If all goes according to plan, I'll get the M8 this Saturday a.m. I have a model test shoot that afternoon, so I hope to use the M8 to shoot a few frames during that. And you'd all better hope I DO get the M8 in time for this model shoot; otherwise, all you'll be getting from me this weekend are pictures of my wife, daughter, and cats!
When mine comes in, I'm going to post a few kid and dog shots against blurry backgrounds just to send a few happy posters like the prickly cactus, green frog and my, my, my shirozina over the edge.
kidigital wrote:
When mine comes in, I'm going to post a few kid and dog shots against blurry backgrounds just to send a few happy posters like the prickly cactus, green frog and my, my, my shirozina over the edge.
Kurt
Kurt,
If you haven't already heard, yours is on the way. Should be in late this week or early next. Chrome or black for you
httivals wrote:
Mr. Know could very well be Thomas Knoll. I'd bet Michael is right. He seems to have direct access to more than one Mr. Know.
Mr. Know is in fact Thomas Knoll as posted by MR on another forum.
Seems like the speculation is over now. M8 files are in fact 8 bit, The only question is how that affects the quality and what's the point of shooting RAW if it doesn't retain any extra bits over jpg
speculation for me is not over, I still believe there is some compression going on in the M8 which gives us lossless dng files.
MikeZ wrote:
Mr. Know is in fact Thomas Knoll as posted by MR on another forum.
Seems like the speculation is over now. M8 files are in fact 8 bit, The only question is how that affects the quality and what's the point of shooting RAW if it doesn't retain any extra bits over jpg
RHoehne wrote:
speculation for me is not over, I still believe there is some compression going on in the M8 which gives us lossless dng files.
I don't understand what you're saying.
Of course that there is a loseless compression going. It's a lossless 8 bit jpg compression. Nobody is saying that they are using a lossy jpg compression for their dng.
what I am saying is that the DMR gives me 16 bit files (so I am told) and they are huge, then I use the dng utility by Adobe and I have the same bit depth information but half the file size. Is Leica doing the compression of their dng files in camera rather than what I do for the DMR which is compresss them on the PC.
The files still have the 16 bit colour depth but files are 10.2MB per image
DNG files from the Leica M8, which are the only raw files form the camera, use an 8-bit perceptual coding from a 14-bit linear space. DNG lossless compression is not used. (Which means the files get significantly smaller when rerun through the DNG Converter.)
Perceptual coding is a non-linear data representation. E.g. a gamma curve. (There are other types and I have not had time to go look at the precise table or tables the M8 uses.) Linear representations have too few gradations in the darkest levels of the image and far too many in the brightest ones, relative to what one can distinguish in any final viewing situation. Thus perceptual coding makes much better use of data space.
Desite this use of what is effectively a lossy compression method, effects on image quality will be very subtle if noticeable at all. (Especially given other characteristics in this particular case.) A case can still be made for increased dynamic range due to the initial 14-bit capture.
If the issue iwas solely file size, implementing DNG lossless compression would have been a preferable solution, but perhaps there wasn't enough compute power to do so.
I can't imagine that most people need the original 14 or 16 bits of information for the picture as-is. The issue for me is editing. If I blow an exposure, or need to expose wrong and correct later for some other reason, every missing bit of information detracts from the potential quality of the result. I am very disappointed that the full 16 bits are not available as they are (meant to be) with the DMR.
perculiar and i cannot argue because I do not know what the M8 does with files. Can someone explain where the 16 bit colour depth spec comes from that I see in LFI.
Or how can anyone claim 16 bit colour depth when it is a 14 bit capture which then has a curve put on it and saved as 8 bit.
Where is the RAW in that file if it has had curves applied?
RHoehne wrote:
perculiar and i cannot argue because I do not know what the M8 does with files. Can someone explain where the 16 bit colour depth spec comes from that I see in LFI.
Or how can anyone claim 16 bit colour depth when it is a 14 bit capture which then has a curve put on it and saved as 8 bit.
Where is the RAW in that file if it has had curves applied?
The 16 bit spec comes from Leica's Technical Data sheet. They call it 16 bit color resolution.
8 bit non linear for Dr of 14-16 bits is actually a ggod compromise. compression takes compute power
power take, time and creates heat both bad
so for a MINOR give up in SOme lose in an area you really cant see (gradations in bright light) you get-
Even if Sean is a bit shell-shocked from the bad feeling about his site on this forum, I'm not averse to telling you he's published Part 3 of his M8 Review which includes some interesting comparisons, looks at the 6 bit coding, talks about flash and more.
We collectively should be so pleased at Leica's achievement, back where they belong in to the top drawer of photography.
Yeah, I fear that all Sean Reids posts have just been deleted. If that's the case, what a waste of all his great contributions and valuable knowledge. I had made a 12 pages Word document with pagenumbers to the most important informations in that thread, and now all the pagenumbers are wrong and useless.
Since someone stopped Sean Reids great contributions by complaining to Fred, I have realized that Leicas success and all our excitement and enthusiasm makes some fans of other brands frustrated, envious and jealous. Really smells, it is just so destructive.
Steen Bondo wrote:
Yeah, I fear that all Sean Reids posts have just been deleted. If that's the case, what a waste of all his great contributions and valuable knowledge. I had made a 12 pages Word document with pagenumbers to the most important informations in that thread, and now all the pagenumbers are wrong and useless.
Since someone stopped Sean Reids great contributions by complaining to Fred, I have realized that Leicas success and all our excitement and enthusiasm makes some fans of other brands frustrated, envious and jealous. Really smells, it is just so destructive.
For some reason, saying you are getting or use a Leica brings out some very bad vibes in some people. They seems to equate it to elitism rather than just a fine tool.
As an wood worker once told me, "It's better to have one fine hand plane than 4 so-so ones."
