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Monthly Assignment 52 - Reflections
Deadline: September 1st noon UTC/GMT
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Archive 2007 · Photoshop to fit the theme
  
 
Kalalika
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Photoshop to fit the theme


I'm a bit bothered by a few of the other submissions that are relying on Photoshop to fit the theme. To me it's sort of a slap in the face for those of us that have captured a truly symmetrical image. It's easy enuf to take any old photo and mirror it... doesn't that sort of defeat the whole "learning process" these assignments are intended for?

Am I alone in my thinking
Oct 27, 2007 at 08:39 PM
chas
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Photoshop to fit the theme


I cannot disagree here. I don't know that I would call it a slap in the face, but it is outside the percieved spirit of what the assignments area about. The idea is to capture an image, not create one. In my mind, this is not a graphics arts or digital arts assignment, it is a photography assignment. But the bottom line is that it is up to Fred and the moderators to decide what they will allow.

Charlie
Oct 28, 2007 at 11:53 AM
James Markus
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Photoshop to fit the theme


From the guidelines section of the MA.

"Montage techniques are allowed but should be functional and kept to a minimum. Your entries for the monthly assignment should highlight your photographic skills, not your software knowledge."

Notice that the prizes include Photoshop actions and plugins. There are differences of opinion on what is photography. This has come up in the past, and I will sum up the opposing views I've seen here on FM. The "purist" believes the photo should come directly from the camera with absolutely no alterations. No cropping, no changes in contrast, levels or curves...no adjustment to color etc. This is in spite of the fact that tradition photography using film did all these things plus many more. It also is in spite of the fact that the very act of framing a picture in camera violates this position.

The idea also exist that photographers are to be light scribes....recording as faithfully as possible the scene that they have found, or even had a hand in creating. Usually it is photo journalist that take this position.

There are those ("non-purist" for lack of a better term) that have a vision or creative image in mind, and will use whatever means they can to make a 2 dimensional representation of that 3 dimensional reality or non reality. This is not to say that the purist isn't creative, because they are...IMO.

Most of us will fall between these two camps, but there are some considerations. Each "assignement" is really two assignments...if you think about it. First, you have to create an image that will deemed a finalist by Fred. Second, your photo should have a broad enough appeal to do well in the voting portion of the assignment...by roughly the 300-400 people that vote on these things.

I don't always enter photos to win. I lean towards the non-purist pov, and will consider the assignment to be a challenge to create something that I have in my mind. I do equally poor with Fred, and the voting participants whether I do the assignment from a purist or non-purist approach. However, I think Fred is near the middle leaning a bit towards the purist pov. Personally, I think you should just enjoy everyone's enteries regardless of how they created them. For example: my entry had nothing to do with anyone else's entry. I did not do mine to offend, or cheat or take a shortcut. Fact is, I have a purist entry of the exact same image done in a single exposure + it was much easier to do...I just like the one I entered better.

Well, that is my opinion on this FWIW.
Jim
Oct 28, 2007 at 02:05 PM
Mark Speight
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Photoshop to fit the theme


I'm with Kalalika and Charlie on this, IMO its ok to enhance a shot by using PS or equivalent. But the final posted pic should be a tweeked version that came out of the camera. Using PS to create an image IMO isn't photography its digital artistry...

I'm learning every day about photograph and I love it, I use PS to enhance my work but I try to get it right in the camera. Do I succeed ? Sometimes......
Oct 28, 2007 at 04:57 PM
James Markus
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Photoshop to fit the theme


Mark, I believe all these opinions are fine. The only reason I responded is the assumption by the OP that using PS to a greater degree than his/her personal, arbitrary, and subjective opinion was somehow wrong, offensive, cheating, or (by implication) not true photography. I think the forum is big enough for both opinions, but I will defend the pov that uses more of the tool box available to photography than those who don't think that is right. For example; Screw on filters have been around for decades to change the color of the light, or to polarize it. Almost every digital camera today has an image processor that reworks the image before it is even written to the compact flash, SD, or other flash memory storage device. It's a mini PS version all wrapped up in hardware. Photographers have always used zillions of home made jigs, masks, and other darkroom techniques to bring to print a vision or to better portray what their eye saw, but the technology could not record. Dynamic range, for example, was expanded in analog photography using burning and dodging, or multi-contrast papers with filters, because the human eye has a far greater range than the media of that day could accomplish. Now, we have HDR photos...I love them all.
Oct 28, 2007 at 07:50 PM
Mark Speight
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Photoshop to fit the theme


I dont think its complaining, just putting forward a point of view...

Jim, you present very valid points and in some areas of our hobby (Such as HDR) I have absolutely no problem with digital artistry, I just think the WA & MA are not the platforms to show them. This is just my opinion.....

But as Trent says...let the contest go on...

Good luck to all..

Mark
Oct 29, 2007 at 01:18 AM
Kalalika
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Photoshop to fit the theme


Maybe "slap in the face" was a bit premature and extreme but that's what it'll feel like when/if a PS made submission goes to voting or wins.

Jim the difference between your submission and some others is that your's is symmetrical even without PS. You used variations of the same(ish) photo to enhance an idea you can create even without PS.

I wonder if it were moderated more would people try and be more creative with their camera and not rely so much on software for fear of DQ.

Thanks guys for your opinions








Oct 29, 2007 at 12:34 PM
Sheila
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Photoshop to fit the theme


As one of those who used PS for their entry (using the flood filter) here's my take. The assignments have always been about creativity. Your image is excellent but did you just spot the little girl sitting in the grass or did you place her there thinking that would make a good shot. If so, you created the image. I, like others, created their image using different means and areas of creativity.

If Fred feels that my image has gone beyond the bounds, so be it.

Cheers
Sheila
Oct 30, 2007 at 04:17 AM
Kalalika
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Photoshop to fit the theme


Sheila wrote:
I, like others, created their image using different means and areas of creativity.

I'm not bashing anyone's creativity. I enjoy Photoshop just as much as the next fella but this is a photography based site. There's a ton of websites out there for competition, honing, and showing off your creativity with Photoshop.

TRENTPULL wrote:
I believe you make a very good point about creativity being the prime driver of the assignment. Perhaps the unclear part of the instructions is just what is the prime objective - creativity, good shooting composition, PP skills, or what?

So, I maintain that it would be desireable to have a clear statement of the objective for the assignments in the instructions.

Trent

copied from Rules
Montage techniques are allowed but should be functional and kept to a minimum. Your entries for the monthly assignment should highlight your photographic skills, not your software knowledge.

Seems fairly clear to me but there is a large grey area that could be better defined.

EXAMPLE:
You may:
-use any feature of your camera while photographing your entry
-crop, rotate and resize your entry.
-clone out incidental power lines, twigs, dust specks, stray hairs, and similar minor imperfections.
-apply filters, effects, dodge & burn, and other tools to all or part of your entry, but NO new shapes or features may be created in the process.
-saturate, desaturate or change the colors of your entry or any existing object within it.
-use layers, layer masks, and alternative layer modes.
-use RAW conversion software.
-overlay two copies of the same original file and process them differently to enhance dynamic range.
-use software to correct perspective, lens defects, or minor misalignments.

You may not:
-use ANY editing tool to move, remove or duplicate any element of your photograph that would change a typical viewer’s description of the photograph
-use ANY editing tool to create new image area, objects or features (such as lens flare or motion) that didn’t already exist in your original capture.
-add graphics, clip art, computer-rendered images or parts of other photographs to your entry during editing.
-use distortions to create new effects or radically alter objects.
-add a border

Look people my only problem here is that it's not a photographic challenge to take a photo and edit it to fit the current theme. Aren't we getting away from the intention of the weekly/monthly assignments if we've spent more time in Photoshop than on the original capture itself?






Oct 31, 2007 at 10:34 AM
Tom Basore
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Photoshop to fit the theme


Here is my $.02. These assignments are subjective. Both the judging and the interpretation of the theme.

Every week/month there are several entries which are DQ because some people can't follow the simple rules already in place...img size, taken during the contest period, etc. The more rules the more policing needed.

Trent's response above is on target IMO, and yes, this isn't the first thread about this subject.

Lastly keep in mind that PS isn't anything new, post work has been done for decades. Check the ca. 1909 example below.




http://users.powwwer.net/ckds/kollection6/133.jpg



Nov 01, 2007 at 01:50 AM
Mark Speight
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Photoshop to fit the theme


Tom,

Im sure there are many examples of PS or equivalent being used from way back, but this is for advertising and not an amateur photography assignment . There are thousands of examples out there today and they are great. Each to there own place.

But is the WA & MA the right platform to show them? IMO it isnt.

Mark
Nov 01, 2007 at 07:55 AM





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