Pondria, I sent mine back for a focus adjustment. Did anyone else? Guy has one, but he is busy over in the LCU forum at the moment. Joshua, don't you have one? RobSteve, when does yours arrive?
brainiac, Sean Reid's review is quite thorough wrt. ISO, and to a lesser extent wrt. detail, so since so many of us are subscribers, that might explain why hardly anyone is taking up the gauntlet. I still plan to, but my window to do so is shrinking with every day that the M8 is not back. I do have to sell the 5D before christmas so I can get a decent price for it, relatively soon. If you are really impatient to see results, you can also scrounge through the LCU forum (http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-forum/), where there are more.
Having seen how loudly people have complained about the M8's faults, I cannot imagine that there is any conspiracy of silence to hide bad results. Far more likely is either that few people have one, or even that people are so enjoying their M8 that they have no time for this forum at the moment.
I am looking at mine right now as it sits on my desk , while the battery is charging for the very first time..... I will go out there and take some shots after the battery is fully charged......
"On the A3 prints, the differences are almost negligible!"
To be honest, Puts is even more evasive, pseudo-scientific, and obscurantist than ever. Of course it's possible to make a 50 megapixel file look the same as a 15 megapixel file. You just print on a device and at a size capable of rendering 15 megapixels of real resolution. He repeatedly argues against actually comparing the two cameras' maximum resolution and states that such a comparison is misleading. That's false. The stupid chart thing shows a clear advantage to the Canon, but Puts brushes it under the carpet. It is not clear whether Puts up-rezzed the M8 image so that this comparison was fair. I would like to see a real resolution test with a Zeiss or Leica lens instead of a Canon one.
Is anyone else here beginning to feel like we are being systematically misled? Has mass hysteria evolved into mass delusion? It feels like an episode of V.
There is a big stink about all this. I am sorry to say, my friends, that the results look poor to me and I have had enough evasion. If I got that hallowe'en trash bag result from my 5D I would be very disappointed. I just ordered a 44 inch epson printer to print my 12.8 megapixel files at a size they deserve. There is no more money in the kitty now for romantic toys. I hope you all enjoy your M8's, and that they serve you well. I will not be joining you because frankly there has been too much evasion, especially from reviewers.
why should this be strange? He criticised it for the issues he found and questioned if the missing low pass filter was the best way to go and if the concept of the RF camera without all the fancy features would be welcomed by the public
Now, people here bashed his review without taking notice of the content and prefered to link to reviewers which did not notice any flaws.
Puts saw a draw between the 5D (with a Zoom lens) and the M8 in this first part of his review and obviously for some people that was not enough.
I took mine out tonight and it banded like crazy. I love street photography in the morning, dusk and at night because of the interesting lighting, how it spotlights things, how it hides things, etc. Almost every shot I took has banding in it because of the crazy gas discharge lights. My other cameras don't do that. Even the e-300 i had with the lowly 4/3 Kodak sensor didn't do that. So as far as saying these problems don't affect people 95% of the time, that is a load of bull. I will give the lying leica their two weeks and if an effective solution is not announced its going back to the store. And external filters for every lens is not a solution IMHO.
Love or hate the M, but why so rude to Guy? From the beginning he has been upfront about his issues with the camera, and how he plans to stick with it regardless. If it works for him that's all that matters. The fact that he shares his experience on this forum is a bonus to us all.
AGeoJO wrote: - Does the thread title have to reflect the content of the posts or vice versa ?
robert
I have one and just finished a shoot at Horseshoe Bend in Page Arizona. No one is going to take this wonderful instrument from my hands. I accept it is not "perfect" but what it does well works for 90+ percent of my work and I am confident that Leica will get at least up to 95% or more. I challenge any other manufacturer of digital cameras to show more success when all the issues with image quality are evaluated.
To each his own but i am not sending mine back...........period
I feel the same way. It is really a fine instrument. With time, the issues will be fixed.For other cameras in the C/N camp, so, they are OK, maybe good, but they wont get better.
DR will be lower and the glass, well, when they can fit Zeiss or Leica I guess even a 5D can look pretty darned good
woodyspedden wrote:
I have one and just finished a shoot at Horseshoe Bend in Page Arizona. No one is going to take this wonderful instrument from my hands....I challenge any other manufacturer of digital cameras to show more success when all the issues with image quality are evaluated.
Woody
Woody, with all due respect, how about a post to show us the results you are geting? I hear plenty of users saying they are getting great results but very few picture posts to show us. In fact, I can count the 100% crops I've seen on one hand, and most of those were handheld "test shots". Horseshoe Bend would be an ideal setting to show excellent detail and color.
I have one and just finished a shoot at Horseshoe Bend in Page Arizona. No one is going to take this wonderful instrument from my hands. I accept it is not "perfect" but what it does well works for 90+ percent of my work and I am confident that Leica will get at least up to 95% or more. I challenge any other manufacturer of digital cameras to show more success when all the issues with image quality are evaluated.
To each his own but i am not sending mine back...........period
Woody
If anybody feels comfortable to shoot with a RF to produce his style of photography there is no reason to believe that he should not get such a camera or drop it again because there are a couple of pixels missing in his photograph. This technical discussion is way overrated and people who actually take photographs with their camera should just try to discover something in front of the lens. People who made the Leica famous like Bresson or Frank had to deal with a camera that produced less sharp pictures and they did not care about making history nethertheless.
I mean until now I had to service every second Canon lens I own but I can and will not drop them as for some shots I need aperture control. Thats why I think people should go on with Leica as long as they are sure the RF is the good thing for themself and just wait until Leica comes up with the patch for the magenta thing
espressogeek wrote:
So as far as saying these problems don't affect people 95% of the time, that is a load of bull.
Now how on earth would you know that? Because *you* got bad results consistently *one* evening? I don't recall anyone saying that every M8 owner is exempt an even 95% of the time, not only on average, but also on every shoot.
Anyway, you make your decisions and do as you see fit.
bathman wrote:
why should this be strange? He criticised it for the issues he found and questioned if the missing low pass filter was the best way to go and if the concept of the RF camera without all the fancy features would be welcomed by the public
Andi, I normally really respect your opinion, and I love your pictures, but on this one issue you are stubbornly refusing to get the point. The point is that early negative publicity can kill a product and even a company. You could argue that this product needed killing, but that is a judgement call, and really, every manufacturer deserves a chance to get products out the door without a knife in the back.
To be honest, ultimately I don't care if the M8 is the worst camera in the world, and I don't care if the 5D beats it to smithereens. All I want to see is for everyone to let it ship before they slash it to pieces.
Now that it has shipped, it is no holds barred. Anyone can do a bad review of it, if they can justify it. To be sure, the issues are acceptable for many, but not for all. Wedding photographers, night shooters, fashion photographers, and so on will want to take a long, careful look before committing to this camera, at least until the first round of Leica fixes are in place. Anyone who can live with the flaws will find that the M8 is a wonderful camera with exceptional image quality.
I don't understand what your beef is, to be honest. On this issue you feel a lot less balanced than usual. Why? Do you dislike Leica in general?
Edited by carstenw on Nov 14, 2006 at 09:10 AM GMT (Reason: typo)
bathman wrote:
If anybody feels comfortable to shoot with a RF to produce his style of photography there is no reason to believe that he should not get such a camera or drop it again because there are a couple of pixels missing in his photograph. This technical discussion is way overrated and people who actually take photographs with their camera should just try to discover something in front of the lens.
Very well said and IMO thats the point: The M8 has some problems. But there are workarounds. In the end now we have a digital rangefinder, which has a very nice user interface and delievers Image quality on par with very good digital SLR. For me it doesnt matter if it is a little tiny bit better IQ or not, I would assume that each camera, DMR,5d, M8, . . . would deliever pretty good IQ when you use a good lens.
Now, since the problems of the M8 are known and communicated, why not concentrate on the work arounds and show some images (I can´t since I am still waiting for my M8).
Why not go back to an inspriing level of communication with supplying help and information to eachother instead of bashing cameras?
Carsten, you seem to confound review and publicity. I agree with you that comparing the Leica to other cameras in a review is not a must, though I believe that's what the user wants to hear in a review. Leica is certainly a well regarded brand, and I do not want to see them go over the Styx, please do not subordinate this.
When people said here that the M8 was actually 16bit camera they missinterpreted the Leica data, which says that it has 16bit DNG files, but a 8bit sensor. What I want to say by this example is that the Internet creates a lot of myths by misunderstanding and once people are convinced about that sort of information anybody who can read correctly is a troll. Leica did not even have to do with this as they provided correct information.
There was somebody who printed m8 pictures up to 30x40in and believe him instantly that he had results he was able to impress his clients, so that people must always have the best of the top when they buy something new and do not see the fact that they probably never come to the limit of a fine camera without forcing it, is another internet mechanism.
Phew - hysteria still the norm when most of the contributors don't even own an M8 yet let alone have tested it. Add Putts to the mix and people's neck straps are sure to get in a twist. Still I'm a little curious why Leica would let a product on the market with such a problem as the IR issue. The images I've seen from the M8 are fantastic for a 10mp sensor - a combination of a number of factors not least the superb M lens quality. I would venture to suggest that resolution and image detail performance with DSLR's in this bracket are lens related first and foremost and the M8 has a major advantage here. What is perhaps becoming clear is that non retro focus wide lenses are not well suited to present generation sensor technology - the low angle of incidence needs both physical compromises - less than full frame sensor, offset microlenses and thin ( less than totaly effective) IR filtering and software adjustment to deal with colour shifts and light fall off.
, while the battery is charging for the very first time..... I will go out there and take some shots after the battery is fully charged...... 