Antony wrote:
OK, so consolidating a few more rumours.
THe new 1DsIII has 22MP plus a crop mode enabling 8.5fps or higher. It also has 100-3200 ISO (expandable to 50 and 6400). It may have in camera HDR.
The 1D line disappears, to be replaced by the new 3D, at 12MP, FF, weathersealed, and 8.5 fps - like a beefed up 5D
The 5D remains but drops in price to compete with the D200.
No replacement to the 30D - when it finally does come it will be FF, and at the D200 price.
Sounds interesting to me.
There are a few problems with those rumours... In no particular order:
Why on earth would Canon drop the incredibly well known 1D series designation Every dSLR enthousiast, even the non-Canon shooters, know that 1D = professional bullet-proof brick. I am not saying it will not be done, but can someone explain WHY Canon would possibly abandon such a strong point of instant recognition? A 1D isn't a 1Ds, so why kick the 1D out of that line-up?
How can a 5D drop enough in price to compete with a D200? A full frame sensor costs 10 to 20 times as much as a comparable APS-C sized counterpart, so it is quite a stretch to expect a 5D to be going for D200 money anytime soon. Did I miss something important regarding full frame sensor production cost reductions?
30D ... well, Okay, maybe not a successor yet at PMA. The 30D, as a model, is only 12 months old, still half a year away from its ancestorial product cycle of 18 months. Yet the internals, and most of the specs, are of 20D breed, and thus 30 months old. And that shows in sales numbers.
Will the 30D successor need something special, other than just the obligatory upgrade to 10 Mpixel? Yes, it sure looks like that, otherwise it will get mauled by the existing (and foreseeable future) 10 Mpixel competition. But full frame? If Canon wants to have an edge, one way is to sit at the economic sweet spot of big sensor size at low cost, which is APS-H, or 1.254x crop mode.
danmitchell wrote:
[credibility] would be important in scholarly writing or even news reporting... but in a "Rumor Thread?" :-)
Of course people can blow smoke all they want in a rumor thread, but when credible people post information (and occasionally they do), then it is important and useful.
Tentacle wrote:
There are a few problems with those rumours... In no particular order:
Why on earth would Canon drop the incredibly well known 1D series designation Every dSLR enthousiast, even the non-Canon shooters, know that 1D = professional bullet-proof brick. I am not saying it will not be done, but can someone explain WHY Canon would possibly abandon such a strong point of instant recognition? A 1D isn't a 1Ds, so why kick the 1D out of that line-up?
How can a 5D drop enough in price to compete with a D200? A full frame sensor costs 10 to 20 times as much as a comparable APS-C sized counterpart, so it is quite a stretch to expect a 5D to be going for D200 money anytime soon. Did I miss something important regarding full frame sensor production cost reductions?
30D ... well, Okay, maybe not a successor yet at PMA. The 30D, as a model, is only 12 months old, still half a year away from its ancestorial product cycle of 18 months. Yet the internals, and most of the specs, are of 20D breed, and thus 30 months old. And that shows in sales numbers.
Will the 30D successor need something special, other than just the obligatory upgrade to 10 Mpixel? Yes, it sure looks like that, otherwise it will get mauled by the existing (and foreseeable future) 10 Mpixel competition. But full frame? If Canon wants to have an edge, one way is to sit at the economic sweet spot of big sensor size at low cost, which is APS-H, or 1.254x crop mode....Show more →
I'm with squidward. It's not a rumor, it's a rationalization of how Canon could act to give some people what they want. Also, the $4500 camera has to be a 1 series. Newspapers and other corporate media buy 1 series.
The list of supposed MF format and lenses is basically an extrapolation of EF with a 1/1.6 reciprocal "crop factor", i.e. EF/EOS would be 1.6 crop of the imagined system. A rather suspicious circumstance. A 200mm f/2 has been thrown into the mix, which looks suspiciously like an attempt to excite all those salivating after a 200mm f/2 for 36x24 format. If Canon hadn't started in on 1.6 crop in DSLR, then 1.414 crop would make more sense, for the same reason that 1.4 makes sense as a factor for teleconverters.
Monito wrote:
The list of supposed MF format and lenses is basically an extrapolation of EF with a 1/1.6 reciprocal "crop factor", i.e. EF/EOS would be 1.6 crop of the imagined system. A rather suspicious circumstance. A 200mm f/2 has been thrown into the mix, which looks suspiciously like an attempt to excite all those salivating after a 200mm f/2 for 36x24 format. If Canon hadn't started in on 1.6 crop in DSLR, then 1.414 crop would make more sense, for the same reason that 1.4 makes sense as a factor for teleconverters.
Those sneaky bastards.
To think that EF lenses might even fully function on the new camera in a crop mode.
Like it would be an entire SYSTEM.
Oh, the inhumanity, the awful consistency
I need to lie down.
Yes, please relax, dcmiller. I've suggested numerous times that it would make sense if (unlike EF-S) a new system would be made so that EF lenses were upwardly compatible in crop mode, including to day. However, unlike some, I never wrote as if I were speaking authoritatively from some source; I always made it clear that I was extrapolating or speculating or imagining.
dcmiller wrote:
It's not like the optical design hasn't been copied by everyone. If actual formulas for the glass is probably becoming antiquated too. It's not like the good old days when the refractive properties of radioactive heavy metals was a good thing.
My understanding is that mamiya america is a separate company, and the do not plan to market the ZD. But I thought I saw vistek in Canada has started stocking the camera. Could be wrong.
Just verified, Vistek, in Canada does have the Mamiya ZD listed on their website. Don't forget that US and Canadian distributors are usually different companies, so just because it's available in Canada, doesn't mean that it will ever be available in the US.
Paul Schmidt wrote:
Just verified, Vistek, in Canada does have the Mamiya ZD listed on their website. Don't forget that US and Canadian distributors are usually different companies, so just because it's available in Canada, doesn't mean that it will ever be available in the US.
Canada isn't an American territory? Who knew? Does Bush know this? You guys are in big trouble.
To be honest, I think that a 10MP 1.3x crop 1DIII would be the most yawn-worthy announcement I can imagine. I can't see anyone upgrading from 1DII to this camera unless there are lots of other new features that override the negligible increase in resolution.
Come on - Canon has had almost 3 years to work out a substantive improvement to the 1D. The best they can do is 10MP? I don't think so.
He's got it wrong
Sorry, I'm heavily invested in lil' Erwin.
9.6 mp 10-12fps in crop mode
12mp overall
If the full sensor is 12 Mpixel and the crop is 9.6 mpixel, then the crop factor is 1.1. That, as they say, does not compute.
Crop factor is length ratio, or width ratio. Mpixel ratio is equal to the surface ratio. The latter two are cropfactor squared: Full frame is (1.6)² times the area of 1.6x crop.
So, an APS-H (1.254x) crop from a 12 Mpixel image is 12 / (1.254)² = 12 / 1.57 = 7.6 Mpixel.
Edited by Tentacle on Feb 18, 2007 at 02:08 AM GMT (Reason: typo)
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To be honest, I think that a 10MP 1.3x crop 1DIII would be the most yawn-worthy announcement I can imagine. I can't see anyone upgrading from 1DII to this camera unless there are lots of other new features that override the negligible increase in resolution.
Come on - Canon has had almost 3 years to work out a substantive improvement to the 1D. The best they can do is 10MP? I don't think so.
That's what I thought - and I said so in the thread on dpreview - but this guy has a better track record on prediction than I do!
Regards,
Antony wrote:
To be honest, I think that a 10MP 1.3x crop 1DIII would be the most yawn-worthy announcement I can imagine. I can't see anyone upgrading from 1DII to this camera unless there are lots of other new features that override the negligible increase in resolution.
Come on - Canon has had almost 3 years to work out a substantive improvement to the 1D. The best they can do is 10MP? I don't think so.
I agree. The camera crop well done is elegant. Here's you camera crop, here's your full frame higher mp - all in the same camera. Otherwise, who cares?
danmitchell wrote:
"So I wish people would stop referring to MF"
Maybe we should call it...
- FTFFFBLFTRMF ("Fuller Than Full Frame Format But Less Full Than Real Medium Format)
- SMF ("Semi Medium Format" or "Small Medium Format")
- LTFFF ("Larger Than Full Frame Format")
- EFF ("Enhanced Full Frame")
Most kidding aside, maybe just DMF ("Digital Medium Format")
All kidding aside, I think most people understand that digital "medium format" almost never is the same as film medium format, which itself is actually a collection of formats. Even the so-called MF backs have sensors that are smaller than MF film. Maybe the concept of MF simply expands to take in even more formats that it already encompasses.
Back to work...
Edited by danmitchell on Feb 17, 2007 at 02:35 PM GMT...Show more →
Does sensor size really mean all that much? It's a big deal in film, because a larger "sensor" area in film means a lower magnification factor to get a certain size print, however this doesn't apply in digital. Suppose someone developed a new sensor type, that allowed for a 39MP APS-C sized sensor, would you be able to tell the difference, in the final print, between that and a 39MP Hassy?
If the full sensor is 12 Mpixel and the crop is 9.6 mpixel, then the crop factor is 1.1. That, as they say, does not compute.
Crop factor is length ratio, or width ratio. Mpixel ratio is equal to the surface ratio. The latter two are cropfactor squared: Full frame is (1.6)² times the area of 1.6x crop.
So, an APS-H (1.254x) crop from a 12 Mpixel image is 12 / (1.254)² = 12 / 1.57 = 7.6 Mpixel.
Edited by Tentacle on Feb 18, 2007 at 02:08 AM GMT (Reason: typo)
Oh stop that
I just took the reciprocal of 1.25. A quick idea that was apparently wrong.
Further proof I wouldn't bother to make up the lens list
DaveMart wrote:
That's what I thought - and I said so in the thread on dpreview - but this guy has a better track record on prediction than I do!
Regards,
Every dSLR enthousiast, even the non-Canon shooters, know that 1D = professional bullet-proof brick. I am not saying it will not be done, but can someone explain WHY Canon would possibly abandon such a strong point of instant recognition? A 1D isn't a 1Ds, so why kick the 1D out of that line-up?
