandmother went into his store about 3 years ago to buy a memory card for my mother. He sold her a 64mb card for about $60 and a piece of crap reader for $40. I wasn't made aware of this until a few months later so there wasn't too much I could do. This was about a $15 card anywhere online at that time but for some reason my mother stopped in there to buy one. I was pissed at the owner. I've since heard numerous stories about his slimy business tactics (some of which were told to me by a friend who is a cop in town) and I hope this guy never makes another dime selling camera equipment.

ps. Yes, I understand it's my mother's fault for not doing any kind of research but come on, a 60 year old lady and her 82 year old mother come in asking to buy a memory card and you take advantage of them. That's disgraceful.



Dec 29, 2007 at 09:37 PM
OO7MIKE
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p.2 #20 · The death of the local camera store


About 4 months ago my favorite camera shop on campus closed. The shop had been open for a few decades before it was purchased by a larger camera store. Finally it fell through due to lack of new camera equipment and falling interest. I absolutely love it because the guy knew all about all the old used gear he had. The old stuff was dirt cheap and perfect for any DIY project. The shop owner was so generous he let me borrow gear, test it out and see if it was worth purchasing. Until the shop fell through, I was a lifer.

This kind of customer satisfaction you just don't come by very often. Even though the mother store that bought it out merged all the gear with its shop, it just wasn't the same and the people are not very nice.

Its true, Mom and Pop shops offer a lot more than B&H can in terms of customer service but it is clear that they loose almost every time price wise.

www.michaelbrinkerhoff.com
www.thegreenphotographer.blogspot.com



Dec 29, 2007 at 11:08 PM
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