Hello all. Just wondering what are the best packs with the shortest flash duration for "freezing" people.
I have been using Profoto for 15 years but am thinking about changing as their flash duration stinks.
Unless you buy the TOP of the line Packs which I do not want at this point.
As far as I understand Elinchrom seem to have the best bang for the buc, are there any alternatives?
I get many times when shooting models jumping are hair blowing really fast, I get Blurness or my pictures are not as sharp.
Yes I know to have studio blacked out , no ambient light , ladiladadada.etc...
It all comes down to flash duration in the end and the Profoto acute line just does not cut it. Neither does the bowens or hensels I have.
So I am looking to other pastures.
Any body have any suggestion.
I am pretty sure the Elinchrom RX series are about the only option for the money?
Thanks for any input.
Snook
PS. I have also noticed that the faster I shoot and the "hotter" the flash get's the worse the "Blurring" get's.
When used at the higher power levels, the pack has little to do with flash duration - it's the flashtubes and cables. I believe you will find the Zeus 1250 and 2500 packs coupled to the bi tube head to provide the shortest durations possible (1/3000 t.5, 1/1000 t.1 at 1250WS) at this power level, at any price.
I recently did some scientific testing using a splitter to feed a bi tube from 325WS on a Zeus 1250 pack and achieved 1/5300 t.5 - 1/2100 t.1. I think this is as fast as you can get without endangering things.
Some of the high end packs advertise very short durations but if you investigate you will see this is usually at very low power levels.
I use the Broncolor Pulso A4 for short flash duration. They are 3200Ws.
Usually about $1,750 used, with pretty consistent resale. The Pulso A2 1600Ws are usually less used, under $800.
The used packs hold their value well and have a lot of other high-end features (sequences of up to 60 flashes, as quickly as .03 seconds, adjustable color temperature, etc.)
Here the the t0.1 times and associated wattage output
1/1000 : 1600Ws - A4 bitube : 800Ws - A2 or A4 single head
1/2000 : 800Ws - A4 bitube : 400Ws - A2 or A4 single head
1/4000 : 400Ws - A4 bitube : 200Ws - A2 or A4 single head
1/6000 : 200Ws- A4 bitube : 100Ws - A2 or A4 single head
Notice too that you can set the exact duration and then still adjust the power within a range at that duration. It is not just a byproduct of a specific Ws rating.
Are those measurements with bi-tube heads only?
Thanks for the info by the way.
I always Broncolor were good but thought they were quite spendy.
I need a kit for when I want to shoot with the shortest duration possible. re:
when I have models jumping in studio on a trampoline etc....
Thanks
Snook
I couldn't hesitate to register, just to make you aware of the Bowens QuadX. Very impressive flash duration. There's a test-pdf to find on the web at this URL: http://www.dito.se/pdf/Quadx%20testinfo.pdf
I suppose that it gets even shorter with the new 3km flash head.
www.bowens.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=309&osCsid=2819e6590e4544d2f5ec2400a7d62e16
Paul Buff wrote:
Zeus with bi-tube head yields 1/3000 at 1250WS, 1/1700 at 2500WS and about 1/1200 at 5000WS (t.5)
Note with Pulso you have to drop power to 300WS to get 1/3000.
Paul, that is *not* true!
You are talking t0.5 times with bi-tube in the post I just quoted here. The Pulso A4 with 1 pack gives you 1/3000 t0.5, 1/1000 t0.1 at 1600Ws, per my post above.
More power than the Zeus 1/3000 with 1250Ws, and of course able to dial durations down much farther.
You are talking t0.5 times with bi-tube in the post I just quoted here. The Pulso A4 with 1 pack gives you 1/3000 t0.5, 1/1000 t0.1 at 1600Ws, per my post above.
More power than the Zeus 1/3000 with 1250Ws, and of course able to dial durations down much farther.
I am not incorrect. The specs you are quoting are not t.1, they are t.5
As I read the Bron specs, Pulso A4 yields 1/1000 second t.5 with bi tube head at 1600WS and 1/1000 second at 800WS with single head.
This is close to three times slower than Zeus.
Grafit A2 (Pulso successor) yields 1/450 second t.5 (1/150 t.1) at 1600WS with standard head - again about three times slower than Zeus. Presumably it would be 1/450 at 3200WS with b-tube. Zeus achieves 1/2000 at 2500WS with bi tube, and 1/1200 at 5000WS, and 1/900 at 2500WS with standard head.
The Pulso is no longer in production so I can't qoute specs. I went to Broncolor site and downloaded specs for replacements Grafit A4 and Verso A2. They have a zillion models and I don't have time to research all of them.
Indeed, Broncolor publishes both t.5 and t.1 specs as follows:
Both of these are considerably slower than Zeus for the same power settings.
Grafit uses IGBT active tube shutoff circuitry to reduce power. As power is reduced, flash durations decrease. No information is given in the lit or the manual as to what durations are achieved at what power levels. Engineering comprehension indicates that at 1600WS both the t.5 and t.1 durations can be no faster than 1/240. As power is further reduced to 1/4 approximately 1/480 can be achieved. 1/1000 would be indicated at about 1/8 power (400WS).
Zeus with bi tube achieves 1/1000 t.1 (1/3000 t.5) at 1250WS thus is considerably faster (four times the power for a given duration).
Please set your Pulso for 1/1000 t.1 flash duration and see how much power is indicated.
You say Bron only quotes t.1. This is dead wrong - they publish t.1 and t.5 as I have quoted above. I stand by m info - it comes directly from Broncolor. I suggest you offer better research and accurate info rather than suggesting I am spreading mis-information, since my info comes in the form of quoted specs from Broncolor.
Here are the details from the Pulso A4 manual. Note that Broncolor indicates full power as a "10.0" on their pack. A "9.0" is 1 stop down from full. In this case, with the Pulso A4, it is 1600Ws.
I have the Pulso A4. It is marked explicitly in t0.1 times, as is the manual - only t0.1 there. My first post copied the numbers out of the manual.
I did the test you asked - I get an 8.8 at t0.1 of 1/1000, t0.5 of 1/3000. That is 1/5 of a stop down from 1600Ws - call it 1480Ws.
Paul Buff wrote:
Zeus with bi tube achieves 1/1000 t.1 (1/3000 t.5) at 1250WS thus is considerably faster (four times the power for a given duration).
Pluso A4 with 2 heads - bi-tube - delivers exactly the same duration - 1/1000 t.1, 1/3000 t.5 - at 1450Ws, as indicated by the "8.8" in the middle of the table below.
Grafit is as good as the Pulso A4 across the board, better on the high end (shortest duration.) It goes to 1/10,000 t.1, the Pulso A4 goes to 1/6000.
The chart you posted says A4 yields 1/1000 at "7.9 power" That would be 1.1f below 1600WS, or about 700WS.
It also says 1/125 at "9.8" That would seem to be about 2500WS? Zeus does 1/300 t.1 at 2500WS with standard head, and about 1/600 t.1 at 2500WS with bi tube.
So your pack does something different than the manual says?
These Bron specs are very confusing but do seem to correlate more or less with the Bron specs I quoted before.
If you really want high power and shorter durations, just get some new acute 2 packs with some bitube heads. that way you can keep your great modifiers.
I have never seen acute bi-tube heads?
Got a link?
Thanks, as I have all profoto stuff and would rather not change if necessary.
And I do not need the 7 series as they are to spendy for what they are.
Snook
Sorry I found it at B&H.. quite spendy though.. 1699.00 for the head..
Dang..:+{
Snook
Not much info on Profoto site. They specify 1/320 second at 2400WS and 1/560 second ar 1200WS. It is industry standard that when no other notation is given, stated durations are t.5.
This is not very fast. No info given about bi-tube head. With systems like this, the base flash duration at Full power is reduced as power is reduced, so the faster durations are achievable only at low power. Assuming these are IGBT controlled devices it would be expected that the t.1 duration would be roughly equal to the full power t.5 duration at somewhere around 40% of max power - indicating 1/560 second t.1 at about 500WS for the 1200WS model with one standard head. Perhaps someone has the bi-tube specs?
From Profot website:
Acute2R 1200 Acute2R 2400
Output in Meters (100 ISO)
Magnum Reflector f/90 f/128
Zoom Reflector f/45 f/64
Disc Reflector w/ White Umbrella f/22 f/32
Control
F/stop range 6 stops 6 stops
Ws range 1200 - 37.5 2400 - 75
Flash duration
Min 1/3200 1/1800
Max 1/560 1/320
Wow. I now know for sure that I wont be buying any of your stuff Paul....
Not only is your build quality much lower than that of your competitors, you come across as a real jack ass too.... definitly not who I want to support with my $$$ when I buy my new system this week.
Let's see: Paul Buff is called wrong and just short of a liar, vigorously defends the honor of himself and the equipment he has spent decades designing and that makes him a jackass?
No other company builds a product that matches the return on investment of his lines. And for sure, no one else is here and helpful in the meaningful way we see daily.
Paindoc wrote:
Let's see: Paul Buff is called wrong and just short of a liar, vigorously defends the honor of himself and the equipment he has spent decades designing and that makes him a jackass?
No, actually, it was asserted that Paul was wrong about the statements he was making about his competitors' equipment, not his own. No statements were made about Paul's equipment, and it was Paul who jumped in to hype his own equipment. Once again, using FM to advertise. As there was no attack, there was nothing for him to defend against. Go read back - it was Paul who decided that mmurph's numbers were wrong, mmurph defended himself against Paul's attack.
And besides, when a manufacturer of equipment posts here with an obvious business motive (selling their equipment), why shouldn't their information be challenged or verified? Do you take all other advertising at face value?
The poster asked about short flash durations in high power systems. This is a subject that very few on this forum understand very well, an one that is riddled by misunderstanding and a real lack of definative information on the part of manufacturers or posters.
Too bad there seems to be nobody posting here that actually understands these relationships. I don't post to sell equipment - I post to provide insights and to share my knowledge. I believe this is what the forum is for. If this offends some I'm sorry.
Decisions.