p.1 #1 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
If one uses the Highlight Tone Priority on the 1D-III in RAW mode, will non-Canon converters support this?
I guess the only two converters I know of right now that support 1D-III are the latest releases of Adobe Camera Raw and Capture One.
Anybody know if either of these process files shot with HTP correctly?
p.1 #3 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
Well, in the case of HTP, I'm thinking that the RAW data is actually collected differently AND it needs special processing after the fact . . but, I don't know.
p.1 #4 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
:
A Highlight Tone Priority image is processed differently in the camera, regardless of whether the camera is set to CR2 or JPEG. Specifically, the amount of gain applied during the analog-to-digital conversion step is less. For instance, if the camera is set to ISO 200, the amount of gain applied is similar to or the same as ISO 100, which means more of the highlight detail captured by the sensor is preserved during this early in-camera processing step. This is the main reason the camera can't be set lower than ISO 200 when Highlight Tone Priority is enabled; it requires the extra highlight headroom it gets by applying a level of analog signal boost to the sensor data that is commensurate with a lower ISO setting....Show more →
p.1 #5 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
Right . . it gets processed differently in the camera . . . but does that imply that it also needs to be processed differently when converted from RAW? Maybe, maybe not, as best I can tell.
p.1 #6 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
DavidP wrote:
Right . . it gets processed differently in the camera . . . but does that imply that it also needs to be processed differently when converted from RAW? Maybe, maybe not, as best I can tell.
I don't think you need any special process for these files, the data is recorded differently so it should be recognized by any RAW converter.
p.1 #7 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
DavidP wrote:
Right . . it gets processed differently in the camera . . . but does that imply that it also needs to be processed differently when converted from RAW? Maybe, maybe not, as best I can tell.
I wouldn't think so. If yes, then long term we are in for a heap o'trouble as the manufacturer's start requiring this tweak for that feature. Things will start to get real complicated real fast.
BTW... is there a visible, rather than theoretical downside to always leaving HTP On?
p.1 #8 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
Yes vent time. We have a truely interesting feature that nobody that has the camera seems to care about yet. One zillion wedding photographers with harsh light and clients in white await someone on planet earth to do some realworld tests. The Galbriath site ample reminds me of Kodak film announcements back in the 80's. Really now, who shoots a bride with studio strobes in nice controlled environment lol hello, fire me some midday sun out the front door of church and I'll sit up and take notice. I'll try to be patient waiting a pro in the know to do this for us.... Steve
p.1 #9 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
OK, this is my guess of what they are doing.
In this mode, the shot is taken with one Stop lower ISO. ( If you set it at ISO 400, it will be taken at ISO 200 )
They use the following mapping ( example )
ADC value -> RAW data value
4095 -> 4095
2048 -> 2896
1024 -> 2048
512 -> 1024
256 -> 512
128 -> 256
... and so on ...
This mapping has two effects (1) Low, Mid tones have the correct values for that ISO. (2) High tones will have under exposed values ( up to one stop )
And down side of this trick is that you will lose one stop of DR .
For David's question, you don't need special RAW converter for this.
Actually We can do better than this ( in-camera HTP ) with ACR Curve manipulation
p.1 #12 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
That is a great question David! --- BTW: Finally a camera for your low light needs!!!
I don't think that ACR is actually using the HTP data. For example: This shot was taken with HTP "On" at ISO 200. On camera, the histogram is not showing an overexposing. The image on the LCD looks like it has lots of detail on the highlight areas. However in ACR, with the default settings I get this overexposed image:
(We already know that High ISO noise reduction does not apply to RAW - Perhaps HTP as well....)
p.1 #13 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
Whoa, I never considered the possibility that HTP would not apply to RAW. If one of you lucky people who have gotten the camera could test that it would sure be appreciated.
p.1 #14 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
I just tried the same image using ZoomBrowser EX (supplied with the camera) and it looks perfectly exposed there (The same as what the camera’s LCD and histogram were showing). So your suspicion is correct David. ACR is NOT yet compatible with HTP and as far as I can tell it will make a difference depending on which RAW converter you use.
p.1 #15 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
Fred Miranda wrote:
I just tried the same image using ZoomBrowser EX (supplied with the camera) and it looks perfectly exposed there (The same as what the camera’s LCD and histogram were showing). So your suspicion is correct David. ACR is NOT yet compatible with HTP and as far as I can tell it will make a difference depending on which RAW converter you use.
Fred
So then it is just a "flag" for raw processing a certain way... Wonder if Canon is going to "share" their algorithm for it or if it will have to be reverse engineered.
I'm already disappointed in the difference between RIT, ZoomBrowser, ACR, C1, Breeze, you name it with regular photos with different cameras and lighting.
Maybe we really do need something like a DNG+ where each file has all the manufactuer support coding information for how to process and interpret the data, so then we can have the apps work to an extensible standard and we can pick the best for workflow not for image quality.
p.1 #16 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
exphose wrote:
So then it is just a "flag" for raw processing a certain way... Wonder if Canon is going to "share" their algorithm for it or if it will have to be reverse engineered.
Not exactly.
I'd say that setting HTP is actually changing the bits in the RAW file (compared to what would result with a non-HTP shot), and the "flag" is then set so that the RAW converter knows how to handle the resulting image.
Basically, you can think of HTP as the "encoding", and then RAW converter needs to decode it properly.
p.1 #17 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
exphose wrote:
Maybe we really do need something like a DNG+ where each file has all the manufactuer support coding information for how to process and interpret the data, so then we can have the apps work to an extensible standard and we can pick the best for workflow not for image quality.
All DNG does is set a standard for how the RAW data is stored . . . it does nothing for setting a standard about how the data should be optimally processed.
p.1 #18 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
Fred Miranda wrote:
That is a great question David! --- BTW: Finally a camera for your low light needs!!!
Would I ask any other kind? (no need to actually ANSWER that )
Yes, the 1D-3 should go a bit further for those like me who still haven't figured out that photography is about capturing LIGHT.
Thanks for taking that image and trying to process it in the different converters to see what's up . . . I guess that means I won't be using the setting any time soon.
PS: Long time, no see!
PPS: Is that shot from the Wild Animal Park in Escondido? I need to get out that way again.
p.1 #20 · Highlight Tone Priority and non-Canon converters?
I haven't used ZoomBrowser in a long, long time. It's designed by Canon, so I don't think it does anything significantly different than DPP. Mainly just a different User-Interface, really.
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