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Archive 2007 · When is it ok to take pictures in public?

jim bennett
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p.3 #1 · When is it ok to take pictures in public?

ShellyinCa wrote:
This is not something new Jim.

Back in 1994 when my children were taking swim classes, the pool administrator was as nice to me. I was trying to take video of both my children (in the same class) learning to swim, about 2 minutes into it, the director of the public pool came over to me and in front of about 60 other parents very loudly told me that what I was doing was not allowed since other children would be in the video. He told me that I had to delete my video tape (the whole tape, not just...Show more →

Wow. I can't even imagine it occurring like it did to you. I was embarrassed enough as it was, but if he had made a scene like that I might have flipped out instead. Later on after I had left, I started to feel angry about the whole thing and that's where I am at now.

Jul 04, 2007 at 10:41 AM

jjlphoto
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p.3 #2 · When is it ok to take pictures in public?

DLNB wrote:

My kid would not be on a team where the parents could not take photos.

Actually, for those here who are pros, this is fairly common requirement, IOW, to have an exclusive. This is a Photo Forum after all!

For events like that, they are often arranged based on a very low (or no) site fee, and the money is in the print orders. Also, sometimes, 10% off those orders is given back to the teams as a charitable contribution as well.

How would you feel if you were hired to cover an event, and once you set up a group, someone else snaps away and gave those pics away cutting you out of the loop on reprint orders?

The owner/management of the site does have the right to control what goes on there, including who can take pics. If there are no rules posted to the contrary, nor any info on the tickets pertaining to cameras, one should safely assume that it is fair game to snap away. In the example given, how was that presented? Was "team pic" day listed on the team schedule, distributed to team members on a flyer, with fine print restricting cameras, or was it merely an order barked out suddenly on the day of the shoot? Even if it was a last minute deal, the reasonable and prudent person would be expected to comply.

This is really a different situation that what the OP started. In that case, the swim coach made an arbitrary and subjective decision to suddenly halt photography based on nothing substantial, and not with prior discussions with the sites owners/management. IOW, he just made a knee jerk response with no thought as to if he had any real authority to do such, nor any consideration of the prevailing policies of the site, or the laws of the land.

Jul 04, 2007 at 10:45 AM

Mike Ganz
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p.3 #3 · When is it ok to take pictures in public?

jjlphoto wrote:
Adults who have had overly strict parocial shool upbringing or were part of a dynfunctional household as a child often bring their misguided feelings of shame and guilt with them into the adult world. Don't let their fears and phobias get into your head.

Sounds like psychobabble hogwash to me. This is what political correctness, the nanny state, and paranoia all run amok brings. Welcome to a world where the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many. The OP should keep on shooting...no reason to miss out on his child's formative years because a few others don't have the nuts to speak to him directly. Unless photography was strictly prohibited (and made known to everyone), and he wasn't impeding the ability of the instructor's and lifeguards to do their jobs, he was well within his rights to do so. The complainers really need to get a life and keep out of that of others.

Jul 04, 2007 at 01:01 PM

jjlphoto
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p.3 #4 · When is it ok to take pictures in public?

I guess my point in that statement was that people who act that way often can't help themselves, so rather than pander to them, do your own thing. Just because they have irrational frears and hang-ups, no reason you have to give into or patronize their personality disorders. Don't minimize their feelings, but if you are doing something you believe is fulfilling to you, don't stop doing it because it is not fulfilling to them.

Jul 04, 2007 at 01:53 PM

DLNB
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p.3 #5 · When is it ok to take pictures in public?

jjlphoto wrote:
Actually, for those here who are pros, this is fairly common requirement, IOW, to have an exclusive. This is a Photo Forum after all!

For events like that, they are often arranged based on a very low (or no) site fee, and the money is in the print orders. Also, sometimes, 10% off those orders is given back to the teams as a charitable contribution as well.

To me kids sports are about kids, family and fun. it shouldn't be all about proffit, or competition. I would not have my kids involved in a league where the parents could not snap photos. Just my choice.

Jul 04, 2007 at 01:55 PM

Mmusicman
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p.3 #6 · When is it ok to take pictures in public?

Mmusicman wrote:
..If someone doesn't want you to photograph them, then why force the issue.

jjlphoto wrote:
...you cow-towed to the parent for no reason other than to appease them because they intimidated you. ...you need to fear no one.

You "ASSUME" I reacted out of intimidation or fear. I did it out of respect. I'm guessing that alot of the comments posted here are from people who are NOT parents.

jjlphoto wrote:
What if it was a cool shot that would have fetched a good price in an art show or gallery?

Spoken like a true paparazzi...making money of the unwanted images of others. I'm sorry, I didn't see it that way.

Jul 04, 2007 at 02:12 PM

jebrown
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p.3 #7 · When is it ok to take pictures in public?

I have always found that you will have less hassle if you go to those operating the facility and introduce yourself, tell them what you want ro do and why.
Chances are they will allow you to go ahead and shoot (offers of free photos never hurt).
This is true of any facility no matter what the venue.
Don't let other peoples's fear and narrowmindedness stop your photography. You did nothing wrong. Besides the facilityn should let parents know where the visitation limits are.

Jul 04, 2007 at 02:37 PM

levine2
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p.3 #8 · When is it ok to take pictures in public?

To hell with the photo police, You have the right to take a photo in a public place. Unless a sign strictly forbids photography, snap away.

Jul 04, 2007 at 03:41 PM

jetmutant
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p.3 #9 · When is it ok to take pictures in public?

I got this recently when hired to shoot a young girl (8) birthday party, it was held at a public park so next to the gazebo where the eating & party was held there was a small play ground with assorted jungle gyms & various other distractions for kids. while shooting the party goers I was approached by three parents, who were initially very aggressive, about why I was there taking pictures of kids ect...after handing them a business card and a quick explanation of what I was doing there they did scurry back to there respective areas but did continue to give me the evil eye...I did go through the same emotions first taken aback by the implied accusation that I was there for nefarious purposes, then angry that they would think if such, then when I thought it trough glad that they were at least concerned enough to approach some one that looks like me (6' 1" 235, long hair) to ask questions...I did keep shooting but was more careful of who I got in the viewfinder...I did promise to delete any children�s pictures who were not at the party.

It is indeed a sad world that we live in when a few scumbags can make others live in complete fear, and those of us who would do them a favor by providing memories for years to come, allowing them to fully participate in the event are treated as a scourge...and the vast silent majority shakes their head and yet does nothing...

How many other freedoms will we sacrifice in the effort to "feel safe" The right to free press? The right to peacfully assemble? The right to keep and bear arms? The right to stop unlawful search & siezure? The right to privacy? Free speach?

Sorry for the rant at the end but it is July 4 ! and I'm in a bit of a melancholy mood because I think if all the freedoms we have already lost because of a small percentage of people that intend to do others harm...

Jul 04, 2007 at 04:20 PM

jjlphoto
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p.3 #10 · When is it ok to take pictures in public?

Mmusicman wrote:
I'm guessing that alot of the comments posted here are from people who are NOT parents.

I am the parent of two small children.

Spoken like a true paparazzi...making money of the unwanted images of others. I'm sorry, I didn't see it that way.

Unwanted by whom? If you want the shot, go for it. That is why you are photographing. Doesn't matter if you have plans to display it, sell them, have a slide show, or never let it see the light of day. If it was worthy enough for you to take the time and energy to make that exposure, why let others decide if it is okay for you to have that photo? It's none of their business.

DLNB wrote:
To me kids sports are about kids, family and fun. it shouldn't be all about proffit, or competition. I would not have my kids involved in a league where the parents could not snap photos. Just my choice.

You are obviously not a profession photographer.

Would you show up at church or school to snap your own where the pro is set up to produce the directory or yearbook shots? Of course not. The field has its upkeep, do you show up with a mower offering to mow it for free? Of course not. Do you show up with your own refrigerated truck full of lemonade and quench the team's thirsts for free, or let the concession stand take care of that?�Out of respect for the photographer hired to be there, (it is his livelyhood, remember) one should not try to interfere.

In the case of the person who made that post about a commercial concern coming in twice a year to do pics, it would be reasonable to enforce and expect parents to observe an "exclusive" while the pro was there. To ban photography by parents for the entire season for arbitrary reasons is certainly up to the owners of the field to do such, unless it is a publically owned field. Then that ban could be challenged as it has no merit.

There have been a lot of knee jerk policies put into place lately with the proliferation of cell phones, and from people's boogie man phobias as well. However, companies like Apple, Sprint, ATT, Nokia, Ericksson, etc, have so much clout, I actually see enforcement of photography bans as being an uphill battle. Since the photography profession is not in a financial position to oppose all these bans, those corporate giants sure are. Their survival depends on people being able to take and send pics at will. As a pro, it would be great if only licensed pros could take and sell pics, but that is not realistic. I have to make sure my pics are obviously different, better, and have more value to the buying public than those taken by amatuers.

Edited by jjlphoto on Jul 04, 2007 at 04:53 PM GMT

Jul 04, 2007 at 04:28 PM

Mmusicman
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p.3 #11 · When is it ok to take pictures in public?

Maybe I should have said "most" parents..

jjlphoto wrote:
I am the parent of two small children...Unwanted by whom? If you want the shot, go for it. That is why you are photographing....
Just because you have no problem with stangers photographing "your" children, and even possilby displaying them for profit or whatever their wants may be, doesn't mean you can speak for me and my family. That's why they call it "respect".

Jul 04, 2007 at 05:51 PM

jjlphoto
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p.3 #12 · When is it ok to take pictures in public?

Mmusicman wrote:
Maybe I should have said "most" parents..

Just because you have no problem with stangers photographing your children, and even possilby displaying them for profit or whatever their wants may be, doesn't mean you can speak for me and my family. That's why they call it "respect".

You may not agree with the law of the land, but that's the way it is in a free society. In the US, anyone outside can expect to be photographed. Anyone worried about what people are doing with those pics behind closed doors has too much time on their hands. Put you efforts into more productive measures. Noth'in you can do about what those people may be doing with those pics anyway.

Yes, somebody could be taking pics of my kids and hanging them up in their home with ill intents. Yes, it is creepy. I do not like that. But I cannot control what is in peoples heads. That is what starts book burnings and such.

Jul 04, 2007 at 05:57 PM

janiceL
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p.3 #13 · When is it ok to take pictures in public?

i worked in an office that handled the business of area state beaches..one of the rules/laws....is that no picture takeing is allowed in the state park(beach, in this case) and they do have that law for a reason...we caught quite a few people takeing pictures and videos of childrenthey had no connections to....with two of them even found more equipment with evidence of child pornography..usually a family takeing pictures of each other..isn't bothered... and can carry on....and take pictures... but the law is there... to be used to protect people.. they hire lifeguards to watch people in the water... but they and others are trained to watch for such conduct on the beach too..its a scary world sometimes..but common sense should have prevailed in your situation...you were obviously takeing pictures of your child swimming...janice

Jul 04, 2007 at 09:40 PM

jjlphoto
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p.3 #14 · When is it ok to take pictures in public?

janiceL wrote:
i worked in an office that handled the business of area state beaches..one of the rules/laws....is that no picture takeing is allowed in the state park(beach, in this case)

Unfortunately, if pressed, this law would be found unconstitutional and repealed. Most likely, no one has tried yet.

Jul 04, 2007 at 11:29 PM

NFGman
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p.3 #15 · When is it ok to take pictures in public?

Sure, they can, but it is unlikely. College is a place where photography is expected, often taught, and it should be encouraged.
Sadly this is not the case in Australia. I've been kicked off the grounds for daring to take photos at St. Lucia campus in Brisbane. I put up a fight and the guard - who talked to me and left me alone earlier in the day - gave me the number of the 'media office' to seek permission.

Should really call and see what's up with that.

A coworker of mine was harrassed by a tightly wound mother at a festival once. Her kids weren't even in the pictures (he showed her) but she demanded he stop or she'd get the police. He told her he wasn't putting the camera away and she should either shut up or get the cops. She shut up stomped off, glaring at him for the rest of the event.

In Australia, like the US and many other countries, no permission is required to take pictures of anyone in a public place. You cannot use it for commercial purposes - like promoting a product - but you're free to do whatever else you want with it. Let's face it, there's too much at stake to remove all cameras from public places. Tourism would grind to a halt. Not that the USA has any problem discouraging tourists...

Be aware of the laws, the rules and the situation. Be cool, explain yourself when asked, but don't give in, and never feel guilty. That's how they win.

Jul 05, 2007 at 04:24 AM

jjlphoto
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p.3 #16 · When is it ok to take pictures in public?

NFGman wrote:
Be aware of the laws, the rules and the situation. Be cool, explain yourself when asked, but don't give in, and never feel guilty. That's how they win.

Well said!

Jul 05, 2007 at 07:30 AM

MWCT
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p.3 #17 · When is it ok to take pictures in public?

You have the right to photograph anyone anytime in a public space except in restricted areas (military installations etc...). In private areas, you may be asked go leave bec of trespassing laws, but as long as you are not trespassing there is no specific law against photography. Obviously, there are exceptions to this general rule, I am sure it will occur to you what these exceptions are and there's no need to belabor the point. This is legally, but of course there are practical and social issues to contend with. Practically, I am careful when photographing other people,simply because if you aren't you end up with 200 photographs on a memory card of people frowning at you. All anyone has to do to ruin a candid is to frown. Socially, there are some people who are uncomfortable being photographed. An example of this is foreign workers - I can understand why they might be uncomfortable even if you explain that you are not with the govt., and its a shame but there you go a social example. Other examples are there are some parents who simply will not want their child photographed, there are some ppl who simply do not want to be photographed. I think camera insurance must be very high on papparazzi... essentially if you take unwanted photographs ppl might feel their privacy intruded upon. Once again this is sad and I try to not stay on one person for too long in order to minimize this. I think candid photography is the hardest thing but the most rewarding.

Jul 05, 2007 at 09:30 AM

elliotkramer
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p.3 #18 · When is it ok to take pictures in public?

Our government and the news media want us all to be scared of everything. We are no longer the home of the brave, but the home of the fearful with a false sense of security. We are headed toward a police state which is what generalized fear leads to, and what governments generally want. Our constitutional rights are being whittled away on a continuous basis. The government wants us to believe that kids are kidnapped and raped all the time, that pedophiles are everywhere, that terrorists are just around the corner, that every driver is probably a drunk driver, and that photographers (and anyone else) probably have ill intentions and we should all be concerned and scared. Let�s outlaw everything (except guns and war, of course). Then maybe we will all be safe.

Jul 05, 2007 at 09:33 AM

ronbo
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p.3 #19 · When is it ok to take pictures in public?

elliotkramer wrote:
Our government and the news media want us all to be scared of everything. We are no longer the home of the brave, but the home of the fearful with a false sense of security. We are headed toward a police state which is what generalized fear leads to, and what governments generally want. Our constitutional rights are being whittled away on a continuous basis. The government wants us to believe that kids are kidnapped and raped all the time, that pedophiles are everywhere, that terrorists are just around the corner, that every driver is probably a drunk driver, and...Show more →
Good point, Elliot!! However, you can just limit the blame to the media and be 99 percent there. since the evolution of the 24 hour "news" programs, it seems that all they try to do is to put fear into the mix as often as possible. Insane Overstatement is the norm, as they spend hours on non-news items to fill time. And the "experts" are all too eager to get their face on television and warn us of impending doom from every source (meteors to mom's apple pie). I am personally fed up with the fear mentality that has been foisted upon us. Screw 'em.

Jul 05, 2007 at 09:52 AM

Avi B
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p.3 #20 · When is it ok to take pictures in public?

Elliot, you are dead on. Although I'm not American, I can clearly see this general trend down there. Up here, it's maybe not as bad, but it's not that dissimilar. This climate of fear.

Ronbo, these days, your US media only reports on what the government wants to be reported anyway. So don't be quick to blame just the media...

Jul 05, 2007 at 10:30 AM

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