p.66 #1 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken
Glen,
Thats why I'm wondering if its me. You can get 50% (or so) keepers with an xxD body, I'm nowhere near that good. Thats why I question the camera vs. user error in my specific case.
Plain and simple, I don't shoot in AI Servo a lot. Most of what I do (dance) is more about timing than high shutter spray rates. I have enough photos to go through as it is without picking through a burst of ten or more images for each jump.
Any ideas how an AI Servo "newb" could go about evaluating the MkIII?
Glen_C wrote:
my first outing with a 1DmkII had 98% keeper rate (took over 200) w/ 70-200 (no IS) w/ AI-servo. Using 10D, 20D or 30D that ratio would perhaps be 50% at best (plus alot slower shutter allowing for more time between shots to obtain AF).
i can't imagine using a 1 in "one shot" unless you are constantly manually focus adjusting w/ the lens in AF mode.
p.66 #3 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken
Canon 10D wrote:
You should loan your 1DMK3 to RG
No way I love my cam can't let anyone even touch it. My friend has a 550xxx sn his works fine also. we do a lot of BIF and constantly use the AIservo. I wouldn't have bought mine due to all the negative stuff I read in forums until I had an afternoon playing with his cam
Here is a sequence I took of swans total of about 26 pics all full frame no crop but only the last shot as I liked it.
My google pages I got loads more but It suffers from bandwith problems too many hits. When its up you can browse. http://necipperver.googlepages.com
p.66 #4 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken
mbellot - ultimately i have no clue about the 1DmkIII. Seems like alot of really experienced shooters don't either, which is why it's totally off my radar (as much as it could replace my 2 bodies simplifying my gear for now). Maybe it would be great... just don't need that hassle right now.
Dance can be tricky, but imho pretty much anything moving & being tracked requres AI servo (unless you MF override on FTM lenses or spot focus a point waiting for subject to arrive). It will constantly focus waiting for you to pull the trigger. Maybe you just need more practice with it.... I'd really dig into AI-Servo with the mkIII, perhaps "slow" the FPS down (set via p.f or c.f, as well as play around with AF zone expansion and timings for the AF to jump/hunt). Take extra shots and just quickly delete them off. Or use lightroom to auto stack them based on time).
i REALLY would EXPECT a big improvement going from 20D to the 1D. i'd be quite
agitated if i didn't get it (assuming good lenses, technique, etc.). If the AF is locked on an area with contrast and the camera body kept stable with the ring of fire on the subject... why should Canon's premium camera not get focus?
p.66 #6 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken
apdieb wrote:
Are you focusing and then recomposing? The af point is showing which point was used...if you lock a subject and then move prior to shutter release, your review will show the point used (regardless of where it was when it locked).
Nope, I purposely stay on the subject to do this test. It's always one red square to the left.
p.66 #7 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken
My 523xxx has never been touched by anyone, and I still believe that the 1d2 I previously owned (20,000 images), grabbed focus faster in one shot. HOWEVER, after over 14,000 images, I have unlearned/re-learned the way the 1d3 acts and how to set CF's, and am very happy that I did not send mine in for adjustment, then mirror-fix, then whatever's next. The main difference I notice is that in one shot, the mk3 hesitates momentarily, grabs focus, then shoots all in about 1/4 to 1/2 a second. The mk2 will be done in less time without a perceptible hesitation. Also the mk2 won't shoot if it doesn't grab focus wheras the mk3 will, often grabbing something usually in the background if I automatically assume it's on the right subject. Still I like so many other qualities of the mk3 including IQ I won't give it up.
I have a question for apdieb. From what you said I gather it doesn't hold the prefocus when it takes the pic, or did yu mean it holds the prefocus but indicates a different point on the record.
momv630 wrote:
Nope, I purposely stay on the subject to do this test. It's always one red square to the left.
p.66 #9 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken
in the way of explaination. I previously had cameras that used the same basic AF system of EOS3, 1V, 1d, and 1d2, and had found the fine tuning I liked and a "feel" for when, what, and how, that system worked for me.
The mk3 is way different and changing expectations was a slow process for me and it took me 10,000 shots to become comfortable (not satisfied) with the mk3 AF. I set:
C.Fn III, 2 = slow
C.Fn III, 7 = +1 (global microadjustment)
C.Fn III, 8 = 1 (left, right expansion assist)
C.Fn III, 14 = 1 (AF assist beam fire disable)
C.Fn III, 16 = 10, 5 (continuous high and low f/s)
I also set
C.Fn II, 2 = 1 (high iso NR enable)
C.Fn I, 3 = H, 100 (expand high iso to 6400)
I find that if your not used to the III's AF and don't compensate somehow ( ie. slower to mash the shutter release), the camera tends to lock focus on a higher contrast subject in the distance.
If you're coming from a Canon body other that a 1d series, the mkIII's AF is impressive and you just get used to it without dimished expectations.
p.66 #10 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken
Necip, considering the fact that RG repeated the tests over and over with the same results (i.e. the MkIIn fared significantly better in each round), I don't see how conducting your test proves anything in regard to comparing the MkIIn and MkIII. If the test required the tested cameras to be mounted on a bracket with the same subject at the same time with the same angle of view, etc., etc. (to get 'valid' results), one could statistically assume that the MkIII would have performed better in at least one round of tests due to his 'inconsistent methods', but it hasn't.
I'm not discounting that what you are saying is true, I'm simply pointing out that it may not be relevant to comparing two cameras under the same environmental conditions, in my opinion. The heat being radiated off of turf fields (and other similar surfaces) has been a long-recognized confounder of AF systems.
p.66 #11 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken
Glen_C wrote:
i can't imagine using a 1 in "one shot" unless you are constantly manually focus adjusting w/ the lens in AF mode.
I do not understand this statement - can you explain?
Nor do I understand the various other references to the fact that "anything moving should be shot in AI Servo" - e.g. dance shots.
The Artificial Intelligence focusing system is intended to predict where a subject, which is moving towards or away from you, will be when you press the shutter button. The excellent Swan shots by Necip are a good example of where AI Servo is useful, if not necessary.
Most BIF shots have the subject moving across the frame at more or less constant range. When this is the case I shoot in One Shot mode. Why people shoot static subjects in AI Servo just defeats me; they are asking the camera to do something which is not required and can be counter-productive.
p.66 #13 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken
stan_g wrote:
in the way of explaination. I previously had cameras that used the same basic AF system of EOS3, 1V, 1d, and 1d2, and had found the fine tuning I liked and a "feel" for when, what, and how, that system worked for me.
The mk3 is way different and changing expectations was a slow process for me and it took me 10,000 shots to become comfortable (not satisfied) with the mk3 AF. I set:
C.Fn III, 2 = slow
C.Fn III, 7 = +1 (global microadjustment)
C.Fn III, 8 = 1 (left, right expansion assist)
C.Fn III, 14 = 1 (AF assist beam fire disable)
C.Fn III, 16 = 10, 5 (continuous high and low f/s)
I also set
C.Fn II, 2 = 1 (high iso NR enable)
C.Fn I, 3 = H, 100 (expand high iso to 6400)
I find that if your not used to the III's AF and don't compensate somehow ( ie. slower to mash the shutter release), the camera tends to lock focus on a higher contrast subject in the distance.
If you're coming from a Canon body other that a 1d series, the mkIII's AF is impressive and you just get used to it without dimished expectations....Show more →
Considering how many AF variables there with the MkIII's custom functions, you didn't end up changing very many of them in order to 'dial you camera in' over the course of 10,000 images. Only two of the C.Fn's above related to AF, and some of the others (as chosen) will only serve to slow your camera down.
I'm glad you have a functioning MkIII, but after everything that so many have been through with the MkIII, to suggest that some magical combination of custom settings will solve the cameras AF woes is overly-optimistic, at best.
-Jeff
PS: Do you know all those people on the street (and in stores) that you've posted pictures of on your Flickr account? You've got some interesting stuff there.
p.66 #14 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken
stan_g wrote:
in the way of explaination. I previously had cameras that used the same basic AF system of EOS3, 1V, 1d, and 1d2, and had found the fine tuning I liked and a "feel" for when, what, and how, that system worked for me.
The mk3 is way different and changing expectations was a slow process for me and it took me 10,000 shots to become comfortable (not satisfied) with the mk3 AF. I set:
C.Fn III, 2 = slow
C.Fn III, 7 = +1 (global microadjustment)
C.Fn III, 8 = 1 (left, right expansion assist)
C.Fn III, 14 = 1 (AF assist beam fire disable)
C.Fn III, 16 = 10, 5 (continuous high and low f/s)
I also set
C.Fn II, 2 = 1 (high iso NR enable)
C.Fn I, 3 = H, 100 (expand high iso to 6400)
I find that if your not used to the III's AF and don't compensate somehow ( ie. slower to mash the shutter release), the camera tends to lock focus on a higher contrast subject in the distance.
If you're coming from a Canon body other that a 1d series, the mkIII's AF is impressive and you just get used to it without dimished expectations....Show more →
there is a custom function for to shortened the shutter release time lag.
p.66 #15 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken
I wasn't suggesting there is a magical combination of settings, someone asked me to share. I also am amazed that, for my needs, the only CFn I have set that really affects AF is the side expansion. I have also decided I was lucky not to have problems as much as many have. I have, in the first 10,000 exposures, played with everything I could think of and took several other's suggestions on these boards, and boiled it down to just 2. Perhaps 3.
I even "borrowed" my old 1d2 for two days and tested extensively and compared. That proved to me that what I suspected was true for me. I could mash focus a fleeting subject with the mk2 and it would either not take the picture at all, or take it with a high probability of my subject being in focus. The mk3 has a different personality. It will often grab focus on something in the background if it doesn't grab what I was after and I don't discover this until later on the computer.
With either 1d I'm not convinced that the settings are so exactly for what is listed and not affecting anything else. There was a time before the latest firmware that it was suspected that if you had many personal settings chosen, they worked against each other. That idea seems to have gone away with the latest firmware. I have noticed an incremental improvement as each is issued.
The answer to the question, "Do you know all those people on the street?" is no. I am not an active pro and don't sell photos anymore so I tend to not worry about knowing everyone. I do try to not post pics that would offend anyone except my own friends and relatives. They are for the most part flattered and if asked, I take them off.
Have a good day all and I hope those of you having more problems than I and depend on your camera to make a living, will find Canon helpful in achieving solutions. I tend not to expect much from corporations towards that end. I really enjoy photography especially now that it's just a hobby.
p.66 #16 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken
Not new. I don't remember when expansion point assist started for one shot but I discovered it I believe on my film 1V and have used it ever since. Although not as much of an improvement on the mk3 as older models.
lidesun wrote:
Even for ONE SHOT mode, you still set the focus point l/r expansion, that's something new.....
p.66 #19 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken
stan_g wrote:
Not new. I don't remember when expansion point assist started for one shot but I discovered it I believe on my film 1V and have used it ever since. Although not as much of an improvement on the mk3 as older models.
I think maybe what lidesun means is that expansion is more often used when shooting fast action with continuous AF. When using one shot, we typically want to be as sure as possible about exactly where the AF point lies on the subject, so it can be useful to disable expansion point assist.
p.66 #20 · ['NEW Fix' UPDATE!] - MkIII AF still broken
apdieb wrote:
For now, the jury is still out...Canon may do something to gain my trust back...we'll see. I am not in a situation at the moment where I have to make that decision YET.
Well I made that decision shortly after the March 5 announcement. Still having Servo problems after the "fix" yet it's the best AF to date! My old EOS-3 did better. So I've sold everything at a decent loss and left Canon after 10 years, more if you count the years before I started using an autofocus SLR (Canon FtB). I got my Edsel back from the third service trip, and guess what - submirror not adjusted properly. So either: the fix wasn't done right, or...the submirror failed (again) after the fix. I can't trust the camera to take in-focus pictures anymore, so that's why I sold everything and walked away. (and on a side note, my backup P&S which I hadn't used in over a year was DOA when I got it ready for something during my cameraless time this month)
