Hello everyone. I was curious to know which grad NDs you find most useful for coastline sunrise/sunset shots. Hard grads, soft grads, 2 stop, 3 stop? I will probably be shooting 24mm full frame. I can only purchase 2 or 3 and would appreciate recommendations. I am trying to begin building a collection. Thank you.
Whatever ones you choose I hope they are Cokin or similar and not screw-on ones which are hopeless. I have just ordered a cokin system myself but can't comment on the best ones filters as I have yet to use them. Shooting digital though as I am it is not as critical as film so I guess you need a comprehensive set and choose the best one for the situation.
I would like to hear peoples thoughts/experiences as well. From what I have read hard line filters work better on crop cameras as the soft line ones seem to soft but I am not sure why that is. Also I have heard that filters such as HiTech actually have a softer line than others on their hard line filters. Another thing I am curious about is if one style (hard/soft line) works better/worse at different focal lengths from wide angle to telephoto.
I use a Lee system. For a straight horizon found in a seascape for example I use a 2 or 3 stop hard NDG filter. Works like a charm. For a scene with an uneven horizon where their may be trees or hills I use a 2 or 3 stop soft GND. Again works like a charm. When getting ready to take the shot make sure you use the DOF preview button on your camera to line up your filter.
Hi Peter - I have built up a set of Lee ND grads over the last couple of years. I started with a 3 stop and 2 stop hard grads. Obviously that gives you a 5 stopper too by combining the both. My advice is buy the hard edged ones first as most of the situations you are likely to find yourself in will need the effect of the grad down to the horizon (where the luminance of the sky is often the brightest (e.g. at sunrise/set). Cokin produce a wider range of gradients and to be truthful I never quite understood their grad numbering system, but they are okay as an entry-level system - again I'd say get the hard-edge grads. Good luck.
For the coast at sunset, a Singh--Ray 3 stop hard is the ticket. Get a 2-Stop soft from High Tek or Lee but not from Singh-Ray unless you are using a full frame sensor. The transition takes up such a large part of the filter that it's pretty much useless on 1.5 and 1.6 cropped sensors.
That's what i was thinking of doing... picking up a 3 stop hard Singh Ray. After that I was debating getting either a 2 stop hard or a 2 stop soft Singh Ray (or both, hehehe). I planned to shoot 24mm on my full frame film SLR. This will be for the coast of Portugal, the Alentejo region and my future trips thereafter.
I agree with the hard grads for coastal settings. One thing to watch on the less expensive filters is a Magenta cast. If you'll notice, Cokin ND filters are sold as 'neutral grey'. I've noticed a Magenta cast with Hi-Tech 4-stop ND filters though it seemed marginal below 4-stops. That said, I've gotten a Magenta cast with Singh-Ray filters as well, though only with very long exposures.
As far as the ND numbering systems, they are typically represented as 2x, 4x, 6x etc. or 0.3, 0.6, 0.9 etc. The 2x is a filter factor. With a filter that has a 2x filter factor, the amount of light transmitted through the filter is half (1-stop) what it would be without the filter. So the 2x is telling you to double your exposure to compensate for the filter. The 4x passes 1/4 the light (2-stop reduction) so you need to compensate by quadrupling your exposure etc.
The 0.3 is the measure of absorbance or optical density of the filter where OD = log10 (1/T) where T = transmittance.
So if the filter reduces the light by 1-stop, the transmittance would be 50%, OD = log10 (1/0.5) = 0.3
If the filter reduces the light by 2-stops, the transmittance would be 25%, OD = log10 (1/0.25) = 0.6
So a 1-stop ND filter has a 2x filter factor and an optical density of 0.3.
Hope that helps...
Edited by deadbolt on Apr 26, 2007 at 04:11 PM GMT
prcentauri1 wrote:
anyone find use for 0.45 ND grads? i suppose they would work nicely for non-twilight settings.
I filled in the gaps by buying the lee 0.45 and the 0.75 grads to make the complete set - I find I use them all the time depending on what my meter says about the dynamic range of the scence I'm photographing. I think its a real benefit to try and be as accurate as possible when deciding how much you want to take out of the sky and the kind of exposure balance you want to achieve - the complete set of Lee ND grads is expensive though so I think a good starting mix is the 2 and 3 stop hard grads, and fine tune in PS - but if you can afford it then why not? I think its quite satisfying to get it right in-camera (imho). Paul
yeah i was wondering about that too... i have a screw on circ polarizer and i wasnt sure if i was going to run into problems adding a cokin P holder and 2 singh ray filters. would i need a new polarizer? and i have heard chatter about ppl having to saw off some piece of the holder. think i'll have to do the same to make 24mm usable? they do make a wide angle specific holder but it can only hod 1 filter. does anyone use the Z-pro holder? the new Z-pro looks great i think. you can remove the pieces you arent using since it is modular. and you can even flip the holder backwards if you're really worried. but i sorta thought it was really for medium format not 35mm, no?
Bump for the above questions about the screw on CP.
As for the Z-Pro it should work work fine on 35mm cameras. I plan on buying it for my 20D specifically to use with my 10-22mm lens which is about 16mm's on the wide end on my crop sensor camera. 2filter.com shows it mounted to a Canon Rebel with the kit lens.
Cokin makes a P-size WA holder that holds two: depending on your gear, there may be some vignetting. Most people I've talked to have sawn off the flanges that would hold the outermost filter.
If you're going to screw that holder---modified or not---into a full-thickness CP on a WA lens, you may not be able to avoid vignetting. I usually just hand-hold a neutral grad in front of the CP when shooting with a Tokina 12-24, which is designed for the smaller sensor.
Another note: the Hi-Techs will fit in the Cokin P-series holder, but not willingly: there's about a millimeter's diference, so you need to be stern with it. Sounds proprietary, and I'll bet Lee and Singh-Ray stuff is similarly uncooperative. If you plan to stack stuff up frequently, you might want to make the investment in a proprietary holder. Dave
I've been using filters for a couple of years now. If you can only purchase 3 now I would suggest both a 2 stop hard and soft and perhaps a polarizer. All of the filters here are going to give you good results with the Lee IMHO giving you the most neutral and flexible system. The cokin system of filters and holders is great to start out with and will allow you to use the Singh Rays in it as well.
Getting it right in the camera the first time can be very rewarding I know it is at least for me.
I am going to be different here. On a full frame sensor I find the softs work better with wide angle lens and hards with telephotos.
I would have a 2 stop hard, 3 stop soft. The larger the better. I bought the Lee system since I shoot the 1Ds2. The holder cost more, but the filters are cheaper.
Finally, if you are shooting sunset/sunrises on the coast a reverse grad from Singh-Ray is something to strongly think about. When the sun is on the horizon more is needed on the horizon to darken the contrast of the sun. A normal grad will darken the upper sky much too much since it is darker anyway than the horizon where the sun is (or just the glow of the sun after it has set)
The Singh-Ray web site has a good write up on the reverse grad use.
Thanks for the input Phil. I spoke with Ian Cameron ( http://transientlight.co.uk/ ) on this subject and he also has found that for wide-angle full-frame, softs work better. He actually also recommended the 2 stop hard and the 3 stop soft. I guess I'll look into the reverse grads too but now that I am leaning towards the Cokin Z-Pro rather than the P I probably cannot afford more than two filters at this current time. Thanks again.
actually i was referring to the singh ray filters... (cokin z-pro holder and a couple singh ray ND grads, that's what i was thinking of going with). i dunno if this comparison can be made but what do you all think of my plans versus going with a lee holder and lee filters?
