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Archive 2007 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

  
 
Geoff Costello
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p.8 #1 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


Gib Robinson wrote:
No mention of a 1.3x sensor in the 1 series. Does that mean Canon will not produce a follow-on to the 1D Mk II?

I noticed that too. Perhaps thats one of the two 1 series Canon were working on, with FF released first and the 1.3 crop sports for later? Unless they were experimenting with a combined FF and 1.3 crop, keeping the 1.3 crop as a backup in case the combined sensor techmoogy didn't work. But this seems unlikely given the current big price differential between the 1D and 1Ds - you'ld have the 1D owners up in arms if they had to pay 1Ds prices... If the "source" is correct we should know in 6 weeks or so...



Jan 17, 2007 at 08:05 AM
Geoff Costello
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p.8 #2 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


Yakim Peled wrote:
It has just occurred to me. Do you think the new DSLRs will finally outresolve film?

Canons Full Frame "White paper" claims they do already (preumably the 1Ds). Certainly my 5D beats most film now to my eyes except the 50 or 100 ISO very high quality stock you need to keep refrigrated. So I would guess a new 1 series FF sensor at (say) the often separately rumoured 22mp (or whatever) would be even better.



Jan 17, 2007 at 08:09 AM
Yakim Peled
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p.8 #3 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


Pixel Perfect wrote:
It must be worrying for Canon how consistently reviews are placing the 400D/30D behind the D80/D200 even in the area of IQ only above ISO 800 do the Canons pull ahead. Given the sales figures too, I expect a 12 month cycle for the 30D as it really is a 2 year cycle given the 30D was really a point release for the 20D. But only 10.2MP IMO, Canon won't be able to deliver 12MP in a 1.6x crop and maintain it's lead in the noise stakes and DR will suffer too.

40D and 1D III @ PMA, 5D II
...Show more


16-50 f/2.8L IS? Shame on you Whayne. You have just made me wet myself...



Jan 17, 2007 at 08:12 AM
Gerry Szarek
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p.8 #4 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


Well, my 2 cents worth, we get a really cheap entry 1.6 DSLR priced at $300, horrible interface but CHEAP at 6Mp, the high end version goes to 10Mp for $900. The 5D gets split to 2 cameras, a cheaper version of the current one down at $1500 or so, smaller buffer, lower frame rate this kills the 30D. The second version of the 5D gets a real 45 pt AF, 5 fps, 30 shot buffer, and for a mere cost of $2500. The 1DmkII becomes a 10fps, full frame 10MP or so. The 1Ds goes to 25 MP.

I also predict that Nikon releases are really cheap DSLR at $300, ditto Pentax and Sony.

Gerry



Jan 17, 2007 at 08:13 AM
tootalew
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p.8 #5 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


I would hope they announce that they have teamed up with Zeiss and we can all get some AF CZ's on our cameras



Jan 17, 2007 at 09:01 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.8 #6 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


Given Geoff's comments and the need to be competitive let me suggest the following guesses about what cameras Canon may role out and when:

2007 PMA:
1DMKIII - at least 12 megapixel APS-H, 10 frames per second, bigger buffer, much better battery, Digic III lots of small improvements.
40D - 10 megapixel APS-C, at least 15 point autofocus with better spot metering, bigger buffer, Digic III, anti-dust, etc.
5D price cut to about $2,300 or $2,400

June, 2007 (maybe a low level consumer DSLR to be better than D40 and anything Sony offers)

Fall 2007:
1DSMKIII - 22 megapixel full frame, 7 frames per second, huge buffer, Digic III, much better battery, lots of small improvements.
New body (maybe 3D?) - better body build but still smaller form factor than ID (partial weather sealing?) 10 megapixel APS-H, 7 frames per second, 20 to 25 point autofocus, excellent spot metering, big buffer, Digic III. Price: $1,600. It will be positioned to be clearly better than the D200 (and hopefully its successor)

2008 PMA:

5DII - 16 megapixel full frame, 5 frames per second, bigger buffer, Digic III - price still Drops to $2,000 to $2,200

June 2008 - likely a 450D and exactly configuration is likely to be highly dependent on competition

2008 Photokina -

50D - at least 10 megapixel APH-S, 5 frames per second, slightly better autofocus, and other small improvements

November - likely a revision of ultra low cost consumer camera if Canon decides to compete in this market

2009 PMA -

3D (mkII?) - 16 megapixel full frame, 7 frames per second, Digic IV?, other stuff not yet thought about. 5D is phased out

1D MkIV - fovean sensor? - really hard to predict here

Fall 2009

1Ds MkIV - fovean sensor? maybe 22 megapixel full frame? - who knows

2010 PMA

60D becomes full frame

Of course this gets sketchy as it gets further out, but the basic premise is that Canon will have 2 consumer, 2 prosumer, and 2 pro cameras. At the consumer and prosumer level they will try to position them so that they have a model that is cheaper than their competitors (typically by $200 to $250) that they can credibly argue is equivalent to the higher priced competition, and that they will have a model that is $200 to $250 more than the competition that they can credibly argue is considerably better than the slightly lower priced competition. The pro cameras also need to stay well ahead of the prosumer cameras. These principles seem likely to drive any reasonable upgrade path.


Edit: sorry I had the dates all screwed up.

Edited by Steve Spencer on Jan 17, 2007 at 11:39 AM GMT



Jan 17, 2007 at 11:01 AM
johnastovall
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p.8 #7 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


I seem to have missed the 22mp Canon at the Photokina 2006 LAST FALL.


Jan 17, 2007 at 11:16 AM
wtlloyd
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p.8 #8 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


Better take a look at your post, Steve.

And, I believe Photokina is held once every two years. The next photokina Cologne – World of Imaging – will take place from Tuesday, September 23 to Sunday, September 28, 2008.



Jan 17, 2007 at 11:26 AM
Roy NN7DX
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p.8 #9 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


Isn't it about time for a pro version of the 1.6x crop camera?



Jan 17, 2007 at 11:33 AM
Philippe Arnez
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p.8 #10 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


I've also seem to have missed some stuff last year

But as long as the 5DII comes like described at PMA 2007, I'm happy



Jan 17, 2007 at 11:37 AM
Beni
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p.8 #11 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


There are no pro crop lenses so it follows that there won't be any pro crop cameras, canon wants to sell L lenses to pros not cheaper consumer lenses so I doubt they will market a crop camera as pro.
EVERYTHING from canon is saying that they want to move everything but entry level to full frame, although that may take a while still, to the consternation of the amatuers who can't afford longer glass, there isn't a chance in hell that canon will make a pro 1.6X body. Wishful thinking but somehow only coming from amatuers...

What is annoying me is that there must be hundreds upon hundreds of people from the boardroom through to factory floor workers through to all the suppliers, etc who actually know what is happening, who know what the specs of the 40D, etc will be. Is there no disgruntled employee out there who wants to give us some real info? So far we have 19 pages of wishlists and not one single decent and plausable rumour to really fight about! Remember the 5D rumour wars? Now that was real fun!



Jan 17, 2007 at 11:51 AM
dturina
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p.8 #12 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


As long as we're dreaming, here's my wish list for Canon:

- Improved wide angle lenses. No geometric distortions, corner softness and similar stuff on 17-40 f/4L, please. Wide angle lineup should be brought up to higher standards.
- Weather sealing should be standard on all lenses except the cheapos. Come on Canon, Olympus does that on their 4/3 lineup and it's great.
- Weather sealing on all bodies except entry level. This means 30d successor and 5d successor. Pentax does it, Olympus does it, Nikon does it, Canon should do it.
- Quality control on the lenses is a disaster, it should be improved significantly. Don't tell me the price would go up, I'm talking about expensive L zooms where sometimes you need to try several copies to get a good one. This should never happen.

That's about it.



Jan 17, 2007 at 12:04 PM
JohnLL
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p.8 #13 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


EOS20 wrote:
I rekon Canon will eventually add new lines to there digital range and follow a similar lineup as they use to have in the film days.

My predictions for the future digital lineup:

*EOS 3000D - Entry level APS-C to compeate against Nikon D40
*EOS 400D/500D - A mid range entry level model
*EOS 40D/50D - A Premium APS-C camera
*EOS 6D/7D - Entry/Mid range Full frame model
*EOS 3D - Premium semi pro full frame. Or APS-H sensor (If Canon continues with APS-H).
*EOS 1Ds/1D2n merge into one camera - Flagship pro full frame camera

I would also like to see a pellicle mirror 1D for sports/action
...Show more

All this would make a lot of sense, but I don't think more than a small fraction of it will be for 2007



Jan 17, 2007 at 01:05 PM
darknite
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p.8 #14 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


I don't know.... Normally yes, thats alot for a years worth of products. BUT this is Canon's 70th, and the EOS/EF 20th What a way to celebrate! New stuff every 6 weeks. (leaves time for all products to be in stores for Christmas)

So, for any Canon old timers, did they do anything Spectacular for the 60th? Obviously the EOS system was for the 50th.


JohnLL wrote:
All this would make a lot of sense, but I don't think more than a small fraction of it will be for 2007




Jan 17, 2007 at 01:13 PM
JohnLL
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p.8 #15 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


Beni wrote:
There are no pro crop lenses so it follows that there won't be any pro crop cameras, canon wants to sell L lenses to pros not cheaper consumer lenses so I doubt they will market a crop camera as pro.

Not sure this really follows. Most users of Canon "pro"-line cameras will have a FF camera too. The 1.6x camera does not *have* to have EFs lenses, it will mostly share glass with the FF camera(s).
I doubt if many pros would buy EFs lenses that can't be used on their 1.25x and FF cameras.



Jan 17, 2007 at 01:19 PM
hankk
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p.8 #16 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


IMO, its more likely that Canon will come out with a FF sensor with the same pixel pitch as the 1.6 crop sensor than a pro-body 1.6 crop camera. The user can always crop out a piece of the middle of the image, and is not limited to 1.6x.


Jan 17, 2007 at 01:27 PM
Matmi
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p.8 #17 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


What have you guys heard/read about long lenses ?

I'm thinking about buying the 500 f/4 but I'm concerned about its size/weight that would limit its use for me.

I'd love to see a 400 f/4 IS (IS is important...), even above $3,000. Any chance ?



Jan 17, 2007 at 01:47 PM
e.s.sandusky
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p.8 #18 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


you won't see a 400 f4IS for 3k......I would think more like $4500


Jan 17, 2007 at 02:01 PM
dinoadventures
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p.8 #19 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


dturina wrote:
As long as we're dreaming, here's my wish list for Canon:

- Improved wide angle lenses. No geometric distortions, corner softness and similar stuff on 17-40 f/4L, please. Wide angle lineup should be brought up to higher standards.
- Weather sealing should be standard on all lenses except the cheapos. Come on Canon, Olympus does that on their 4/3 lineup and it's great.
- Weather sealing on all bodies except entry level. This means 30d successor and 5d successor. Pentax does it, Olympus does it, Nikon does it, Canon should do it.
- Quality control on the lenses is a disaster, it should be
...Show more

Best wish list ever. I think this isn't unreasonable at all. The fact that much smaller companies like Sigma and Olympus can make wides that make L lenses look like trash is an embarassment.

QC has gone directly to hell. Lots of dust specs inside L lenses and pro bodies rife with dust? What's that about? Copy variance is absurd. Things like the 17-40L, though, I doubt they would ever address because they sell such ludicrous quantities of them to people coming off kit lenses that they're blown away by such a mediocre lens since it's all so relative. So you get lots of people who think it's great and save up to buy more L's and the mediocrity continues.

On the R&D tip, they really don't have anything too adventurous coming out like the third parties. It seems after all the other manufacturers kick the tires (like Nikon's 17-55) then Canon releases it last and for more money. Sigma does more in terms of pushing the envelope with lenses like the 20 1.8, 30 1.4, and 12-24 (FF). The market is there, but I guess their bean counters think it'll take too long to recoup the R&D costs. The fact that they've still released only a half dozen crop sensor lenses really shows lots of commitment to EF-S. They don't just want their cost back, they want it back fast and that's why development sucks. Thank goodness for third parties.



Jan 17, 2007 at 02:05 PM
Tom_W
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p.8 #20 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


JohnLL wrote:
Not sure this really follows. Most users of Canon "pro"-line cameras will have a FF camera too. The 1.6x camera does not *have* to have EFs lenses, it will mostly share glass with the FF camera(s).
I doubt if many pros would buy EFs lenses that can't be used on their 1.25x and FF cameras.


While I'm generally a full-frame advocate, I will venture to say that there are a lot of professional photographers out there working with 20D's and 30D's. I know that the Chattanooga Times Free Press, for example, has 20D's for at least some of their photographers. And there are a number of wedding shooters using the 1.6 cameras as well.

Price is a driving factor, of course. Full-frame is still fairly expensive, and if you're operating on a tight budget, you may not be able to splurge for the larger sensor.

Bottom line is that I see at least 2 levels of 1.6 cameras for the foreseeable future (unless Canon can bring out a 5D-level camera for $1500). The market wants it, and Canon will respond to the market.



Jan 17, 2007 at 02:25 PM
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