p.2 #1 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
Yes, the 1D-3 should go a bit further for those like me who still haven't figured out that photography is about capturing LIGHT.
In your case, low light!
Thanks for taking that image and trying to process it in the different converters to see what's up . . . I guess that means I won't be using the setting any time soon.
PS: Long time, no see!
Or you could take another look at ZoomBrowser or DPP. I have not used them for a long time either…since the D30 times .
ZoomBrowser came a long way and actually works pretty well. You will be able to change any camera preset like Picture Style (Or load your own styles), Noise reduction, exposure compensation, WB tweaks, etc...
I'm thinking that perhaps High ISO Noise reduction "may" be applied to the RAW files as well. Perhaps when converted with ZoomBrowser or DPP, it will work.
DPP works similarly and offers batch mode. I have not played with them too much but they seem to be a good workaround until the dust settles...
PPS: Is that shot from the Wild Animal Park in Escondido? I need to get out that way again.
I took the camera for a spin this weekend. Took about 7GB of shots!!! Mostly because of the 10 shots/second If you have not visited the WAP, I highly recommended. I took the Mk III and the 300mm f/4IS + 1.4x
p.2 #2 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
Fred Miranda wrote:
I'm thinking that perhaps High ISO Noise reduction "may" be applied to the RAW files as well. Perhaps when converted with ZoomBrowser or DPP, it will work.
Hmmm, I'd be surprised to find that out, but I suppose it's possible. Are you gonna check it out for us?
If you have not visited the WAP, I highly recommended.
I've been there before, but it was several years ago. In fact, it was a group of photographers from this site, I believe. If not here, maybe that other forum.
It was back when I took in my two 1D bodies to have them calibrated together (they metered about 1/2 stop differently from each other). I still remember somebody else being in there waiting to have something done, and he knew me from the forums.
p.2 #3 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
Fred Miranda wrote:
I don't think that ACR is actually using the HTP data. For example: This shot was taken with HTP "On" at ISO 200. On camera, the histogram is not showing an overexposing. The image on the LCD looks like it has lots of detail on the highlight areas. However in ACR, with the default settings I get this overexposed image:
Exactly, this supports my theory posted above
Looks like, What HTP does CAN be done with ACR or any raw converter.
The principle of the theory is simple. You take 1 stop under exposed shot. Which will save the highlights. With Curve, you compensate the mid and low region by +1 stop.
Net result will be that low-mid regions is exposed normally. And the highlight will be under-exposed by a stop.
p.2 #4 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
Pondria wrote:
Exactly, this supports my theory posted above
Looks like, What HTP does CAN be done with ACR or any raw converter.
The principle of the theory is simple. You take 1 stop under exposed shot. Which will save the highlights. With Curve, you compensate the mid and low region by +1 stop.
Net result will be that low-mid regions is exposed normally. And the highlight will be under-exposed by a stop.
Hi Pondria!
Your theory makes a lot of sense. Perhaps it also explains why we get less highlight detail when shooting ISO 50...
p.2 #5 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
okay, all you big brains on raw converters etc.....bottomline, does this setting make sense when shooting jpegs of white sports uniforms in daylight (like the canon broch claims along with wedding dresses) or does it mess things up? says in the book it can introduce more noise in the dark areas..so just wondering if it is a good thing or bad ?
p.2 #6 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
rbranan wrote:
okay, all you big brains on raw converters etc.....bottomline, does this setting make sense when shooting jpegs of white sports uniforms in daylight (like the canon broch claims along with wedding dresses) or does it mess things up? says in the book it can introduce more noise in the dark areas..so just wondering if it is a good thing or bad ?
It seems like many new functions were intended for the JPG file. So, yes, with highlight tone priority you will get more highlight detail in expense of 1 f/stop of shadow noise. --Which should not be an issue with the 1D mk III
High ISO color noise reduction and Highlight priority will really work well for those shooting JPG or prefer minimum post-processing.
p.2 #8 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
Fred Miranda wrote:
It seems like many new functions were intended for the JPG file. So, yes, with highlight tone priority you will get more highlight detail in expense of 1 f/stop of shadow noise. --Which should not be an issue with the 1D mk III
High ISO color noise reduction and Highlight priority will really work well for those shooting JPG or prefer minimum post-processing.
I am still unclear, will it, now or at some point in the future, work with RAW or is it a JPG only feature?
p.2 #13 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
Fred and David,
This is a simulation of HTP based on my theory.
1. Top photo is a normal shot with ISO 200.
2. Bottom one was taken with the identical exposure except ISO 100.
The ACR setting for both were identical except that the 2nd one has the simulated HTP curve ( 2x the low-mid tone, keep the highlight the same )
Please carefully look at the White shoulders of the two bottles and the white patch of the chart. The simulated HTP keeps the highlight controlled while maintaining the same exposure level for mid and low tone colors.
p.2 #14 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
Pondria, there's a little more to it than you make out, although what you show is certainly effective for those of us without a 1D3. The 1D3 has two extra data bits to play with and should lose less shadow detail to either noise or lack of discrimination than your approach will lose if you apply it to a non-1D3 camera.
The HTP could work with or without changing the data values in the raw file.
If more levels are allocated to the bright half of the exposure range with HTP than without HTP then the middle tone must be given a lower value relative the maximum possible value of the sensor (2^14-1) and the converter must allow for that. This is just like the differences between existing 12-bit sensor cameras - e.g. the 20D and 1D2 use different raw values for middle level tone on the raw data even though they share the same maximum level. They both map middle level raw value to 127 on the 8-bit rgb scale.
If the number of values in the bright half remains the same as without HTP but a different conversion curve for raw to rgb is used, then again the converter needs to know about that too. No merit in using the wrong curve.
If the raw sensor data was mapped to raw image data differently in-camera for subsequent normal tone conversion to rgb then Fred would not have seen the discrepancy that he found and all existing converters would work ok - which they apparently don't, so we know the camera does not work this way. Or do we ? What converters did Fred use, and were they rated for use with the 1D3 ? Unlikely, or they would know about HTP. So just what tone conversion curve are they using for converting raw image data to rgb image data ?
I guess we'll all know soon enough. The fact that we don;t know yet is not a good enough reason to avoid using HTP in situations where it is beneficial. There are at least two canon converters that can deal with it.
I noted that Adobe have announce ACR 3.8 to handle the 1D3 - but only for PS CS3 and not for CS2 or earlier. Typical Adobe. I'd rather use DPP just to spite them like they spite me.
p.2 #15 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
DavidP wrote:
Hmmm, I'd be surprised to find that out, but I suppose it's possible. Are you gonna check it out for us?
I've been there before, but it was several years ago. In fact, it was a group of photographers from this site, I believe. If not here, maybe that other forum.
It was back when I took in my two 1D bodies to have them calibrated together (they metered about 1/2 stop differently from each other). I still remember somebody else being in there waiting to have something done, and he knew me from the forums.
It was from here. I think I remember you guys trying to get Fred to go.
Fred, when you get a chance to work with the files, I think we would all like to know what you think.
p.2 #16 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
Alan,
My "simulation" is to show conceptually How the HTP may be implemented. I didn't mean that 1Ds3 does it exactly like that. However, I wouldn't miss it if what I guess is correct.
Extra bits in Camera's native bit depth doesn't add benefit UNLESS the noise level is reduced. You just have more bits for noise. It helps when the raw data is converted to the image data. But out-of-camera raw converters are not limited to use only the native bit depth during the conversion any way.
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