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Archive 2007 · •Nikons Announced: D3, D300, lenses

  
 
Tentacle
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p.22 #1 · •Nikons Announced: D3, D300, lenses


nikt wrote:
David, the fly in the ointment is its expected that Nikon will release the high MP camera early next year. Personally I hope they wouldn't, the market for these is just so small, I'd rather they concentrate elsewhere. But if there's a market then Canon and Nikon will try and exploit it I suppose.

That camera could be around the 22MP size. Then we'll have to listen to everyone talk about which one is 'better' blown up to 5 metres at ISO 3200.


The fly in the ointment to the fly in the ointment (sorry, couldn't resist ) is that Nikon's D3 sensor is taking up empty space in the market segment. Up untill now there was no high-sensitivity fast full frame low res sensor. They saw the empty spot next to the 5D and went for it. But there is much less space around the 1Ds Mk III.

Think about it... the 5D is 12 Mpixel, 3 fps and 100-1600 ISO range. Add a 12-channel output (instead of the 4-channel output) and allow for two years of ISO improvement (plus shifting the base sensitivity a stop) ... and you've "evolved" the 5D specs into the D3 specs.



Aug 27, 2007 at 06:29 AM
dcmiller
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p.22 #2 · •Nikons Announced: D3, D300, lenses


Howard Butler wrote:
Well, the way I see it, the rumors of Canon's death are greatly exagerrated. Nikon has yet to prove their product and even if it does prove to be awesome, it will not make the Canon gear any less good. Canon FF primes are proven, and in most cases work great or are slowy being phased out with better replacements-the lastest being their mediocre 14 mm.

Nikon, once a company that had the best Japanese SLR glass has fallen signficantly behind and are now trying to catch up. While having a better LCD is nice, not essential. Their ISO
...Show more

It is true that the reaction to the new Nikon products doesn't exhibit much critical thinking. Nikon has release some "clunkers". Their marketing claims since digital have stretched the truth more than Canon.

But I do believe that the wonder at what Canon has been doing for three years is valid. The MKIIIs are a refresh of a refresh. Is there no creative thinking? Pixels couldn't be increased and ISO improved one stop? I appears to me that Canon is more concerned with saving 10 bucks per unit rather than acting like the leader.







Aug 27, 2007 at 08:28 AM
nikt
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p.22 #3 · •Nikons Announced: D3, D300, lenses


Yeah thats ok with the D3. The Nikonians have been asking for it, even the Canonites did to provide competition to drive down prices. Just don't see the huge market for the high MPixel Nikons. Its so small that Canon has to compete with Mamiya and others. So I agree, I think it would be a waste of limited resources.



Aug 27, 2007 at 09:02 AM
David Estes
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p.22 #4 · •Nikons Announced: D3, D300, lenses


nikt wrote:
The fly in the ointment to the fly in the ointment (sorry, couldn't resist ) is that Nikon's D3 sensor is taking up empty space in the market segment.


That's true for now. I'm betting that Canon will respond 1st qtr next year though. There's been talk of splitting the 5D into two cameras. I didn't give that much hope till now. I can see that being a decent stragy now that Nikon has went full frame.

Of course, that is assuming the new Nikons live up to the hype. If they don't, then Nikon is left with egg on their faces and Canon may not be as inclined to change.

I'm hopeing the Nikons are everything they say they are. Then we'll start seeing some of that truely creative thinking that is going through the engineers heads. Although new features are great I want to see real improvements in glass and sensors. Noise, sharpness, IS, and dynamic range improvements shoud be top priority these days.



Aug 27, 2007 at 09:26 AM
Fred Relaix
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p.22 #5 · •Nikons Announced: D3, D300, lenses


ISO 400 and 640 from D3. Suprised by the noise in the 640 Shots compared with the 400 which IMHO looks nice (from Nikon forum) :

img.photo.163.com/j8fVYzqkiO60FaxdOeJWRA==/604045300021121953.jpg
img.photo.163.com/qa0sDfcMX7OvKoZXSiipbw==/604045300021121947.jpg
img.photo.163.com/WDPV9B3wPDRiNxd1OF1Q5w==/115123265476531791.jpg
img.photo.163.com/f70f-Z0Aj5IJnXFjyul7CQ==/577023702256894189.jpg



Aug 27, 2007 at 09:32 AM
David Estes
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p.22 #6 · •Nikons Announced: D3, D300, lenses


Fred Relaix wrote:
ISO 400 and 640 from D3. Suprised by the noise in the 640 Shots compared with the 400 which IMHO looks nice (from Nikon forum) :

img.photo.163.com/j8fVYzqkiO60FaxdOeJWRA==/604045300021121953.jpg
img.photo.163.com/qa0sDfcMX7OvKoZXSiipbw==/604045300021121947.jpg
img.photo.163.com/WDPV9B3wPDRiNxd1OF1Q5w==/115123265476531791.jpg
img.photo.163.com/f70f-Z0Aj5IJnXFjyul7CQ==/577023702256894189.jpg



I agree with you on the ISO 640. I'd love to see some of the Really high ISO shots from the D3.



Aug 27, 2007 at 09:42 AM
CKrueger
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p.22 #7 · •Nikons Announced: D3, D300, lenses


prof_fate wrote:
Are YOU going to switch brands is one question...some I suppose will, but then people do funny things all the time.


I've got this in the back of my head. I spent 15 minutes on B&H and came up with a cost of switching...

If I sell all my Canon gear (see my profile... about $8K worth of stuff, including a 5D, 350D, two flashes, and 16 lenses) and re-buy equivalents in Nikon format, the transition will cost me $2655 plus PayPal/shipping fees, given FM B&S Forum prices.

That will give me a D3 and a D40x, with all the "same" lenses. If I instead buy a D3 and D300 like I'd prefer, and started from scratch with a kit I actually want instead of already have the transition would cost me $1970.

And if I knocked it down to just the equipment I need (D3, D40x, SB-600, Nikon 18-200VR and 80-400VR, Tam 17-35 and 28-75), the transition would cost me $480. (I could even "make" $10 on the conversion if I replaced the 18-200VR with an 18-135 kit lens...)

All meaningless numbers to anyone else but me, but I was actually surprised how little it would cost me to convert, given that I'd be buying a $5k body. The only downsides to me would be a heavier FF body (livable considering it's essentially a 5D + 1DMk3 rolled into one...) and the inability to use some old manual lenses... I really do love my little OM primes, and would be disappointed to lose them.

So, where does it leave me? I'm going to sit on this idea. I'm going to watch how the D3 and D300 fare when they are released. How's ISO6400? Any banding issues? Any issues at all? If the release goes well and ISO6400 is at least as good as the 1DMk3, I'll look at Canon. If Canon makes a 5D with 45-point AF, >=4fps, >=12MPixel, and either at least one stop better ISO performance than Nikon or an in-body IS, I'll buy that and stick with Canon. But if they put out a 5D with their usual small incremental feature bumping (say, 16-point AF, 4fps, 16MPixel, ISO6400 at 1DMk3 levels).... I'll most likely switch to Nikon.

Before you ask, I'm happy with my 5D. It's a wonderful camera. But I long for better high ISO performance, in-body IS (the former for faster shutter speeds, the latter to compensate for my shaky hands), and a single camera that can tackle both my nighttime sports and general photography needs. The D3 has no in-body VR, but it might have better ISO performance, and it definitely will be a great sports camera for my nighttime auto racing photos.

If you look at Canon for the past three years (1D2->20D->1DsMk2->5D->1D2N->30D->1DMk3), it's clear they're having trouble improving their ISO performance significantly. And looking at their nickel-and-diming releases, it seems they're not about to give us a full-on camera that can do everything, either. (To me, "everything" = full frame and the best AF and frame rate possible.) Meanwhile, Nikon seems to be throwing everything they've got at every body (above the bargain bodies, at least), and they've finally introduced a body (D3) that--if it lives up to its specs (and I'm skeptical of course)--looks to be both a big upgrade to my 5D, and a 1DMk3-beater rolled into one.

In short, I'm going to be looking very carefully at Canon's response to the D3, if the D3 ends up being as good as it looks on paper. Canon has one chance to knock my socks off with a 5D replacement (I'm talking ISO6400 and in-body IS, or two more stops ISO performance), and they have to do it very soon.

I don't think that makes me soulless or a traitor or a fool. I don't throw money around lightly (it took me six months to justify a LensBaby!), and I know there's a "risk" I might end up switching back, or regretting my choice. But as it looks on paper, the D3 looks like the camera of my dreams, and I'm skeptical Canon can/will do anything to match it with all their brand-new bodies crowding a competitor out of their product lineup.



Aug 27, 2007 at 09:48 AM
Jordan Roberts
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p.22 #8 · •Nikons Announced: D3, D300, lenses


i think the 640 iso shots are missing a 0


Aug 27, 2007 at 09:49 AM
arashm
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p.22 #9 · •Nikons Announced: D3, D300, lenses


Jordan...
I agree I don't think they look right for JUST 640...



Aug 27, 2007 at 09:55 AM
bearcat
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p.22 #10 · •Nikons Announced: D3, D300, lenses


MPerdomo wrote:
If someone said the same thing about a D200 successor 3 months ago that trounced the D2X, i'd tell them the same thing. Nikon doesn't seem to play the same games that Canon does with rigid partitions between pro and non-pro gear

If the full frame chips get cheaper, I think it will happen


This is one of the most important differences between the two companies at this point in time. With the exception of the 400, which in some important features outshone the 30D, Canon seems obsessed with coherent product management.

"Product A costs $xxx and product B costs $xxxx, so we better make sure there is a long list of features not in A that you can have in B. Even though it would cost us very little to put those features in A, we must at all costs not hurt the sales of product B."

I'm really sick of that. Companies that have their backs to the wall like Nikon did several years care much more about making a "hit." Simply, "what is the best and most compelling camera that we can make at this price point?"

Canon just assumes that their cameras will be market leaders, so it is not as concerned with cameras that are big hits (they assume they will be), only with ways to maximize profits across their product line.

Canon's method only works when you have a clear leadership position due to technology or installed user base or name recognition or whatever. It is an attitude that is very quickly becoming obsolete with the advances made by Nikon, and they should change it pronto.



Aug 27, 2007 at 10:07 AM
Fred Relaix
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p.22 #11 · •Nikons Announced: D3, D300, lenses


arashm wrote:
Jordan...
I agree I don't think they look right for JUST 640...


As posted on the Nikon forum (hey maybe it is time to fuse the 2 or make C/N joint forums!) :

Coolmac wrote:
Both are at f/2.8 and 1/500th of a second.

So I doubt that they jumped to 6400, unless the stadiums lights suddenly dropped to 1/16th power.

And since the 400 had an exposure bias of -0.33 it makes sense.




Aug 27, 2007 at 10:22 AM
Ron Hew
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p.22 #12 · •Nikons Announced: D3, D300, lenses


Fred Relaix wrote:
As posted on the Nikon forum (hey maybe it is time to fuse the 2 or make C/N joint forums!) :



They must be making a bad joke from Nikon. Huh? If that is what D3 is capable for ISO 640, then I would stick to my 1D3 for another 2 years



Aug 27, 2007 at 10:32 AM
dasrocket
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p.22 #13 · •Nikons Announced: D3, D300, lenses


...I find it amazing to hear all these very educated and correct opinions on which camera is better etc. without ever holding either ar taking even one picture with them!
Eventually the cameras will come out and some will buy this, some that...but It seems these photo giants win and lose PR wars via text alone!

...just though it was interesting, that's all!



Aug 27, 2007 at 10:55 AM
Bruce Sawle
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p.22 #14 · •Nikons Announced: D3, D300, lenses


Posted from another site here is the D300 ISO 6400 shots I hope for nikion sake these are a joke posting

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slrclub.com%2Fbbs%2Fvx2.php%3Fid%3Dnewproduct%26page%3D1%26sn1%3D%26sid1%3D%26divpage%3D4%26sn%3Doff%26sid%3Doff%26ss%3Don%26sc%3Doff%26select_arrange%3Dheadnum%26desc%3Dasc%26no%3D20929&langpair=ko%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8

Copy and paste the link

Here is teh original post over at the canon digital forums site

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=367261&page=10



Aug 27, 2007 at 11:15 AM
drdrew
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p.22 #15 · •Nikons Announced: D3, D300, lenses


The impression is anxious the centipede bedspread ------


Aug 27, 2007 at 11:49 AM
dcmiller
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p.22 #16 · •Nikons Announced: D3, D300, lenses


I wouldn't pay attention to those files. There are some D3 pic starting to appear from the event in Osaka. The images are the right size and the exif says D3 ISO 3200. The images are perfectly usable professionally and have low chroma noise. The images are also crude compared to my 1DIII under similar television lighting. If these images are real and typical, Nikon is doing some heavy post-processing in camera. I expect low ISO shots will be much nicer.

Edited by dcmiller on Aug 27, 2007 at 12:16 PM GMT (Reason: 3200)



Aug 27, 2007 at 12:45 PM
dcmiller
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p.22 #17 · •Nikons Announced: D3, D300, lenses


From Thom Hogan:

Does the D300 really drop to 2.5 fps when using 14-bit NEFs?
While none of Nikon's current published documentation suggest this, it does appear that the Nikon subsidiaries have been verifying that: frame rate drops on the D300 if you shoot 14-bit NEFs.

oops 2.5 fps

This probability plus the D3 ISO 3200 images? I say let the bashing begin!! That's the natural order of things anyways. We pick out the deficiencies here. The Nikon guys praise the camera strength over on their forum.



Aug 27, 2007 at 01:09 PM
Tentacle
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p.22 #18 · •Nikons Announced: D3, D300, lenses


Hmmm ... any more sneaky little catches hidden in that D300?

The specs still impress, but things like this leave a bit of a foul taste. I know I don't like it if there are caveats like this.

[edit]Got the article... [/edit]

http://www.bythom.com/D3QA.htm
http://www.bythom.com/D3comments1.htm



Edited by Tentacle on Aug 27, 2007 at 08:18 PM GMT



Aug 27, 2007 at 01:58 PM
dcmiller
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p.22 #19 · •Nikons Announced: D3, D300, lenses


Tentacle wrote:
Hmmm ... any more sneaky little catches hidden in that D300?

The specs still impress, but things like this leave a bit of a foul taste. I know I don't like it if there are caveats like this.

Can you give the link to the source of that Thom Hogan remark dcmiller?


his web site. The "oops" part was from me.



Aug 27, 2007 at 02:01 PM
mjcabrera
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p.22 #20 · •Nikons Announced: D3, D300, lenses


Come on guys, how many pictures have you taken since Nikon's announcement?
Go out and enjoy the equipment you already have. Have fun!!!



Aug 27, 2007 at 02:54 PM
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