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Archive 2007 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread

  
 
kleinssz69
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p.11 #1 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


Excellant entertainment value


Mar 04, 2007 at 04:10 PM
Planetwide
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p.11 #2 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


BeeMan458 wrote:
"If Canon can make some decent wide-angle lenses, none of us will be looking at "exotic glass"."

I guess I'll go over to the exotic forum and complain about how happy I am with Canon's 35L or why it is I'll never trade my 28-70L for an exotic; ever.

There's a reason I won't do it, because it's not a Canon forum even though folks use Canon bodies. They could equally be using a Nikon, Pentex, Sigma or Yashica; fill in your body of choice. I'm at the point that I'm going need therapy just to keep me from hurling because this
...Show more

Just to clarify, in your vision of the Canon Forum, no dissenting remarks about Canon glass are allowed? Nobody is allowed to compare, or discuss other opportunities?

We are all very happy that you are happy with your Canon glass, but some of us are not, and we are debating the merits of the new version vs the poorer performance of the older versions of Canon glass, yet you try to stifle even this discussion, why? It seems to me that this thread was for that specific purpose.

The alternate forum is for the discussion of other brands of glass that do not have there own dedicated forum, it is not a 'lets complain about Canon forum' as you imply, it seems to me the Canon forum should be used for that purpose.

Perhaps you should use your own logic and start a 'happy comments about Canon glass only' thread, and let the rest of us get on with our constructive discussion...



Mar 04, 2007 at 05:09 PM
BeeMan458
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p.11 #3 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


"...no dissenting remarks about Canon glass are allowed?"

Please, take time to reread my comments and you'll see that none of what you write is in the above you quoted. I'll repost the pertinent part.

"If someone wishes to complain about the WA garbage Canon makes for glass, they should start a thread with that heading. As example one can use the following as a heading title; "Why I'm so mad at Canon for the WA garbage they "force" on us."

You can start a thread, in the Canon forum, and complain all day long, until the cows come home, are milked, fed, put up for the night and start mooing again in the morning for all I care. In fact I encourage it as it would be so cathartic for many here. The pain Canon's WA designs must be causing folks is almost too unbearable to think of to the point that laws should encouraged to be passed to stop this obvious abuse that Canon has caused so many. Maybe you can get Canada's Minister of Commerce to look into this matter and act as an advocate on your behalf.

"It seems to me that this thread was for that specific purpose."

That wasn't the threads purpose. The thread's heading, for those who seem to miss this point, is calling for comments about the newly announced 16-35II and it's not a thread for folks to come and relieve themselves of all their pent up, interpersonal, emotional problems they're having due to their frustration with the design of Canon WA's that they're just not happy with.

"Canon's WA lense quality is soooooo bad."

"How bad is it?"

"It's sooooo bad that I had to make an appointment with my optometrist cause I thought my eyesight was going from bad to worse and needed a new prescription."

Buddah boomp! Kissssssssssh! (Vaudeville drum roll)

Ahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!! (laugh track for stupid jokes when stuck in a surreal loop)

The moderator, Jeff, started the thread and here's his opening comment.

"By request, a 'Master' thread for discussing the new EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM lens, announced today."

Nope, nothing written by the OP about this being a thread for whining and complaining about how unhappy one is with Canon's WA design efforts. How many times do folks need to say they're unhappy with Canon's WA lenses before the word "cliche" begins to look like it has a place, every time this dissatisfaction is voiced?

Canon makes sucky WA lenses (cliche).

Canon's WA lenses are costing me money cause I have to buy exotics (cliche).

Canon needs to give us better WA lense design (cliche).

"...and let the rest of us get on with our constructive discussion..."

Actually, it is you who is out of sync with the thread's stated constructive purpose which the title and the OP's comments are failingly trying to point out, So please, I beseech you, show me mercy as I'm out of meds and the pharmacy doesn't open until nine tomorrow and I don't know if I can hold out until then without taking it out on all my cheap a$$ Canon consumer grade lenses Canon forced me to buy via their very well thought out, clandestine, subliminal sales techniques.

Please, be kind to an old veteran and provide me with relief and start a thread of your own within the Canon forum. And by all means, for exactly the purpose which you suggest, one will finally be able to come and relieve themselves, emotionally; constructively complaining in unison ("Horton Hear's a Who!"; Whoville) about all aspects of Canon's horribly failed WA efforts to their hearts delight and folks can once again come to this thread, expecting to find comments which meet the OP's posted and stated intent so I can once and for all remove this stupid aluminum hat; the neighbors are beginning to talk and this point is causing my wife embarrassment; she don't like that. That would be most kind of you.

Edited by BeeMan458 on Mar 04, 2007 at 05:47 PM GMT



Mar 04, 2007 at 06:27 PM
bobbytan
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p.11 #4 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


You are unbelievable Thomas. We are all Canon shooters here, and this is a CANON forum where we can air our likes and dislikes about any piece of Canon equipment. I have already pre-ordered the 16-35L II (have you, Thomas?) without first waiting for the reviews, as many of you are - bcause I am confident that THIS lens will be significantly better and will leave the original version in the dust.

No one has said that ALL Canon w/a lenses suck or there are no good ones. I merely pointed out a fact that Canon's w/a range is not nearly as good as Zeiss, Olympus and Nikon lenses (all Japanese made). This does NOT imply that there are no dogs in the Zeiss, Olympus and Nikon lineup either. I am not even expecting Canon to match the quality of Leica lenses, as that would be expecting too much. I am only hoping their w/a lenses can be just as good as their Japanese counterparts. And I do believe they ARE moving in the right direction with the release of the Mk II ..... and I have enough faith in Canon to order one without adopting a wait-and-see attitude.



Mar 04, 2007 at 07:28 PM
BeeMan458
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p.11 #5 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


"...and this is a CANON forum where we can air our likes and dislikes about any piece of Canon equipment."

I agree, in an appropriate thread; Canon forum, 16-35II official thread. I think the word I'm looking for is called protocol; a concept which seems to have escaped many of late.

Congrats on your pre-order efforts.

"(have you, Thomas?)"

No.

Why?

Cause I'll be ordering a GM2540, a GT3540, Lee filter system, new Canon printer and desktop computer box this year; first. After this $4k worth of loose ends are taken care of and the dust of the actual release of the 16-35 II takes place, six plus months or so from it's availability for distribution, I may just do as you suggest, if I don't buy a 5D II first.

Money's limited; please forgive the modesty of my wallet or that I have already prioritized my photographic purchases for the year.



Mar 04, 2007 at 07:33 PM
kleinssz69
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p.11 #6 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


Is this the reincarnation of Guy in a canon body or what

Keep up the great stuff



Mar 04, 2007 at 07:57 PM
BeeMan458
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p.11 #7 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


Sorry, just having fun today at the expense of the obviousness of it all.


Mar 04, 2007 at 08:31 PM
Grant808
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p.11 #8 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


bobbytan wrote:
We are not even talking about Leica here.


I can, if it'll cause another 4 pages of anti-alternative ranting Very entertaining indeed.




Mar 04, 2007 at 10:06 PM
Planetwide
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p.11 #9 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


BeeMan458 wrote:
"...no dissenting remarks about Canon glass are allowed?"

Please, take time to reread my comments and you'll see that none of what you write is in the above you quoted. I'll repost the pertinent part.

"If someone wishes to complain about the WA garbage Canon makes for glass, they should start a thread with that heading. As example one can use the following as a heading title; "Why I'm so mad at Canon for the WA garbage they "force" on us."

You can start a thread, in the Canon forum, and complain all day long, until the cows come home, are milked, fed,
...Show more

I completely disagree with your comments, and you have no right to dictate what other people can and cannot post about in this thread. Quite simply, we are talking about the new lens in relation to the previous model and if you cannot get your head around that logic...

I have said nothing about other glass, it is you who continue to rabble on about this, you have no right to limit what any of us choose to post, and I for one resent your attempts to do so. You need to step back and re-read your posts, they are getting childish and boring.



Mar 04, 2007 at 10:08 PM
bobbytan
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p.11 #10 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


If it is not for forums like these where we can air our grievances and give our honest opinions about various Canon equipment, we would probably never see the likes of the 85/1.2L II and 16-35/2.8L II. Why would Canon want to upgrade a perfectly good lens - why fix something that is not broken? Our constant whining and moaning about the lack of quality control (high sample variation with lenses) and about their competitors having better products than they do has not fallen on deaf ears. Canon is getting valuable feedback about their products and what the market wants, through these forums, and they are doing something about it! We should therefore welcome and encourage these negative criticisms, as long as these are not coming from obvious trolls or people who don't even own a piece of Canon equipment.


Mar 04, 2007 at 10:25 PM
justruss
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p.11 #11 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


bobbytan wrote:
If it is not for forums like these where we can air our grievances and give our honest opinions about various Canon equipment, we would probably never see the likes of the 85/1.2L II and 16-35/2.8L II. Why would Canon want to upgrade a perfectly good lens - why fix something that is not broken? Our constant whining and moaning about the lack of quality control (high sample variation with lenses) and about their competitors having better products than they do has not fallen on deaf ears. Canon is getting valuable feedback about their products and what the market wants,
...Show more


Agreed!

When did the policy change that all new lens announcements must be filled with only neutral or positive feedback on the lens... that's for buying and selling... another board?

Now, where's that valium gas I picked up from the Russian army last year... (looks in closet)...



Mar 05, 2007 at 12:03 AM
Will Han
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p.11 #12 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


I just recently purchased the 16-35, should i return it and wait for the version II? Is it worth the wait? are the improvements worth it? Im kinda stuck on what to do. Im not worried about the filter size to much. Does anyone know when the actual release date is? Thanks in advance.


Mar 05, 2007 at 01:49 AM
bobbytan
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p.11 #13 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


If you are willing to pay about $200 more, yes, as I think the improvements are worth at least that much (especially if you are using a FF body) and I personally think it's worth much more. Besides, the price of the original 16-35L is going to drop quite significantly, so if you decide that the Mk II is overkill for your needs you would be able to get the original 16-35L for much less than what it would cost you now.

The new lens should reach the dealers end March, so it will start shipping early April. At least that is what Amazon.com is saying.

Will Han wrote:
I just recently purchased the 16-35, should i return it and wait for the version II? Is it worth the wait? are the improvements worth it? Im kinda stuck on what to do. Im not worried about the filter size to much. Does anyone know when the actual release date is? Thanks in advance.




Mar 05, 2007 at 02:14 AM
Yakim Peled
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p.11 #14 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


Will Han wrote:
I just recently purchased the 16-35, should i return it and wait for the version II? Is it worth the wait? are the improvements worth it?


1. Nobody in this forum - or any other internet forum - knows.
2. "Worth" is a subjective word. Is it worth paying more for a BMW when Toyota is almost as good?



Mar 05, 2007 at 03:37 AM
BeeMan458
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p.11 #15 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


The idea of a master sticky thread is for the purpose of a singular subject. If you wish to discuss anything else of personal interest, start your own thread. It ain't hard, just click on the button labeled "New Topic." The idea of keeping a master sticky thread close to the vest is so folks don't have to wade through a hundred posts of "Canon makes sucky lenses." or "My CZ's da bomb." and that folks who come to read an intentionally stuck, front page top thread, will read information pertinent to the master thread heading.

What's a matter guys, too chicken to start your own thread? I smell fear. Too chicken to start and monitor your own thread? Afraid that nobody will come and post? Afraid your thread will leave the front page in less than half a day so you gotta hang out and abuse an item specific thread, for your benefit?

I sure wish Jeff would stop by and make note of what his expectations are of "his" sticky thread. That would be nice. Maybe I'm all wet and should be talking about how happy I am with Sigma lenses and how Canon's wasting our time/money and how Sigma and Tamron are sure to respond with a lense equally as good, at a third of the price. I know, has nothing to do with the 16-35 II but hey, it's a free thread according you some of you folks here and staying on topic, why that's just an anal inconvenience for overly controlling personalities in serious need of heavy medication.

I know some of you will have trouble with this next comment, but it's called "respect." Respect for the forum and the purpose and benefit of a sticky thread but I know, keeping your urges in check, get's in the way of your fun and we can't have that; "Don't fence me in."

Jeff, what say you? Cause if Jeff don't care, I don't care.



Mar 05, 2007 at 08:14 AM
Andi Dietrich
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p.11 #16 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


I owned and own quite a few ALTERNATIVE lenses. I dropped my 17-40L and the 16-35L, used some ZEISS lenses and now the NIKKOR 17-35, which I like better I do not really miss AF, of course that is just me. There is also the CONTAX N 17-35 lens, expensive but fine. Altogether I think Canon designed some of the best glass around, though I had issues with their Canon wa zoom lenses, the 17-40L came decentred, the old 16-35L was good at the long end, though I guess the 24-105 is better here.
I hopefully the Mk II will perform much better at the short end, otherwise I 'll keep on shooting my ALTERNATIVE ZEISS and NIKKOR lenses, maybe getting the conurus converted CONTAX N lens. I cant wait to see some real live comparisions with the upcoming 16-35II against any ALTERNATIVE lenses, like the ZEISS 28 and 21mm lenses or the NIKKOR 17-35.

All together my compliments go to Canon. Reading the white paper of the 1d3, I see they improved where they needed to. sRAW, live view, less noise and the new 16-35 are most welcome and IMO a real upgrade. Now a great 18mm prime lens would make Canon's lens line up perfect.



Mar 05, 2007 at 09:19 AM
justruss
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p.11 #17 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm assuming that the " 'Master' EF 16-35 f/2.8L II" thread is about all things concerning the new 16-35LII... including comparisions, hopes and dreams (seeing as no one has the lens yet and we already have a master), complaints, positives, negatives, ya know, all stuff "related" to the new lens.

And related to the new lens can be someone saying: sure hope this closes the gap with the CZ 21, or, my old 16-35L was fine I'm not paying for an upgrade, or, my new version is already on order because I can't wait for the upgrades dictated by the MTF charts.

I don't see what's wrong with any of that. And considering that the 16-35 (rightly or not) is much maligned, it is a big question (at least to me) as to how this new copy stacks up to the competition.

Personally, I'm hoping that we see a major improvement over the old copy, over the 17-40L. I'm hoping we see the gap narrowed with the CZ-- that's a pertinent questions, really-- and I definitely appreciate all the thoughts and opinions put forth about what this lens will or will not be.

Again, it's not like someone is going off on a tangent comparing the CZ 21 to, say, the Oly 21 with no mention of the Canon L Zoom, is it?

No lens exists in a bubble, surely not the 16-35L judging by all the discussion, hate and love it creates in members here. We've already created more noise on here talking about what is and is not appropriate to the thread-- anything else off topic has been just a drop in the pond.

So, what do you think... will the new 16-35L win back some CZ 21 converts? or at least put up one more barrier to those thinking of jumping the canon WZ Zoom ship?

I think so.



Mar 05, 2007 at 09:21 AM
BeeMan458
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p.11 #18 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


Being that I'm using a FOVC sensor, I don't have issues with the 16-35 MkI but not being the fool, never would I turn down any improvement in micro-contrast or issues surrounding barrel distortion, vignetting and CA. All of these issues hold my attention, irrespective of which lense I use or who makes the lense.

Assuming that there are "noticeable" improvements, as listed above, yes, after the dust has settled, I'm in for a decent copy. I wonder if Canon is going put the "ky-bosh" on the manufacturing QC problems that the 16-35Mk I is well known to be plagued by?

Got no problem with folks being critical of Canon or the 16-35.

I'm surprised Canon hasn't released a series of full size files created when using a 1D3 and this wonder of a newly announced lense. Should cause one pause at this point.

Hmmmmmmmm!



Mar 05, 2007 at 09:29 AM
Yakim Peled
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p.11 #19 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


All I want to know is when will they introduce the 20/2.8 Mk II and 24/1.4 Mk II.


Mar 05, 2007 at 09:54 AM
Jeff
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p.11 #20 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


BeeMan458 wrote:
I sure wish Jeff would stop by and make note of what his expectations are of "his" sticky thread. That would be nice...

...Jeff, what say you? Cause if Jeff don't care, I don't care.


I don't care.

The bottom line is that discussing the optical merits of a lens no one has is, at this point, only a little bit more sane than discussing the features of un-announced products in the Rumor Threads. It's the •Hands-On• threads that I care about keeping on topic, as they contain real data from real users in the field.

I would prefer that completely off-topic banter not be a large percentage of any of these threads, but I admit I've read few of the pages above in relation to the lens, even though one is in my future. I'll reserve my reading time for when the lens is actually shipping.

That's just my $0.02, and don't let anyone tell you it's worth any more than that!

Jeff
FM.com Moderator



Mar 05, 2007 at 11:23 AM
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