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Archive 2007 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

  
 
dcmiller
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p.42 #1 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


vachss wrote:
While I don't think a new lens mount is needed, just suppose that achieving sufficient resolution at the edge of the full frame required increasing the diameter of the image circle. That in turn could require a mount/geometry change. So while I don't think a change from the EF mount is likely at this point, it's not totally illogical.


- the original "annie" post is in Luminous Landscape. It was the posters first post. That thread also contains an angry reply from the OP.

- If it's not made up, the Canon rep told him nothing. I suspect he heard why the Canon rep was on the set. Do photo shoots have "5th assistants"? Sounds like he was a grip who had to leave the set once it was ready to shoot

- why would A.L. care about a new unreleased digi? Her first assistant would, however.

- "a little bit bigger mount" probably means a bigger hole and redesigned wides. It may also change from 3:2 to 4:3. I would be shocked if it wasn't an EF variant, like EF-W that would work with existing lenses, perhaps with some kind of on-camera adapter. But it may not use all the sensor pixels, depending on the lens.

- 22mp bayer 35mm would not create a rush to produce a new lens line, as several people have pointed out.

- Super Bowl approaches in the US. This is the first week there's a chance for a high-end announcement. Wouldn't it be funny if Nikon was the one with the big announcement. If there's a 1DIIn replacement for Spring, this would be the week.

- I also believe there's going to be some slick connectivity with the next Canon high end. Better wifi integration for sure, but maybe bluetooth too. If it's not "slick", it's because Canon doesn't have the right people to pull it off. But there's a lot of demand/need in this area.

- have you noticed the leaks coming out of the Netherlands, and Canon reorganizing that office? hmmmm. (I think the store leaks may be a publicity stunt, but there was way too much dutch talking pre-Photokina)



Jan 29, 2007 at 09:37 AM
Tentacle
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p.42 #2 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


Bluetooth for a high-end camera is a very definate Houston, Abort Launch!

BT 1.1 and 1.2 spec push a tiny 723.1 Kbit/s. BT2.0 can, in best-case scenarios triple that to 2.1 Mbit/s. (According to the Wikipedia entry.) The same wiki mentions 3 Mbps too for BT 2.0.

That's roughly 4 seconds for every megabyte you want to transfer. Will that work for the high end? I don't think so. Maybe when UWB/Wireless USB/BT3 comes around.



Jan 29, 2007 at 09:59 AM
phibes
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p.42 #3 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


BT for imagetransfer would be nonsense ... but you could control the camera, connect it to a GPS-device, maybe control flashes or whatever ...


Jan 29, 2007 at 10:10 AM
dcmiller
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p.42 #4 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


The answer for file transfer eventually is going to be wide band short range wireless. If and when they get the power requirements down. Bluetooth could be used for untethered camera control (including jpegs). The problem with 802.11n, oddly, may be having the camera too close to the receiver. I'm not sure how the antennas would be handled, either.
I would also like BT to write latitude/longitude.from a GPS. I don't want GPS in my camera.



Jan 29, 2007 at 10:21 AM
dcmiller
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p.42 #5 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


Tentacle wrote:
Bluetooth for a high-end camera is a very definate Houston, Abort Launch!

BT 1.1 and 1.2 spec push a tiny 723.1 Kbit/s. BT2.0 can, in best-case scenarios triple that to 2.1 Mbit/s. (According to the Wikipedia entry.) The same wiki mentions 3 Mbps too for BT 2.0.

That's roughly 4 seconds for every megabyte you want to transfer. Will that work for the high end? I don't think so. Maybe when UWB/Wireless USB/BT3 comes around.


I'm sure real-world it would be nowhere near 4 seconds/MB. The proponents of these types of products always exaggerate.



Jan 29, 2007 at 10:25 AM
Tentacle
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p.42 #6 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


Ah, ok, good points. I didn't think about BT for GPS or remote control purposes. That may be a vialable option.

My phone, together with a Class 1 BT dongle, can get up to 150-200 kb/sec, so more towards 5 or 6 seconds per MB. That wouldn't work for file transfers.



Jan 29, 2007 at 10:37 AM
dcmiller
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p.42 #7 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


The smaller camera with an optional grip makes a lot of sense. Multiple grips containing various options. This is consistent with the "system approach" rumored in the fall. I believed that rumor, and I guess I still do (just the timing was off). It allows Canon to separate the camera from stuff like bluetooth, 802.11, wireless USB, flash control, remote camera control, expresso maker, whatever. Want a real light camera? no grip Want a camera with cell connection? Fine it's in the grip.
Canon loves the high-markup accessories. It also much drive them nuts discussing what functions should be included in the camera. The solution would seem to be a "systems approach". The camera part is.....just a camera. Build a tight mechanical and logical interface to the other stuff. (But make the interface really hard to reverse engineer.)
Then they can come out with more specialized cameras, and not worry about all the extras. Want a quiet non-SLR live preview camera, fine. They just build the camera part that way.
Canon wants all our money. I think this is how they will get it. And if not them, someone else.



Jan 29, 2007 at 10:50 AM
Joel Slack
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p.42 #8 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


Maybe the 5D was intended in part to test the market for a smaller 1-series, high mp pro camera?


Jan 29, 2007 at 04:52 PM
JohnLL
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p.42 #9 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


This thread has broken the needle barrier ...


Jan 29, 2007 at 04:54 PM
Monito
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p.42 #10 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


dcmiller wrote:
If it's not made up, the Canon rep told him nothing. I suspect he heard why the Canon rep was on the set. Do photo shoots have "5th assistants"?


At AL's level and Vanity Fair's budget and given the logistics involved, five assistants are required. Yes, the fifth assistant mostly carries and unpacks and packs.

dcmiller wrote:
"a little bit bigger mount" probably means a bigger hole and redesigned wides. It may also change from 3:2 to 4:3. I would be shocked if it wasn't an EF variant, like EF-W that would work with existing lenses, perhaps with some kind of on-camera adapter. But it may not use all the sensor pixels, depending on the lens.


I agree. Canon will not make a bigger mount and will not obsolete the EF mount. Canon wisely made the mount the biggest and the most set back of all the 35mm format SLRs. Thus Canon is the universal acceptor, but Canon lenses can't be adapted to other bodies. Now that the body is the film and has a bigger investment for digital, this decision is even wiser.

Canon can add a variation on EF, which I earlier in this thread dubbed EF-Plus or EF+ and you have dubbed EF-W. By analogy with EF-S (which was a step down in image circle) a step up in image circle size would mean EF lenses would not work on EF+ cameras but EF+ would work on FullFrame and crop factor cameras. I had thought that there would be a mount interlock that would prevent EF from mounting on the bigger sensor, but it occurs to me that Canon could mount them and automatically adjust the viewfinder and crop electronically.

dcmiller wrote:
22mp bayer 35mm would not create a rush to produce a new lens line, as several people have pointed out.


Not exactly a rush, but the sensors already existing show up the deficits in the current lineup already, so 22 MPixels would exacerbate that situation. However, the possibility of a bigger image circle could lead to even more Mpixels. A 51mm image circle would encompass 36 x 36 mm. The Leaf Aptus 75 is 48 x 36 mm for a diameter of 60mm. It has 33 MPixels at a pitch of 7.2 microns, the same as the 1DsII. At the pitch of a 400D XTi, (conceivable), that would be 52 MPixels, but we are not likely to see that for a while, leastways in a Canon. In any case, with a 60mm image circle diameter it would not look like half the size of a 1DsII, and the lenses would look different too.

dcmiller wrote:
Super Bowl approaches in the US. This is the first week there's a chance for a high-end announcement. Wouldn't it be funny if Nikon was the one with the big announcement. If there's a 1DIIn replacement for Spring, this would be the week.


Super Bowl is such a zoo any announcement is likely to get drowned in potato chips and beer. Let Nikon compete with the frogs. So I don't think Canon would make their big announcement until after, but just before PMA, unless they decide to announce at the end of summer. A new 1DIIn would be not be of the same order, and would make more sense to announce just before Super Bowl due to the specialization of sports photographers, but I'm skeptical that it would be upgraded so soon in the cycle. It was only introduced last year.



Jan 29, 2007 at 05:21 PM
The Duck
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p.42 #11 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


Guess Hasselblad didn't get the memo about no announcements this week (a month before PMA): 31Meg, 48mm full-frame DSLR for the "professional mobile photographer". I can't help wonder how excited Leibovitz really is about a 22Meg from Canon.

Hopefully Canon will focus on the sub-$25k/body market...and also that they didn't get the memo about no announcements this week too!

Be seeing you,
The Duck

ps - read about the serious high-end studio competition here: http://www.hasselblad.com/news/hasselblad-launches-the-h3d-31.aspx


Hasselblad Launches the H3D-31, the high-end DSLR camera system of choice for the professional mobile photographer

Hasselblad today extends the appeal of its outstanding H3D DSLR camera system to a new professional photographic audience with the launch of the Hasselblad H3D-31, the 31 megapixel version of the H3D-39, the world’s first 48mm full-frame DSLR camera system. Featuring near full-frame capture, the H3D-31 uses a 44×33mm sensor enhanced with micro-lenses to boost ISO rating one stop to a new maximum of ISO 800. The system’s new high-speed capture architecture, which is common to all H3D models and enables the fastest possible operation, also gives the H3D-31 an impressive capture rate of 1.2 seconds per image in either mobile or tethered mode. These features give the H3D-31 the highest burst rate of the H3D family and make it the camera of choice for the professional mobile photographer.

Christian Poulsen, CEO of Hasselblad comments: “To date, we’ve introduced the H3D-39 and H3D-22 and, in doing so, have set new standards in image quality and lens performance for digital SLR cameras. Offering a full-frame, 48x36mm sensor and unique features, such as Hasselblad’s Natural Color Solution, Digital Auto Correction and Instant Approval Architecture, the H3D-39 and H3D-22 deliver unsurpassed image quality, including moiré-free color rendering, and have become the cameras that professional commercial photographers aspire to.
With the introduction of the H3D-31, we’re now looking to address the needs of professional mobile photographers, whose work may encompass shooting a variety of subjects on location, but who still want the image quality that high-end 35mm DSLRs don’t offer. We’re confident that the H3D-31’s additional photographic flexibility, including its faster ISO rating and faster capture rate, will make it a very attractive proposition for the professional mobile photographer.”
Developed around a brand new digital camera engine, the H3D takes lens performance and image sharpness to new levels. By focusing solely on digital camera architecture, Hasselblad is able to offer photographers the full benefits of professional medium-format digital cameras as well as the ease of use of the best 35mm DSLRs. When compared with high-end 35mm DSLRs, the H3D delivers unmatched pixel resolution, better colors and detail rendering and a new choice of viewfinders for creative image composition. The H3D-22 and its nearly double-resolution H3D-39 counterpart are both full frame 48mm DSLR’s using the sensor format 36×48mm. These cameras operate up to ISO400 with a capture speed of up to 1.4 seconds per capture. The H3D-22 and H3D-39 are the preferred choice of professional commercial photographers.

The H3D design has also made possible the launch of a completely new 28mm lens, designed and optimized solely for digital image capture. Image quality is lifted to a level, yet unseen in digital photography, including digital correction for color aberration and distortion (see the image quality at www.hasselblad.com/products/hasselblad-star-quality ). The result is flexibility for the professional photographer, including the freedom to choose between eye-level and waist-level viewfinders, digitally APO corrected lenses, and on-the-fly classification of images. The H3D offers photographers the freedom to work with film to allow shooting under extreme conditions, and Hasselblad’s Natural Color Solution delivers out-of-the-box image quality only achievable in a true digital camera system.

The new H3D-31 is available immediately worldwide through Hasselblad’s national subsidiaries and channel partners with a retail price of 24,995 US$ or 19,900 Euros.



Jan 29, 2007 at 05:38 PM
johnastovall
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p.42 #12 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


Hasselblad had however moved to a closed system which may deter many.

www.luminous-landscape.com/photokina/H3-concerns.shtml



Jan 29, 2007 at 05:45 PM
dcmiller
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p.42 #13 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


Hy6 is closed too.

What with the duck. Who said no announcements this week? I hate the way Hasselblad runs its U.S. business. I hope they and their "full frame" crop camera does poorly.



Jan 29, 2007 at 06:05 PM
Monito
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p.42 #14 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


Hasselblad's highest burst rate is 0.8 frames per second, but you have to pony up twenty five thousand dollars to get that fast.



Jan 29, 2007 at 07:18 PM
The Duck
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p.42 #15 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


Hasselblad's highest burst rate is 0.8 frames per second, but you have to pony up twenty five thousand dollars to get that fast.

HaHaHa...yeah, those studio models are really moving quickly!!!! Did'ya notice a difference between the marketing focus of Canon's 1D and 1Ds camera bodies? You guys quack me up!!!!!

Be seeing you,
The Duck



Jan 29, 2007 at 09:30 PM
cwphoto
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p.42 #16 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


Monito wrote:
A new 1DIIn would be not be of the same order, and would make more sense to announce just before Super Bowl due to the specialization of sports photographers, but I'm skeptical that it would be upgraded so soon in the cycle. It was only introduced last year.


The replacement for the 'N' is a given: FF and 12MP is the mail.

Oh and one high end L lens. Apart from that I dunno.



Jan 29, 2007 at 10:04 PM
lordcarl
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p.42 #17 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


March 1, 1987 was the date the Canon EOS System was launched, with the EOS 650 and a line-up of 15 EF lenses, mostly variable-aperture zoom lenses and a few primes listed as "available soon".

Which means the 20th anniversary of the EOS System falls on March 1, 2007.

That's another 29 days of pre-PMA rumours/hypes that we can come up with via these forums to whet our appetite while waiting for the official announcements!

I predict over the next two weeks there will be people here who might know the selected few dozens (mostly pro photogs and technical editors) that will receive an exclusive invitation from the local Canon office to celebrate the occasion on this date.



Jan 29, 2007 at 11:12 PM
Monito
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p.42 #18 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


Monito wrote:
Hasselblad's highest burst rate is 0.8 frames per second, but you have to pony up twenty five thousand dollars to get that fast.


The Duck wrote:
HaHaHa...yeah, those studio models are really moving quickly!!!! Did'ya notice a difference between the marketing focus of Canon's 1D and 1Ds camera bodies? You guys quack me up!!!!!


I am fully aware of the difference in the marketing of the 1D and 1Ds, but your sneering doesn't advance the discussion. You are new here (four posts) and I suggest you get with the program here, which is a little more civil than most internet forums and chat rooms you may be familiar with.

I don't think you've done much studio fashion photography at all. I haven't, but I know that the photographers want as little to get in the way of the shoot as possible. When you've got three 600 dollar an hour models and you have assistants and overhead and two art directors and a hair stylist and a makeup artist and a wardrobe wrangler and a set decorator and office staff and an accountant breathing down your neck, you don't want to wait around for flash or camera for hundreds of shots. Remember the 0.8 frames per second is the fastest they offer. Before that they were proud of 0.7 per second.



Jan 29, 2007 at 11:17 PM
dcmiller
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p.42 #19 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


I think you are arguing with a 16 year old.


Jan 29, 2007 at 11:41 PM
Quercus
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p.42 #20 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread


The Duck wrote:
Guess Hasselblad didn't get the memo about no announcements this week (a month before PMA): 31Meg, 48mm full-frame DSLR for the "professional mobile photographer". I can't help wonder how excited Leibovitz really is about a 22Meg from Canon.

Hopefully Canon will focus on the sub-$25k/body market...and also that they didn't get the memo about no announcements this week too!

Be seeing you,
The Duck


I don't see how they can call this "full-frame." This is based on 645, which is 60mm x 45mm. That would be like Canon calling their APS-H cameras full-frame.



Jan 29, 2007 at 11:44 PM
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