That looks like a very tempting way into digital MF. Can old, manual focus lenses be used on the 645 AFD II?
I found the answer to that myself: yes it is.
This looks like an interesting option. Apart from the price of a basic kit being less than half of the corresponding Hasselblad, the option of using any old Mamiya lens makes it even more tempting. It seems like it's also possible to use the same back on both the 645AFDII and the RZ67D, expanding the flexibility of the system even more.
Mainly because of the price, I've never seriously considered digital MF before, but it looks as if this is becoming a viable option now.
I'm curious as to the compatibility of this back to the older, first 645AFD as well as even older bodies. Does anyone know? I'm pretty sure any manual 645 lenses will work with restrictions.
It seems to me that it's only compatible with the latest AFD II body (plus the RZ67D). I guess that's one of the reasons for the second version of the camera: to make seamless functionality between body and sensor.
Apparently, they have also released a new 28mm WA, that will also work on film.
I had read that the AFD 11 mainly improved upon Auto Focus. One would think that at least the first AFD, where the D stands for Digital, would be compatible.
I own both of the Mamiya 645 AFD and AFD II. The first batch of the AFD II should be sent to Mamiya America to get the firmware updated. I find both versions well made and the later version is nicer but for the value the AFD should be seriously considered. If you like the L bracket you should consider the AFD II since the mirror lock up is on top instead on the side and could be interfer with the L bracket.
p.1 #10 · Mamiya ZD back finally here...and cheap.
Son - What lenses do you have / recommend for the Mamiya 645 ?
I am somewhat confused about MF lenses and their IQ & resolution as conpared to 135 format CZ lenses. What I have read is the bigger the glass the less the quality but the added size of the sensor / negative somewhat makes up for that. If the 645 lenses are not as good as the 135's, which system would give higher image quality, a new Canon 35mm with a 22mp sensor and a CZ21 or Mamiya 645 with a 22mp back ?
p.1 #11 · Mamiya ZD back finally here...and cheap.
Jon,
It is true that the medium format lens are not as sharp as the 35 mm format lens. However, there are a handful of medium format lens that are as sharp as the 35 mm. The myth always exist once folks start to generalize the concept from what they read. Only through rigorous research we will see the answer and the confusion will go away.
Here is what I own in my medium format systems and you tell me which system you would like me to expand on and I will repost:
I. Contax 645 System:
II. Mamiya 645 AFD + AFD II Systems:
III. Hasselblad V 6x6 System:
IV. Rollei 6008 6x6 AF/Integral II Systems:
Once you tell me which system to expand I will tell you more. One more important note I now can also tell the different level between the 35 mm, 645, 6x6, and 6x7 formats in term of optics. Thus when I listed those systems that I own I hope you will also take a hard consideration into which system you prefer.
Furthermore, besides the sensor size which is the major factor here and the limitation of technology, optics, there is also CCD versus CMOS and no AA filter versus AA filter and D/A converters (12 bit versus 16 bits and 14 bits).
Therefore, I like to go with medium format digital system or the Leica DMR which is like a digital back.
Also the focusing screen is a key to your crucial works and the 6x6 format provides you with such an advantage to do your creative works. Just ask folks who own these systems such as Graham and he will tell you his passion for the Rollei.
p.1 #12 · Mamiya ZD back finally here...and cheap.
I think you answered my general question and I re-read the other thread on MF versus digital which helped too. IQ is more than just size of sensor / negative and the resolution of the lenses. CCD versus CMOS, AA filter versus none and D/A converters (12 bit versus 16 bits and 14 bits) also contribute. Also, there are high res MF lenses if you do your homework.
So, today you are going to get better IQ with the best MFDB systems when compared to the best 135 systems (but the difference may be most evident when you print big). 135 systems may increase sensor resolutions but with all the other factors controlling IQ, we just have to wait and test them to see where they end up.
p.1 #13 · Mamiya ZD back finally here...and cheap.
jonboring wrote:
I am somewhat confused about MF lenses and their IQ & resolution as conpared to 135 format CZ lenses. What I have read is the bigger the glass the less the quality but the added size of the sensor / negative somewhat makes up for that. If the 645 lenses are not as good as the 135's, which system would give higher image quality, a new Canon 35mm with a 22mp sensor and a CZ21 or Mamiya 645 with a 22mp back ?
It comes down to the individual lenses, of course.
Here's the MTF for my much loved Rollei 40mm f3.5:
So what can one see from the charts? Wide open, the Canon gives slightly better resolution in the centre, but much worse in the corners.
Stopped down, they are closer but again the Canon's corner performance is abysmal.
Remember that the Rollei chart is showing coverage for the larger 36x48mm sensor, so even when the charts are the same the MFDB system gives significantly more overall resolution due to having double the sensor area.
One must also consider that the MFDB's AA filter is not as strong as Canon's, so when I am pixel peeping, the MFDB images look more detailed than anything I achieved with the Canon.
As Pham mentions, there are other benefits to medium format such as a much larger viewfinder. There are well known disadvantages too such as price, weight, size, limited high ISO and slower frame rates.
p.1 #14 · Mamiya ZD back finally here...and cheap.
I don't think it's fair to call MF and LF lenses "lower in quality". It's looking at the situation backwards. Small format cameras require so much enlargement that you desperately need good glass. For every doubling of your enlargement factor you need to double lens resolution to achieve the same detail in print.
MF lenses and particularly LF lenses in general aren't as highly corrected as SF lenses because 1) it would be incredibly expensive to do so, and 2) they don't need to be. But some newer lenses, including the Schneider Digitar lenses for view cameras, are indeed corrected to a much higher degree (and price) for people using scanning backs.
Look at the opposite extreme. People who shoot 8x10 and 11x14 and 16x20 large format cameras generally don't enlarge their images at all. They're contact printed. And when they're enlarged it's seldom more than 2 or 3-fold. So you can take antique lenses that have nowhere near the resolution of modern lenses, and still produce contact prints that have truly breathtaking resolution. And even a crappy 20 lpm lens on a contact print will heavily outresolve the human eye from all viewing distances.
So you don't want to make tiny tiny crops from lower res MF or LF lenses, because then you're reintroducing the enlargement factor for a lens that's meant to be used on a big format. But to the degree that MF and LF need to be enlarged from capture size (or near capture size), there's simply no point in the added cost of a large format lens that can put 200 lpm down on the film.
p.1 #17 · Mamiya ZD back finally here...and cheap.
When it comes to digital user it is essential to get the lens with high resolving power; that is the relavent point here. This explains why Schneider and Rodenstock are producing digital lens to increase the requirement of digital user. Without the high resolving power lens the medium format system will not have the great advantage we expect. If folks going to pay for such high price digital back they better getting something better than the 35 mm digital sensor; thus the optics in the medium format system is essential either with improvement of new optics or selecting the existing one that has the ability to take the digital medium format sensor to the next step. Film shooter is a different story and even in the film day there are folks trying to get high resolving power lens for their 4X5 system so they do not have to use the 8X10 system. Thus, when folks tell you that there is no different among large format lens it is not true.
Despite the medium format is heavier than the 35 mm system but trust me I will not lug around the Sinar 8X10 camera again soon despite I love that system. Medium format has become a nice medium for me with the digital back. I also believe that I can do my works now with the medium format system and a well crafted auto bellows system. Don't forget about the formats in medium format versus 35 mm format; often folks love the 4x5 versus the 4x6 format and some like myself also love the 6x6 square format. The future of square format is within reached. I for once will see the progress of photography and optics in the digital medium format as a well balance system for me.
Jun 02, 2007 at 12:14 PM
Andi Dietrich Offline [X]
p.1 #18 · Mamiya ZD back finally here...and cheap.
A good and nice lens is important in photography of course, however when it comes to MF I dont think you will see a huge difference in resolving power between a lens which resolves 90 lines and say one which resolves 110. Imagine you want to make a print of 100x100cm and you have a 30mp back, there is just nobody who could tell he sees a big difference in image quality.
The cameras control and accurate focus system is more important than resolving power IMO
p.1 #19 · Mamiya ZD back finally here...and cheap.
I'm a bit confused. The one piece camera was the RZ, but their not selling that in the U.S.? The 645 kit or just the back are the two options? Is the back the same performance as the RZ?
p.1 #20 · Mamiya ZD back finally here...and cheap.
dcmiller wrote:
I'm a bit confused. The one piece camera was the RZ, but their not selling that in the U.S.? The 645 kit or just the back are the two options? Is the back the same performance as the RZ?
I'm not sure I understand your question but the 'one piece' digital camera is called the ZD. The digital back is also called the ZD. The ZD back is made for the Mamiya 645AFD II and the New RZ67 Pro IID.
