Couple things of interest here....I put a card in my MIII that had images on it shot from my 20D. Images were RAW+ L JPG. In this instance I believe the camera uses an embedded JPG in the RAW file for display of thumbnail. It looked really nice. None of the fuzzies people are complaining about (including myself). So Ithink the screen is nice and the file being displayed is the problem. Others can check and follow up. Also here is the bomb..I went into Ritz to try a different lens than one of my own due to all this focus discussion. I have CF IV - 2 set to swap the * and AF on button. CF III was set between default and slow. So as I'm depressing the * button pointing the camera around the store on different subjects the focusing is responding albeit a little slow. I decided to set CF IV - 2 back to the default setting and again start to point the camera around, but this time with the AF-ON button the AI Servo was reponding much quicker in snapping new targets into focus. I thought I was losing it. I called the guy I usually deal with over and set the camera both ways without saying anything as to why. He looked at me and said why is it faster the 2nd way. The lens was a Canon 75-300 non IS. NO speed demon in its own right. It was more responsive with the AF-ON button. So please test and see what you get. Thanks C.J.
Paul B wrote:
Does Canon have some sort of system where they can bring in such "tiger teams" of professional photogs to test out new systems? These groups could sort of provide a sanity check on new products produced by the various engineering groups at Canon.
Paul I think the average CPS member (like me) is about as out of the loop with regards to Canon's internal procedures as any other member of the general public. There certainly are photographers engaged by Canon to test new equipment but I doubt more than a few visitors here could comment on that from personal experience, and that's assuming they even want to.
At the very least, when someone like Galbraith finds (or says he's found) issues with a new product, Canon (and any large firm) ought to be in a position to understand what's going on, explain what's happening and be able to do it in a way that would prevent publication of a Galbraith-type article (or at least ensure that if it's written Galbraith is able to tell readers that Canon knows what's causing the issue and knows how to quickly solve it.)
It is not in the nature of many companies, including Canon, to be forthright in such a manner. I'm not well versed in the legal implications, but it's been mentioned before on forums about potential liability issues such public admission could raise. If you look at past issues with Canon equipment, you'll find that they've always (from my recollection) handled it in the same way - that being public silence. Announcements have only been made once solutions have been put into place, such as the 24-105 recall or firmware updates. If you dig back through the former Rob Galbraith forum archives now at Pro Photo Home you'll see there was a lot of discussion about unacceptable QC when the original 1D hit the street and was revealed to have a lot of significant high ISO banding. Canon eventually fixed the camera through firmware and apparently a hardware modification (though there was never an official recall for that).
I agree though, it's not an ideal policy from a Canon user point of view as it leaves a lot of unanswered questions in regard to how long and whether they'll be able to fix the apparent issues... or for all those waiting to buy but uncertain about the risk. But based on their past track record, I am not expecting any kind of progress reports.
rscheffler wrote:
Paul I think the average CPS member (like me) is about as out of the loop with regards to Canon's internal procedures as any other member of the general public. There certainly are photographers engaged by Canon to test new equipment but I doubt more than a few visitors here could comment on that from personal experience, and that's assuming they even want to.
It is not in the nature of many companies, including Canon, to be forthright in such a manner. I'm not well versed in the legal implications, but it's been mentioned before on forums about potential liability issues such public admission could raise. If you look at past issues with Canon equipment, you'll find that they've always (from my recollection) handled it in the same way - that being public silence. Announcements have only been made once solutions have been put into place, such as the 24-105 recall or firmware updates. If you dig back through the former Rob Galbraith forum archives now at Pro Photo Home you'll see there was a lot of discussion about unacceptable QC when the original 1D hit the street and was revealed to have a lot of significant high ISO banding. Canon eventually fixed the camera through firmware and apparently a hardware modification (though there was never an official recall for that).
I agree though, it's not an ideal policy from a Canon user point of view as it leaves a lot of unanswered questions in regard to how long and whether they'll be able to fix the apparent issues... or for all those waiting to buy but uncertain about the risk. But based on their past track record, I am not expecting any kind of progress reports....Show more →
Sadly... The members of the "Tiger Testing Team" are composed of everyone who decided to go ahead and purchase a Mark III. Unfortunately, the membership entrance fee was a hefty $4500.
I find it hard to believe that Canon will be able to resolve this issue through firmware.
Paul B wrote:
"Burn the 1D3"? There have been a number of people who've encountered AF problems, including photogs that have used 1Ds for years. It could be new settings, could be occasional freaky production issues or any number of other things which may or may not be systemic. But I don't know that many people are trying to "burn" the 1D3. It's actually not that unusual for new software/hardware systems to have quirks that need to get worked out and when you're pushing the technology envelope the way Canon is (which gives us all the best cameras) you've got to expect some issues occasionally on first release.
Here's a question for you (don't know if you're allowed to answer this kind of thing, or whether this is something CPS even does.) But I see you're a member of CPS. When I worked in the US intell community we had various mechanisms for bringing in outside "competing" analytical teams (red/blue teams, tiger teams, whatever) to produce alternate views on stuff. Does Canon have some sort of system where they can bring in such "tiger teams" of professional photogs to test out new systems? These groups could sort of provide a sanity check on new products produced by the various engineering groups at Canon. I realize Canon (and really no other large firm) can do all the testing that's possible on new products but you'd think that for major upgrades like this there'd be a pretty robust system in place to put the camera through its paces (obviously there's some system in place already but when you have this many questions being raised, something probably needs to be added.) At the very least, when someone like Galbraith finds (or says he's found) issues with a new product, Canon (and any large firm) ought to be in a position to understand what's going on, explain what's happening and be able to do it in a way that would prevent publication of a Galbraith-type article (or at least ensure that if it's written Galbraith is able to tell readers that Canon knows what's causing the issue and knows how to quickly solve it.)
And for the record, I'm a Canon fan, have the MkIIn and will no doubt purchase a MkIII when Canon does the official "n" upgrade (in the meantime, I'll be spending even more money on other Canon equipment--lenses. ) ...Show more →
mark1958 wrote:
I am not sure you or anyone can make a conclusion eitherway. We do not know what the cause of the problem is specifically related to. Mark
Well the wait and uncertainty dealt me out. I just cancelled my 1d3 order and ordered a 1d2n instead to finally replace my 10d Sigh.
Can't blame you at all, Gene. If I didn't have one already I would wait or choose another camera too.
I haven't used or tested mine enough to really see those problems yet, but now that we all know exactly what to look for and when, it shouldn't be too hard. A good number of people noticed the issues right away.
Good luck with your new cam, post some shots later!
I spoke to Canon and my Dealer today and asked if I could just return mine that I purchased about two weeks ago. I was told by both the dealer and the factory that I own it. I could send it in for repair and they would get it set to factory specifications. This is not the answer I wanted to here. I wanted to just get a refund and wait until the issue was resolved to get a new one. In the mean time I would get another IIn.
Does anyone know what the policy is for getting a refund on a $4500 camera that is not working as advertised? The reason I purchased another camera is because I needed one for my business, now I have to be without the camera for however many day it takes them to check it out and I assume send it back with the same problems until a real fix is found. I have been experiencing the same problems that RG has found since I started using it and have been looking for the magic settings for two weeks. I have not found it yet.
Well I will say that mine will be here tomorrow. I am not sending it back and I HOPE TO GOD that nothing is wrong. I will say though that I won't be able to test it like you guys, I am going to try the charts and such to see how it works out.
I just found out that there are soft 24-70L lenses and I am going to test that now too. I know my untrained eye is not near as good as some others and I probably won't be able to tell anyway.
After a careful read of the RG article, I have cancelled my Mark III order from B & H. Lucky to have all this information so quickly but sorry for those who were trusting of Canon.
vidoprof wrote:
Well I will say that mine will be here tomorrow. I am not sending it back and I HOPE TO GOD that nothing is wrong. I will say though that I won't be able to test it like you guys, I am going to try the charts and such to see how it works out.
I just found out that there are soft 24-70L lenses and I am going to test that now too. I know my untrained eye is not near as good as some others and I probably won't be able to tell anyway.
Ryan
Why on Earth would you gamble with a camera that has been shown to have a design defect? You would be better off going to Vegas.
I took my new 1DIII to the Alligator Farm this week. I was shocked at the large number of out of focus shots. I did not have the same problem with my 1DSII. I wrote an email to Canon, but no reply (they haven't had the note long).
It was hot, but the birds were cooperative as usual...
I used mainly the 70-200 f2.8 IS and the 400DO. Both lenses I trust. The 1DIII, not yet. It handles so well, I sold 1 1DsII. Probably a mistake.
I think the hype and with some truth of the bad focusing of the mark 3 has gotten out of hand everyone needs to take a deep breath and read the manual and adjust your settings accordingly , This will help alittle , maybe not cure the problem It is by far the most sophisticated camera canon has produces yet and its not a point and shoot in the respect of its custom settings which make a huge difference on how you have them set., I to am really bummed ( to put it mildly) after the initial hype of buying the camera only to learn its not perfect. I did get more involved in reading how to set up the custom functions and that has made a huge improvement. I am not doubting that you had a bunch of crappy out of focus shots but i wouldn;t give up and I yes have faith in canon will make it right, in the end. I know how you fell as countless others do toWe ventured to be the first and some of us are suffering because of it. I am going to try and keep the faith 4500 dollars is allot of money for a Professional camera touted as the best focusing machine out there only to be buggy, I was very upset for awhile as my cash flow is not as rich as others. I know this is not helping your situation , my only concern is that canon new it was faulty at the get go and that was why they didn't have a bunch out there for testing I only hope I am not paranoid, No disrespect intended to anyone, But come on Canon and atleast give us an update on what you our doing, which is the only civil way of doing business.:
This was on DP, thought I would share it here as well, they are letting us perform our own test.... Sorry if you have already read it
"Hi, Peter:
Neither I nor anyone else I know at Canon has any complaints about Rob Galbraith's comments on the EOS-1D Mark III, nor did we attempt to influence his report in any way, shape or form.
I can't comment on the specific AF issues affecting pre-production 1D Mark III cameras, but I can confirm that none of the pre-production cameras were completely functional in terms of AF performance. In other words, there was nothing unique about the particular camera that Rob used.
In the meantime, the initial firmware for mass production samples of the 1D Mark III (i.e., cameras intended for sale to the public) has been approved. Therefore, it stands to reason that any known AF issues that may have affected the preproduction cameras have since been resolved to Canon's satisfaction. In any case, the proof will be in the pudding as "they" say. We are content to let our customers tell us what they think after they perform their own tests.
Best Regards,
While not perfect, the AI-Servo on my 1D-III seems to me to be about the samea as it was on the 1D-II. That is, as long as I do a good job of keeping the AF point on the subject, the camera seems to do a good job focusing. It might be a bit quicker to move to a background area to focus, though, if I do get the focus off for a split second.
HOWEVER, I have only tested mine indoors. I don't shoot that much outdoors, and haven't had the opportunity yet to test the camera out in sunny conditions.
This may sound silly, but has anyone considered doing any testing by taping some type of focus target to the front of a moving object (such as an automobile) and try multiple coming-at-you passes on a hot and sunny day (or under various lighting/weather conditions)? Position the center focus point on the target and see what kind of results you get. Try hand held and on a tripod. If you also have a Mark II/IIn body, try that one too (same lens) and compare the results.
As soon as the hoopla died down (in-stock conditions improved), I planned to get a Mark III. I'd like one now but, obviously, I'll wait. In the meantime, any type of "controlled" testing that anyone could do would be appreciated.
(OK, you can all cringe now that I've said "focus target". )
It's not a settings issue. I've been shooting sports with a 1D for the past two years with center focus point only, no expansion, with servo tracking sensitivity set to moderately slow with good results.
The only new custom function that would affect my shooting style is CFn.III-3 which I set to 1 because I'm only using center point anyway. Having said that, I've tried different tracking sensitivity settings between default and slow and I can say that my 1D outperforms my 1DIII in aquiring and tracking subjects. This is not a good thing.
Charles Clark wrote:
I think the hype and with some truth of the bad focusing of the mark 3 has gotten out of hand everyone needs to take a deep breath and read the manual and adjust your settings accordingly , This will help alittle , maybe not cure the problem It is by far the most sophisticated camera canon has produces yet and its not a point and shoot in the respect of its custom settings which make a huge difference on how you have them set., I to am really bummed ( to put it mildly) after the initial hype of buying the camera only to learn its not perfect. I did get more involved in reading how to set up the custom functions and that has made a huge improvement. I am not doubting that you had a bunch of crappy out of focus shots but i wouldn;t give up and I yes have faith in canon will make it right, in the end. I know how you fell as countless others do toWe ventured to be the first and some of us are suffering because of it. I am going to try and keep the faith 4500 dollars is allot of money for a Professional camera touted as the best focusing machine out there only to be buggy, I was very upset for awhile as my cash flow is not as rich as others. I know this is not helping your situation , my only concern is that canon new it was faulty at the get go and that was why they didn't have a bunch out there for testing I only hope I am not paranoid, No disrespect intended to anyone, But come on Canon and atleast give us an update on what you our doing, which is the only civil way of doing business.:...Show more →
Wow looks like RG's announcement took 50cents off Canon's ADR share price! That's a hit of only about US$650mm in value!
As others have mentioned, that RG article deserves respect and is one which I will remember for a long time. (Too bad that I ordered mine only 4 days ago, and here in Hong Kong they don't do refunds although canon service is usually stellar...oh well.)
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