You have no idea how many years I've worked in the industry or what level I currently work at, so maybe it's best not to assume anything.
The urls I posted were directly related to your statements about M$ "networking". Anyone in the industry knows what an oxymoron that is.
Furthermore, associates at my workplace have built, upon open source code, a product that far exceeds the abilities of this HP/M$ gizmo, which provides support for all current RAID levels, CIFS, NFS, iSCSI, and has virtually no limit to it's storage capacity and the cost for the software is $0. The only price of admission is the cost of the hardware. It all comes packaged with a web GUI that allows complete control over LDAP authentication, quotas, volume management, etc. Oh, and it helps if you have a bloody clue what you're doing. You guys should have no problem with it, and save a bundle, given your obvious experience.
And, on top of all that, I'm the guy bogarting that roach, so stop given' the credit to Gary!...Show more →
In one post you say you've got 20 years experience as your authoritative basis for your silly anti-microsoft bashing, then you turn around and hide behind 'you have no idea how much experience I have'?
Well, your silly positions tell me all I need to know. I see it all the time. Invariably at the low level supervisor, techie levels of an organization. Brimming with pride that you didn't have to 'pay thier prices', you build your own 'network', one that requires a full-time......mmmm....YOU to run it. Any real manager that let's folks like you build a network like that that a company has to rely on should be shot.
The WORST problem with techies is that they all fancy themselves as developers, you prove that point once again. More mature professionals control thier egos and evaluate commercial products objectively---once thats done they almost invariably install proven systems from vendors with a track record. Then you guys can go back to your highest and best use, fixing Betty's keyboard in cubicle B47 on the 4th floor.
Gary Harfield wrote:
Right, but if you are using them for photos, you should be able to handle all the other photo releated stuff on your own with no issues. I use a program called AllSync for data between drives.
So you''ve got TWO backup methodologies to manage? One that doesn't handle certain file types and sizes---and would suck up your bandwidth for days to handle any real volume, and another you have to manage separately.
That's EXACTLY the reasons that a server makes sense.
The HP product and Windows Home Server are excellent. And I generally hate Microsoft (I'm typing this on a Mac laptop). The OEM version of the software is available from newegg. An old PC is fine running the system.
A vastly better value than Drobo. It even does the drobo "add a disk" thing. (Volume expanded to multiple drive). You configure the machine and then remove the monitor and keyboard. After initilal setup it's manage through a web browser from any machine.
The Linux product looks interesting for a mixed PC/Mac environment. I'll need to look at it.
Data is not going to be a problem. Just leave the PCs on for a day or two to start to get the initial backups done.
I'm backing up a large amount of data over the internet to Mozy, if anyone wants to here about that,
Wow, this is a little like watching quadriplegics wrestle.
I'm in the consolidation of storage planning too, instead of my 3TB of external drives littering the floor. There are two schools of thought:
1) Microsoft Home Server. Everyone loves to hate MS, but I don't. If someone wants to buy a solution that's simple to set up, this might be it. In fact, it's tempting to have something like this.
2) Linux based appliances. They work well, but some people want to have that piece of mind of having a big named manufacturer and support to call upon. Yes, I know there's ample support for these, but there's a psychological thing here - some people want to pay for the peace of mind.
All of this depends on:
How much storage you need
Do you need it network accessible?
Budget
Before we get ourselves flaming each other over ideology, we should be asking those questions and then looking at the tools to solve our needs. Personally, I don't care which route I go, but I want to make sure that it works and works well.
If I wanted 750GB of space RAID 1, I'd look at getting the Linksys DNS-323 and throw two 750gb drives into it. That's under $600 or so, and allows RAID 1 and to be a NAS. If I thought that was too much work, I'd look at the Western Digital My Book series, which seems to hover around $500 for a stand alone box with NAS.
The bottom line is that we're all in the business of not wanting to lose our precious photos. Everyone's situation is unique in their own way, and at the end of the day that's what we want - peace of mind.
caveat: I've been in the IT gig for 15 years, currently serving as the man who has decision authority over all end user devices for a 7000 person organization. Not that it means anything, but internet bragging is a time honored tradition.
Johnny Bravo wrote:
In one post you say you've got 20 years experience as your authoritative basis for your silly anti-microsoft bashing, then you turn around and hide behind 'you have no idea how much experience I have'?
Well, your silly positions tell me all I need to know. I see it all the time. Invariably at the low level supervisor, techie levels of an organization. Brimming with pride that you didn't have to 'pay thier prices', you build your own 'network', one that requires a full-time......mmmm....YOU to run it. Any real manager that let's folks like you build a network like that that a company has to rely on should be shot.
The WORST problem with techies is that they all fancy themselves as developers, you prove that point once again. More mature professionals control thier egos and evaluate commercial products objectively---once thats done they almost invariably install proven systems from vendors with a track record. Then you guys can go back to your highest and best use, fixing Betty's keyboard in cubicle B47 on the 4th floor.
I certainly did not say I had 20 years of experience in the industry. That was GaryRoach. It seems that you must have been bogarting that roach, after all.
I'll also have you know that the open-source solution that I mentioned is deployed in the environments of many of our largest customers, including Banks, various other financial institutions, Gas & Oil companies, and some of the largest retail websites on the 'net. Our track record is impeccable and our business continues to grow. This product in one of many products that we have developed in-house with open-source tools and they all offer incredible value and reliability to a huge customer base, over many data centre locations, over many years. None of us need to be shot, thank you very much.
I never spent any time doing desktop support. I did do my fair time in a NOC, configuring and troubleshooting thousands of devices, including various types of firewalls, load balancers, servers, routers, switches, SAN & NAS, backup solutions (Veritas), VPNs, remote links ..... The list goes on and on. So, please don't try to "educate" me on how "real" networks are built. Alas, that was quite some time ago. Since then my employer has found better use for me at higher levels of the organization.
Actually they ARE servers. Not only do they provide file storage, but between them they also function as web servers, media (audio/video) servers, DHCP servers, FTP servers, print servers, plus several other functions depending on which model you choose.
Just because it's not as big as a traditional tower computer or a rack mount enclosure doesn't mean it's not a server.
It is hard to see at first glance, but if you change the graph to represent data flow at GB LAN speeds, you will see the MS product does quite well. Also on the site is a review of the HP Home Server.
AJ Nadershahi wrote:
Actually they ARE servers. Not only do they provide file storage, but between them they also function as web servers, media (audio/video) servers, DHCP servers, FTP servers, print servers, plus several other functions depending on which model you choose.
Just because it's not as big as a traditional tower computer or a rack mount enclosure doesn't mean it's not a server.
http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=509
This is the D-Link DNS-323 2-Bay Network Storage Enclosure. This is not a server.
Johnny, while these people are busy fighting each others, can you please provide me a link to this HP Home Server? And how much does it cost? Thanks.
Mufutau
Johnny Bravo wrote:
I purchased the HP Home server last week. 1TB of drives in a home server, running Windows home server softwear with some HP tweaks. I immediately installed two 500GB WD drives, which was wonderfully painless, so I'm now running a 2TB home server.
mufutau wrote:
Johnny, while these people are busy fighting each others, can you please provide me a link to this HP Home Server? And how much does it cost? Thanks.
$750 for 1TB isn't that bad if you're looking for something quick and simple to install. However, it doesn't look like this is Mac friendly (only XP, etc), so if you've got a mixed environment, this might not be for you.
Would it be worth writing up storage solutions ("for under $500", or "for less than 1 TB") and post that here? What gets lost in the debate is the how and why instead of the methodology.
thehawkins wrote:
$750 for 1TB isn't that bad if you're looking for something quick and simple to install. However, it doesn't look like this is Mac friendly (only XP, etc), so if you've got a mixed environment, this might not be for you.
Would it be worth writing up storage solutions ("for under $500", or "for less than 1 TB") and post that here? What gets lost in the debate is the how and why instead of the methodology.
I think a thread discussing solutions people have actually used...including prices, expandability, compatibility...would be great. Especially if the Microsoft bashers could control their hormones for a few minutes and discuss readily available solutions, instead of theories or DIY projects which are only for geeks who know LINUX. Hey, I consider myself a geek (been in IT since the early 90s...Windows and NetWare) but I have zero experience with LINUX (I think I have an old copy of RedHat around here, but I never installed it...I've still got OS/2 as well...why do I keep all this old junk?). I would rather spend a few hundred dollars more on something I can simply connect to my network than spend half that amount on hardware and spend a weekend (or two) configuring and then deal with troubleshooting an OS that I don't know...I need it to run, period.
The reason I've been following this thread is I've been on-the-fence what to buy for at least four to five months now. When I first started looking, it was just for my desktop, so I was looking at a USB2 solution (the DROBO). Then I thought, it would be nice to access it from my wireless laptop, so I started looking at network connectivity (I read recently that you can connect a DROBO to an Apple Airport Extreme). Now my girlfriend has a Mac, so I'm definitely looking for something that supports both Windows & Mac that can be networked (again, the DROBO is an option, but I still need to buy the Airport and I already have a Linksys router, so it seemed like throwing money away). It seems the situation just keeps getting more complicated.
I'm about ready to re-build my old Windows 2000 Server (I used to run my website from home, I've moved it to GoDaddy due to bandwidth and outages) and just put a RAID card in it...because I can't find a simple drive enclosure that meets my needs. I would like to start with two drives, RAID1 for data security, and either add a second pair of RAID1 drives, or migrate it to RAID5 to allow for additional storage while retaining some data security. I don't think I need more than four drives (probably 750GB or 1TB each). Since I knew Windows 2000 Server allowed Mac to write to the volume, I figured this HP Home Server would allow the same (I haven't confirmed that)...and it has plenty of expandability (both internal and external). Then all hell broke loose when the LINUX folks started bashing Microsoft.
I recently saw a Lacie network storage device that looks nice and seems reasonably priced...it's only two drives (available with 500GB, 750GB or 1TB drives) and I would assume (perhaps incorrect to do that) that I could hook up more of them as my storage needs grew. That wouldn't allow me to go RAID5, so I would waste some disk space as I grow.
I've searched Google high and low and just kind find something that I'm comfortable with...at a reasonable price. This HP Home Server is the closest I've found so far.
2) TeamSK Jay, our product is actually a stripped-down and reworked version of OpenFiler. There is no link to the product, as it is only available to our customers. I was not recommending it as a solution, but using it as an example of how open-source based solutions are often used by enterprises due to their combination of exceptional reliability/stability and cost-effectiveness.
3) I'll say it again, just so everyone is clear on this. These NASs are servers. Any device that boots an OS and can be configured to serve CIFS, DHCP, FTP, etc. on a network is a server. They are referred to as NAS (Network Attached Storage) devices, and an inherent quality of a NAS device is that it is a self-contained device with an operating system that accesses local block devices (HDs, for example) and "shares" that storage space via various protocols (CIFS, NFS, etc.) These products are much different than simple external enclosures, despite that fact that they look very similar.
BTW, CIFS stands for Common Internet File System, which is an open standard based on Microsoft's SMB protocol. So, in the end, these are little Linux boxes that you can create "Windows shares" on, with a simple web-gui to handle all the management. Exactly the same as the bloody Windows Home Server (but much cheaper and likely much more stable).
Forrest Egan wrote:
I think a thread discussing solutions people have actually used...including prices, expandability, compatibility...would be great. Especially if the Microsoft bashers could control their hormones for a few minutes and discuss readily available solutions, instead of theories or DIY projects which are only for geeks who know LINUX. Hey, I consider myself a geek (been in IT since the early 90s...Windows and NetWare) but I have zero experience with LINUX (I think I have an old copy of RedHat around here, but I never installed it...I've still got OS/2 as well...why do I keep all this old junk?). I would rather spend a few hundred dollars more on something I can simply connect to my network than spend half that amount on hardware and spend a weekend (or two) configuring and then deal with troubleshooting an OS that I don't know...I need it to run, period. ...Show more →
I will write something detailed this weekend and post it. Since I do assessments and writeups daily in the course of my job, it'd be helpful. I just hope we can keep it civil.
The Drobo solution is pretty interesting, but I would have liked to see a NAS version of it. Like you, I've got a lot of IT stuff lying around the house and am on the fence about investing time and effort to build a NAS solution from scratch or just spend the extra cash to avoid the headache and get something that's plug and play.
? 