Guy Mancuso wrote:
so if you feel the M8 can't cut it than buy something else but if your going to run a test and make conclusions than the test needs to be accurate, or you are misleading people. Trust me the M8 in that store shot if focused correctly would have been a different story. But you folks makeyour own conclusions. it took me 3 seconds to see that test was off. amazed no one picked up on that
Guy, my M8 as delivered by Leica is a piece of sh*t. Sorry but I don't need a "test" to tell me that a camera that locks up at random, and which paints everything in sight a bright shade of pink is not ready for prime time. Of course, mine can be reset by shaking the battery out, and images can be whitebalanced in Photoshop, magenta areas can be painted black,reflections of highlights can be retouched out, but this is a prototype, sorry to say so.
Mine has gone back to Solms for the banding fix and a check of sensor noise. But I'm ready to run any suggested real-world test of resolution and noise of my M8 against my 1Ds2 , and eat my words if the Leica outresolves the 1Ds2.
The M8 -as far as I can tell by shooting- is the equivalent of the Nikon D200, and when working properly I expect it will deliver decent quality in a nice little portable package. The competition (Canon 5D, 1DsII, Leica DMR) delivers superb quality in a heavier package. Why people insist on comparing a sportscar (M8) to a truck (1DsII or 5D) is beyond me.
My "professional reviewer" colleagues - Sean, Erwin, Michael Uwe all missed the M8 problems which were apparent 2 days after I got the camera from the dealer. I think I will trust my own reviews more than my colleagues in the future.
Last, not least, I have taken some superb pictures with the M8 - aided by the smalI size and weight. I just wish that it were reliable. Leica hasn't paid me to be a tester - maybe they should.
eronald wrote:
Mine has gone back to Solms for the banding fix and a check of sensor noise. But I'm ready to run any suggested real-world test of resolution and noise of my M8 against my 1Ds2 , and eat my words if the Leica outresolves the 1Ds2.
(...)
My "professional reviewer" colleagues - Sean, Erwin, Michael Uwe all missed the M8 problems which were apparent 2 days after I got the camera from the dealer. I think I will trust my own reviews more than my colleagues in the future.
Edmund, it is a very different thing to not notice flaws in an unknown camera, and noticing flaws in a camera heavily criticised for these exact flaws. You tested your M8 at a much later time than the others. Your findings were not posted before we all got our hands on our M8s.
I cannot imagine that the M8 will outresolve the 1Ds2, nor the 5D, but it does much better than most posted tests have indicated, and it has some other image quality advantages. Let's wait until the fixed cameras come back before judging this.
Guy - a couple questions about the viewfinder --- compared to the 1Ds2, does it feel bigger, smaller Lets say you want focus on in righthand corner (I thinking rule of thirds) and you're shooting a fast lens --- how would you pull off focus? I'm thinking of a shot like this ----
One of the reason why I did not like the 5D was because all the AF points are bunched up in the center. At least the 1Ds2 almost has some points in the corner areas. It's far from perfect, but better than the 5D was.
With DMR and M8 I'm afraid of being a slave to center focus again like I was with the Zeiss and Leica lenses on the 1Ds2 and the split screen.
Here is Mike Hatam trying out a H2 with a Kenyon Gyro that Rob Martin had with him. Rob is a Fred Miranda user (Lecter) and asked about the M8. Robin had his own SD card and borrowed the M8 and 24mm ASPH to shoot a few shots. I think he really liked the camera.
Actually, I did have the camera early. My findings including pictures were filed for publication on Open Photography Forum on Nov 8. I reproduce the summary below. The site did not publish my review. What a surprise. OPF will not be getting any more material from me, needless to say.
Oh, and by the way, Leica customer service never responded to my emails asking about repairs, either.
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Leica M8: For those who want a camera, rather than a computer with a lens.
Nutshell summary:
Leica's beautifully engineered all-digital M8 retains the look and feel of earlier mechanical models but spits out high quality digital images. Although manual focus is now something of a boutique taste, pros will love the tough lightweight construction. But this beautiful camera's greatest strength is the existing range of Leica lenses, widely considered the best available.
However being one of the first M8 users has been frustrating, as teething troubles are pestering me. Repeated lockups which require pulling the battery, strange color, banding on night shots with lights in the frame are all minor but very real annoyances. I just hope these bugs will quickly stomped out: Leica design deserves Leica quality control.
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carstenw wrote:
Edmund, it is a very different thing to not notice flaws in an unknown camera, and noticing flaws in a camera heavily criticised for these exact flaws. You tested your M8 at a much later time than the others. Your findings were not posted before we all got our hands on our M8s.
I cannot imagine that the M8 will outresolve the 1Ds2, nor the 5D, but it does much better than most posted tests have indicated, and it has some other image quality advantages. Let's wait until the fixed cameras come back before judging this.
I'm really enjoying this Yosemite shoot. Guy, I can't believe the detail that you got from the CV 15 and M8. My CV 15 just arrived this week and I can't wait to try it out next week in Arizona. (Woody inspired me with the great shots from his trip, too.)
Anyone who looks at the detail in these shots should see what a fine camera the M8 is. All of this comparing 5D to M8 is getting us nowhere. They are both capable. I know this, I have them both in my bag, but I'm rarely reaching for the 5D anymore.
Guy Mancuso wrote:
Jpegs and out of focus test. Complete waste of my time . Edmund get the filter get the fix and sell it or use it. My results are flat out outstanding so have fun with the 5d which i have no desire to own.
Me a 5D ? Guy, are ya dreaming ?
Actually, yes, I think I sell it because my impression comparing my shots with others is that my sensor is defective. I have asked Leica to check but my confidence in them is zero . My opinion is that they are in money-making mode and couldn't care less what sort of sh*t they shovel out. Oh, and by the way, they never answered my very polite emails requesting advice about the banding issues.
You are cynical about Canon, but they have a live service for pros here in Paris - and when I showed them my 1Ds images they replaced the sensor. That's what I call standing behind your product.
And Carsten - I was teh first to post stuff on the Leica forum about my Leica hanging - and some people said I was dreaming, and was the only one with the issue - right, Guy ?
I took the camera back to my dealer - who promptly told me to come back the next day because he didn't want to be bothered with doing the paperwork to send it back on that day. I lost my temper at that point. Everything in connection with this camera seems jinxed.
Pondria wrote:
Despite all the technical innovations that have been put in to extend the legend into the digital age, it apprears that M8 was born premature.
Rob that 24 ASPH looks really good on the M8. I have the 21ZM and am debating my next lens purchase. I'm really leaning toward the 28 Summicron ASPH but it would be great to have the in camera framelines with the 24 vs the 21 having to use the external viewfinder. Any thoughts or experience with the 28 summicron on the M8?
robsteve wrote:
Here is Mike Hatam trying out a H2 with a Kenyon Gyro that Rob Martin had with him. Rob is a Fred Miranda user (Lecter) and asked about the M8. Robin had his own SD card and borrowed the M8 and 24mm ASPH to shoot a few shots. I think he really liked the camera.
Guy Mancuso wrote:
So I guess all the images posted from it are also premature.
The images tell us you are a good photographer. They tell us the camera works well when it does.
They don't tell us how often it locks up. They don't tell us how many other shots, that were not posted, have color casts, aliasing or weird artifacts.
What I feel odd is this; No one here works for Leica as far as I know. Why are we so protective or defensive about the problems that a $5K RF camera should not have ?
KJbruin wrote:
Rob that 24 ASPH looks really good on the M8. I have the 21ZM and am debating my next lens purchase. I'm really leaning toward the 28 Summicron ASPH but it would be great to have the in camera framelines with the 24 vs the 21 having to use the external viewfinder. Any thoughts or experience with the 28 summicron on the M8?
I only used the 28mm a couple of times. I would say the 28mm frame lines are easier to see than the 24mm lines. Either lens are stellar performers.
Pondria wrote:
The images tell us you are a good photographer. They tell us the camera works well when it does.
They don't tell us how often it locks up. They don't tell us how many other shots, that were not posted, have color casts, aliasing or weird artifacts.
What I feel odd is this; No one here works for Leica as far as I know. Why are we so protective or defensive about the problems that a $5K RF camera should not have ?
Pondria:
The M8 doesn't seem to lock up. We are using two original production M8 and haven't had any lockups. I think the reported lockups were related to unsupported SD cards.
In regards to color casts and artifacts, we are shooting RAW, so these are corrected at conversion by the conversion software.
I could post some out of focus or poorly composed shots I have if it will help you get out of this conspiracy theory mood
Pondria wrote:
The images tell us you are a good photographer. They tell us the camera works well when it does.
They don't tell us how often it locks up. They don't tell us how many other shots, that were not posted, have color casts, aliasing or weird artifacts.
What I feel odd is this; No one here works for Leica as far as I know. Why are we so protective or defensive about the problems that a $5K RF camera should not have ?
Guy. Thanks for posting so many photos. Also a different thread, of a couple and another of young boy 28F2 @F2.
Pondria: Occasionally there are problems with new cars, but the manufacturer fixes whatever everything wrong...About the IR? I'd probably prefer to have a filter on an expensive lens.
Chuckpjones, in another thread showed a portion of a 27x40 inch photo ( @ 360dpi ? ) Thats impressive...
eronald wrote:
You are cynical about Canon, but they have a live service for pros here in Paris - and when I showed them my 1Ds images they replaced the sensor. That's what I call standing behind your product.
Okay, but there are horror stories on both sides of the fence. Let's not get into story-by-story blows.
And Carsten - I was teh first to post stuff on the Leica forum about my Leica hanging - and some people said I was dreaming, and was the only one with the issue - right, Guy ?
I recall that now. We all recommended that you exchange or repair your camera, because clearly there was something not right with it. Did you?
Guy - your pictures are good and demonstrate your skills as a photographer and thanks for posting them but if you get all emotional about less than perfect tests by others are you really expecting people to be convinced by small tiny downsized web jpegs? - are you really saying you could not have taken these with a 5D/1Ds2/D2X etc?
The one and only camera I know which does this perfectly are the Nikon d2-series. The AF-point placing of the d2h/d2x is something I really like from the first moment.
John Black wrote:
Guy - a couple questions about the viewfinder --- compared to the 1Ds2, does it feel bigger, smaller Lets say you want focus on in righthand corner (I thinking rule of thirds) and you're shooting a fast lens --- how would you pull off focus? I'm thinking of a shot like this ----
One of the reason why I did not like the 5D was because all the AF points are bunched up in the center. At least the 1Ds2 almost has some points in the corner areas. It's far from perfect, but better than the 5D was.
With DMR and M8 I'm afraid of being a slave to center focus again like I was with the Zeiss and Leica lenses on the 1Ds2 and the split screen....Show more →
Pondria wrote:
Despite all the technical innovations that have been put in to extend the legend into the digital age, it apprears that M8 was born premature.
today nearly every tachnical product is born premature.
Guy Mancuso wrote:
So I guess all the images posted from it are also premature.
Guy,
I noticed you were posting that you needed a second M8 because the first had locked up and couldn't be restarted.
Am I imagining this or is it true ?
This thing is a preemie - a fragile little being that will need nursing through its tender years.
Lets say you want focus on in righthand corner (I thinking rule of thirds) and you're shooting a fast lens --- how would you pull off focus? I'm thinking of a shot like this ----
