I had an early copy of the Mk III. Shooting bicycle racing, especially, I noticed all of the shortcomings listed in the many reviews and rants. I returned it to the local shop, even though I was technically outside their return window. (Another reason to have a relationship with the local.) They, needless to say, thought I was crazy.
Annoyed with the defective AF and the official reaction, I waited for and bought the D3. So here is at least one customer that Canon will find very hard to get back.
Jim I have one of both, BD and non. The BD is heads and tails above the other but I would call it far from 100%. Now compared to my M2 I don't know I would say equal. The big but is a nagging issue on two fronts when I do see a soft couple pictures in a series is it me or the issue? Second not that I buy a camera for resale but I hate to say it, it will have a stigma attached to it. Just like the poor corvair (long before my time) but it never recovered even though many loved the car.
I did not buy this as an investment but would expect to see a normal deprecation vs what I think will happen. If you bought a new car that stalled on the freeway when it got warm would you feel safe in it? If the MFG could not find the issue someone buying that year or could get the next year with out the issue will look right over your car even if you dropped the price to entice.
Brooke Clyde wrote:
I had an early copy of the Mk III. Shooting bicycle racing, especially, I noticed all of the shortcomings listed in the many reviews and rants. I returned it to the local shop, even though I was technically outside their return window. (Another reason to have a relationship with the local.) They, needless to say, thought I was crazy.
Annoyed with the defective AF and the official reaction, I waited for and bought the D3. So here is at least one customer that Canon will find very hard to get back.
That's sad and you might want to reconsider that stance. Yes, they may have produced a camera that isn't "perfect" (wink, wink), but Nikon weaknesses are legion IMO. The new D300 is still a smudge machine (they smudge the images to cover noise problems). I wouldn't touch any Nikon digital camera with a DX sensor unless there was nothing else available, and that was after I tried all the others...
The D3 looks good, but it's the ONLY camera they have. Their lens line up is very weak IMO. They finally are offering the sports crowd long VR lenses after 10+ years of waiting, they still don't have a good selection of fast primes, they have one "fair" TSE equivalent lens vs. 3 for Canon, their lens prices are often outrageous, yada, yada, yada.
Nikon as a secondary system? OK. Nikon as a primary system. Not a chance unless they become a different company over the next few months. Not gonna happen, so no thanks....
Jim Victory wrote:
I'm curious do any of the responders to this thread have the 1DMKIII? If you do have you had the "fix" done yet?
I would think you may want to judge whether the "fix" actually works for yourself rather than relying on someone elses evaluation. There are a number of well known wildlife photographers that have the Blue Dot and new firmware update and they all feel it performs better than the 1DMKIIn for BIF.
I have one I purchased in May 2007 and a recent Blue Dot and they both outperform my 1DMKII's and 1DMKIIn. I'm here in Texas where we are still getting Sunny 80+ days and neither heat or sun is effecting its performance.
Why not wait until you get your camera fixed and test it and see if it works. If it doesn't then rant all you want.
To a degree you have a point. However, I am seeing the same problems on the "fixed" cameras that are impacting me, personally, the most. The images that Jeff has posted on another thread clearly illustrate the blooming problems I am having remain after the adjustment. Sure, I can send it in when Canon gets around to calling me when my name comes up on their list and I will because that is going to be a necessary step in the legal battle that is sure to ensue. However, I have ample reason not to be hopeful and they have $4500 of my money that they got by making fraudulent claims about the performance of their camera so I'm feeling a little pissy.
To quote Canon's White Paper...
The new autofocus system of the EOS-1D Mark III represents a complete reconsideration of professional autofocus. In addition to a new sensor chip, sophisticated new manufacturing technologies have made it possible to reconfigure the concave submirror and the very clever secondary image formation lens. The result is greater sensitivity, easier and more logical navigation, higher precision and significantly better real-world performance.
Please forgive me Fred and Jeff, but to the above statement I must respond; Horse shit, just give me my money back and lets call it a day.
I'll guess that the camera will get better. Seems like the issues that remain can probably be fixed by better predictive algorythms for servo focus - read firmware.
I'll also guess that Canon will not offer a rebate. After all, no autofocus works perfectly. This may not be as good as the 1DIIn, but if earlier 1D series cameras had never been released people would probably be thinking the mkIII is as good as it gets.
I'll guess there will be a class action. A bunch of lawers will get even richer than they already are, and 1DIII owners will get a $200 off coupon for their next body - which will focus lots better than the mk III !
Last guess, most Canon photographers are not going to suddenly dump all their Canon gear and go Nikon. It took many years of superior products for Canon to dominate the pro market. Nikon has a few really nice cameras but still can't claim that the D3 is superior to the top of the line 1DSIII.
thedigitalbean wrote:
This is the part that confuses me. If you feel slighted that Canon sold you a $4500 camera that doesn't perform at the level their marketing had claimed and then failed to give you a refund, why on earth would you feel compelled to fork over yet more money on a future newer model?
I should add that I knew what I was getting into when I got my Mark 3 and that it performs really well for my uses. I am a little irritated that were I to try and sell it down the road, I'd probably take a bath on it now, but its only a slightly irritation since I bought my 1D3 with the intention of shooting with it, rather than as an investment.
Edited by thedigitalbean on Dec 11, 2007 at 09:18 AM GMT...Show more →
I don't feel "slighted". I am disappointed in the MIII, but in general I have a very favorable perception of Canon. Between my 1DMIIN, 1DMIII, and 5D I have three cameras that will serve me well in all situations. I have not seen any indication that Canon's problem with the MIII is a trend. If I felt this were a trend, I would be with Nikon in a heartbeat.
Of course, the other consideration is the money I have sunk into Canon equipment. I don't want to rebuild my current equipment list with Nikon gear. That by itself buys Canon another chance.
That's sad and you might want to reconsider that stance.
"Sad"?
I keep my eye on all this stuff, and of course might decide to change back at some point. But now that I'm in new gear, it'll be a harder sell.
The D3 looks good, but it's the ONLY camera they have.
I really only need one. Canon's very nice prosumer bodies didn't make my 1D2 any better for me.
Their lens line up is very weak IMO. They finally are offering the sports crowd long VR lenses after 10+ years of waiting, they still don't have a good selection of fast primes
Since they are offering the sports lenses now, it doesn't really bother me that they didn't 3 years ago. And I'm quite enjoying the 35/2, 85/1.4 and 105/2, though I'll probably swap that outfor the 135/2. The 24-70 and 70-200 are a tad rich ...
I'm an advanced hobbiest, and can afford let my pique inform my decision. And that's clearly part of it. Perhaps my calculations would be different if this were my living.
Here is what I have done -- I did not want to do this but Canon's "fix" is not acceptable and their timeliness is likewise not acceptable.....
Grover Larkins
Note to B&H, Canon and AMEX below:
******************************************************************
I have a Canon EOS 1D Mark III, Ordered from B&H Photo on 9/24/07. Out of the box it has had focus tracking issues.
1) I called Canon about this in the 1st 2 weeks of October 2007 and was told that they were aware of the problem and that a fix was "on the way" and that when it was ready they would recall all the cameras and repair them but that they were not accepting returns at this time. Check on the web site for any announcement is what the rep suggested. Since Canon is a reputable company I decide that everything is going to be fine -- I'll be patient and wait as suggested.
2) 2 November 2007 I see the recall list is being solicited by Canon and I call and get put on the list for repair. The rep says that they expect to start the repair process before Thanksgiving and that I'll be notified as to where and when to send the camera in for service.
3) 7 November 2007 or so -- no news on the list or where to send the camera so I call again to see what is going on. I am told that they added my name to the wrong list but that it is now corrected -- just be patient and everything will be taken care of -- Canon really is trying to make things right.
4) 10 December 2007 -- no response from Canon yet, comments on line at various web sites ( http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-8740-9068-9168 ) indicate that repaired cameras are still not up to the performance that is expected -- the focus tracking in the EOS 1D Mark II N is still superior to that in the EOS 1D Mark III. I call American Express (they are recieving a copy of this E-Mail via fax) and ask what I should do. I am told to contact B&H Photo and then Canon and if no resolution is found that I should file a dispute.
5) 11 December 2007 -- Called B&H Photo and they say (Moses in customer service) that they are not able to do anything since it is past the 15 day return limit for them. Moses suggested that I call Canon.
Called Canon -- finally spoke with Michael who could not refund the payment but offered to expedite the repair by sending me an overnight shipping label -- camera would be overnighted both ways but no idea how long it would take to repair it. Since I have no confidence in the repair based on the published commentary on http://www.robgalbraith.com this is unsatisfactory.
Called American Express and initiated a Dispute Resolution.
Called B&H to see if they would finally refund the money paid. Gabriel spoke with a supervisor and they said no. Spoke with Gabriel longer -- explained the situation he looked at the http://www.robgalbraith.com web site and said that he would file a written comment to the supervisor to see what could be done.
Summary:
In short, Canon was negligent in marketing a product that was defective, Canon was negligent in assuring me (and many others) that the camera would be made good in a timely manner and Canon has not yet (even after reparing the defect in some of the cameras) come up with a solution that works.
I, on the other hand, have waited patiently for 8 weeks for a resolution. Enough is enough! I want my money back, including shipping, B&H gift cards used and the AMEX charges reversed or refunded.
I am attaching a copy of the original E-Mail order Confirmation
radiodenver wrote:
If you purchased it, you are probably stuck with it. Unless some type of class action lawsuit is initiated, Canon is just gonna do what they've been doing and that is make them, ship them and collect money from the fools that buy them. All while pretending the problem is solved. I give it a 50/50 chance that many of the same problems affect the 1DsMKIII. Just hasn't been enough time to smoke it out yet.
Be careful on who you call a fool.
I am quite happy making $ with my Mark III....For the record, I was a Mark IIN among others (including Nikon) owner too.
BTW: I live not too far from Jim Victory down here in Texas.. Maybe we got the good ones or are too ignorant to know what a properly focusing AF system is.. (j/king)
BTW: I live not too far from Jim Victory down here in Texas.. Maybe we got the good ones or are too ignorant to know what a properly focusing AF system is.. (j/king)
I'm researching this now in Illinois. Generally these types of laws are unfavorable towards the manufacturer. So I'm somewhat optimistic that suing in my state I can get both a refund and attorneys fees. Canon has specific marketing claims and I have substantial evidence that those claims are false. I don't use the camera for its primary purpose because I have not been able to assume good results.
Will Canon do the right thing and offer a refund to those that want it? I doubt it. I believe there is ample evidence that they have "outgrown" the need to be honorable.
Unfortunately, I will probably have to also name my nice local retailer. That's too bad. They're nice people working hard to keep their "heads above water".
dcmiller wrote:
Fortunately, we have consumer protection laws.
I'm researching this now in Illinois. Generally these types of laws are unfavorable towards the manufacturer. So I'm somewhat optimistic that suing in my state I can get both a refund and attorneys fees. Canon has specific marketing claims and I have substantial evidence that those claims are false. I don't use the camera for its primary purpose because I have not been able to assume good results.
Will Canon do the right thing and offer a refund to those that want it? I doubt it. I believe there is ample evidence that they have "outgrown" the need to be honorable.
Unfortunately, I will probably have to also name my nice local retailer. That's too bad. They're nice people working hard to keep their "heads above water"....Show more →
If you are seriuos about wanting to sue.....don't do the research yourself. It will be a waste of time and money. Hire an attorney.
Why not wait until you get your camera fixed and test it and see if it works. If it doesn't then rant all you want.
Jim
If you haven't noticed that people who do not own the Mk3 rant, people whose Mk3 are working properly rant, people bought the MK3 knowingly about the 'problem' rant . I love my Mk3. Wish my FMers who have issues with their Mk3 have their problem resolved soon. However, you do have to use and test your own cameras instead of relying on other's test to tell you if your cameras are good or not.
nathanlake wrote:
If you are seriuos about wanting to sue.....don't do the research yourself. It will be a waste of time and money. Hire an attorney.
In the end, if you want to make a lawyer rich, sue. There will almost certainly be a class action suite - as I said before, you might get a $200 coupon when Canon settles - whoopee! If it went to court Canon would almost certainly win. They could simply trot out a Nikon D60 with a "properly functioning" autofocus - replicate the RG test and show that the 1DIII gets more shots in focus - 1DIII autofocus therefore works.
We are all disappointed by Canon in this, but don't get your hopes up that you'll get your money back or get your revenge.
In the meantime, if you do sue your local retailer you will probably regret it when he decides to quit the business. The old time photo store with knowledgeable staff down the corner is almost a thing of the past. Ah well, there is always Walmart.
I think RG has tested enough cameras to show us what is indicative of the 1D III's AF performance. The final report was with Canon's hand tuned cameras and with their supervision and still couldn't be declared a winner.
I not sure what sort of person would willingly buy a product that has generated so much bad press and was admittedly broken. This is not like a movie review which is highly subjective, this was an objective scientific test of multiple cameras over and extended period. The results are unequivocal. That any one would think you should spend the price of a good second hand car on camera on the off chance it meets your expectations - get real.
What amazes me most is what testing did Canon do during the development of the 1D III. The 1D II N was their benchmark and surely the issues of twitichiness etc even if the temperature problem had not arisen must have been noticed. Did real phtographers test the camera or just technicians in the lab and the marketeers ran with the hype of the white paper.
Maybe Canon should instigate a try before you buy scheme. You put a $500 deposit on the camera and you have 2 weeks to thoroughly test. If you are happy pay the remainder, if not return it and get the refund no questions asked. They should immediately offer a $1000 rebate for stuffing buyers around for so long and drop the price to a more realistic $3500.
And james99 are you serious about the D300 - I can only assume you think Rockwell's results are believable. You should cast a wider net. And to say the Nikon lens lineup is very weak is laughable. All they lack is a set of f/4 zooms.
What does get me and has really pitted my stomach is that Canon knew about this 100% and still released it. They said the camera, though a pre production model and some focus issues. This was told to RG in the first review. So they knew and I assumed that they would have fixed this before release. Not that they would release a broken AF system and hope nobody noticed? or released and would fix it later? That to me really is poor business. I am in a service industry and people are always shocked when I do what I say. Guess they are not in a service industry because they produce a product but guess I expected them to do what they said too.
Wickedfn4u wrote:
What does get me and has really pitted my stomach is that Canon knew about this 100% and still released it. They said the camera, though a pre production model and some focus issues. This was told to RG in the first review. So they knew and I assumed that they would have fixed this before release. Not that they would release a broken AF system and hope nobody noticed? or released and would fix it later? That to me really is poor business. I am in a service industry and people are always shocked when I do what I say. Guess they are not in a service industry because they produce a product but guess I expected them to do what they said too....Show more →
They apparently felt they had to get it out before the D3. At our expense.
- Good one!
. I love my Mk3. Wish my FMers who have issues with their Mk3 have their problem resolved soon. However, you do have to use and test your own cameras instead of relying on other's test to tell you if your cameras are good or not.