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Archive 2006 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body

  
 
kenshin
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p.2 #1 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


Are you talking about my pics? If so, no I didn't shoot them as JPEG. I had shot at RAW. Then I used Canon's RAW Image Task app to apply the "Standard" Picture Style to them before saving them as JPEG (highest image quality). I think doing that gives you pretty much the same quality image as if you had shot JPEG directly from the camera itself with the picture style set to the same "Standard" setting. Or no? I have no idea. For the resized pics I just used Photoshop CS2 to resize and then saved them again with image quality setting at 10 out of 12.

ward1066 wrote:
are these pics straight out of the camera jpegs?




Sep 11, 2006 at 05:33 PM
clocksley
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p.2 #2 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


Seems like a fairly rich coloured camera - much as how I found the 350D

I suppose picture quality is one thing, but what is it like in terms of handling speed, readiness for the next shot? ...and something I always found a problem with the 350D was the changing settings whilst shooting as it has no wheel on the back.
It looks ideal for one-off shots and the ISO1600 shots look remarkably clean.



Sep 11, 2006 at 05:44 PM
ward1066
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p.2 #3 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


kenshin wrote:
Are you talking about my pics? If so, no I didn't shoot them as JPEG. I had shot at RAW. Then I used Canon's RAW Image Task app to apply the "Standard" Picture Style to them before saving them as JPEG (highest image quality). I think doing that gives you pretty much the same quality image as if you had shot JPEG directly from the camera itself with the picture style set to the same "Standard" setting. Or no? I have no idea. For the resized pics I just used Photoshop CS2 to resize and then saved them again with
...Show more

Thanks, I was just wondering if sharpening was applied. If you used the standard style, minimal sharpening is used. I believe it is 3. Looks like the noise is well controlled.



Sep 11, 2006 at 06:48 PM
RobinQW
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p.2 #4 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


OH Look! It's pictures of bookshelves!

http://www.pbase.com/robinwalker/xtvsxti

Full resolution ISO 1600, F/4, 1/60 shots with EFS 60mm lens on the 350D and the 400D. 1/60 second exposure seemed a little darker on the 400D, so I did another at 1/50 second.

Did I possibly lose 1/3 stop with this sensor? Someone else mentioned photos were coming out a little dark. I am beginning to think so. Hmmmm.



Sep 11, 2006 at 07:10 PM
paulamone
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p.2 #5 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


Hi RobinQW,

I don't know it is just me. I seem to see the texture of the boxes much better
in the 400D photo. If what I am seeing is the real texture of the boxes, then
I would say the 400D has a clear edge from a resolution stand point.

The review of the 5D on DP Review indicates that the actual ISO setting on
the 5D is always more sensitive than the setting on the camera. (In other
words, the picture is always brighter than what a calibrated light meter will
read.) I don't know if that is true for the 350D. If it is, then Canon may have
corrected their ISO setting in their new camera.



Sep 11, 2006 at 07:39 PM
MPerdomo
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p.2 #6 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


From reports coming in, the new DRebel is pretty similar in noise to the D80:

At 1600, the Rebel:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/XTI/FULLRES/XTIhSLI01600.HTM

At 1600, the D80:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D80/FULLRES/D80hSLI1600.HTM

The noise playing field looks like it might be leveled this generation



Sep 11, 2006 at 07:47 PM
RobinQW
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p.2 #7 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


paulamone wrote:
Hi RobinQW,

I don't know it is just me. I seem to see the texture of the boxes much better
in the 400D photo. If what I am seeing is the real texture of the boxes, then
I would say the 400D has a clear edge from a resolution stand point.


I think you are right. Going from 8 to 10 MP is not a major difference. But, if you have the right glass/focus and you want to blow up or crop a photo, the 400D has the edge.

paulamone wrote:
The review of the 5D on DP Review indicates that the actual ISO setting on
the 5D is always more sensitive than the setting on the camera. (In other
words, the picture is always brighter than what a calibrated light meter will
read.) I don't know if that is true for the 350D. If it is, then Canon may have
corrected their ISO setting in their new camera.


That still leaves me with a slower shutter speed with the 400D when the ISO and aperture is the same as the 350D.



Sep 11, 2006 at 08:11 PM
Sam Bennett
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p.2 #8 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


MPerdomo wrote:
From reports coming in, the new DRebel is pretty similar in noise to the D80:

At 1600, the Rebel:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/XTI/FULLRES/XTIhSLI01600.HTM

At 1600, the D80:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D80/FULLRES/D80hSLI1600.HTM

The noise playing field looks like it might be leveled this generation


You gotta be kidding me. The D80 shot is NR'd to death - it looks like crap. As usual, the Canon has more noticeable Chrominance Noise and a fine noise pattern that will clean up in a competent NR tool without problems.



Sep 11, 2006 at 09:09 PM
Jim Victory
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p.2 #9 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


AGeoJO wrote:
Well, I clicked on this one, too . My observation though, regardless of what it is, Canon is pretty fast in making this camera available. Something like 2-3 weeks after the announcement? I am impressed....


And before Photokina officially opens.

Jim



Sep 11, 2006 at 10:42 PM
ninecount
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p.2 #10 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


are these pics straight out of the camera jpegs?

If you are asking about mine as well....

No, mine were taken as Raw images, then converted with DPP v2.2 (new version that came with the XTi, not yet available as a download)

-John



Sep 11, 2006 at 10:51 PM
Matt Graves
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p.2 #11 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


RobinQW wrote:
OH Look! It's pictures of bookshelves!

http://www.pbase.com/robinwalker/xtvsxti

Full resolution ISO 1600, F/4, 1/60 shots with EFS 60mm lens on the 350D and the 400D. 1/60 second exposure seemed a little darker on the 400D, so I did another at 1/50 second.

Did I possibly lose 1/3 stop with this sensor? Someone else mentioned photos were coming out a little dark. I am beginning to think so. Hmmmm.



the 400 looks sharper...



Sep 12, 2006 at 03:44 AM
normski
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p.2 #12 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


This hands-on test of the 400d (link below) shows it to have a shade more noise than the 350d at 800 iso and 1600 iso.

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon400D/



Sep 12, 2006 at 09:54 AM
DaveEP
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p.2 #13 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


An interesting bug.....?

I just inserted a CF card in to the 400D that I had been using on the 20D before hand. For some reason the 400D started saving shots 'part way through' the numbering sequence that the 20D had been using. I was using the 400D in RAW+L mode, and where no JPEG existed on the card for that file number, it saved the JPEG and OVERWROTE the CR2 from the 20D that had the same file number. Where I had used the 20D in RAW+L mode (so both RAW and JPEG were on the card) the 400D skipped those numbers and did not over write either file.

The only reason I noticed this is because Bridge had the thumbnails for the 20D raw files cached, and only brought up the new thumbnails for the 400D JPEGs. Clicking on the 20D thumbnail brought up the error about not knowing about this (400D) file type. After refreshing the directory, the 20D files were no longer there, and had been replaced by the 400D files.

It's not something I would normally do, but just something to be aware of ......



Sep 12, 2006 at 11:10 AM
normski
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p.2 #14 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


crikey dave that's getting deep! but interesting nonetheless.


Sep 12, 2006 at 05:08 PM
dgeesaman
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p.2 #15 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


I'm really interested to hear how the 400d does w.r.t. sports photography.

It would seem that the high iso noise is reasonably low, but is the AI Servo as good as a 20D or 30D? Does it consistently focus well with f/2.8 equipment? (And what does the "f/2.8 aperture center focus point" actually mean?)

Dave



Sep 12, 2006 at 05:27 PM
Sam Bennett
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p.2 #16 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


dgeesaman wrote:
(And what does the "f/2.8 aperture center focus point" actually mean?)


It most likely means it use a cross-type sensor with lenses f/2.8 and faster. So, faster focusing, more accurate and better in low light conditions.



Sep 12, 2006 at 05:28 PM
susslaps
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p.2 #17 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


DaveEP:
Thank you for your exhaustive analysis. I notice in your gear list at bottom you have a 20D. I have a 20D also and I wonder if you can tell me how the overall quality of the 400XT compares to the 20D. I realize you haven't had it long obviously, but does your gut analysis say the the 20D is worth ~$300> than the XT?
Thanks, Ben



Sep 12, 2006 at 06:09 PM
DaveEP
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p.2 #18 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


susslaps wrote:
DaveEP:
Thank you for your exhaustive analysis. I notice in your gear list at bottom you have a 20D. I have a 20D also and I wonder if you can tell me how the overall quality of the 400XT compares to the 20D. I realize you haven't had it long obviously, but does your gut analysis say the the 20D is worth ~$300> than the XT?
Thanks, Ben


Well, what ever I write here is going to be totally subjective, and "someone' would always disagree, so I don't think I want to get it on to "400D is better than 20D" or visa versa.

Clearly for me, the 400D had enough advantages that I have chosen to buy it, and will likely sell my 20D (because I no longer use it for the only purpose I bought it). That does not mean it is better or worse, just that "for me" it is more suited to the task.

I don't think it would help to go through each feature one at a time, comparing and deciding which is best. The 20D is a VERY good camera, always was, always will be, but in the end, the size/weight difference of the 20D from a 1 series was not enough for me. The small LCD hampered me in some instances (as it continues to do on the 1 series), the shutter sound was a bit loud (though rarely a problem), and I always had the concerns about changing lenses in the open air (e.g. when there was a slight breeze etc).

I simply don't need the 5 fps of the 20D. When I want "fast" I have a 1D2, so 3 fps is plenty on what is for me only a travel / walk about camera.

Could I have gone on with the 20D? Absolutely. Does the 400D wipe the floor with it? Not a chance. Does the 20D wipe the floor with the 400D? In my opinion, no.

The extra MP don't really mean that much (an extra 10.9% or 3888 vs 3504 on the long side), but the extra LCD size, the dust busting and the ability to go smaller and lighter were big things to me. Everything else is 'comparable'. The only places where the 20D may win are the user interface and shooting at high ISO. But for me, when I am looking at a printed photograph taken at high ISO, I am looking at the 'picture' and not the 'noise'. I just don't walk up close enough to see the noise. As for ISO 3200, I don't use it that much on a "walk about" camera, and so am unlikely to miss it. If I need it, I will adjust the exposure comensation and push it in the raw converter. If I know ahead of time that I am going to need it for shots that are 'not for personal use' I would take the 1D2 instead (which in my experience is better than the 20D anyway).

I have said all along (on many posts) that the anti dust feature is the one thing that would make me consider changing any one of my bodies. So, here it is, and that's exactly what I have done. When Canon put it on a 1DsX in the future, that's the time I will probably change the 1 series bodies, and not until.

So is the 20D worth $300 more than the 400D? Sorry guys, that's for each individual to decide based on what they want it for, and as much as anything else, the physical size of the thing. If you want the top LCD, 5 fps, better ergonimics (size), rear control wheel, and (IMO) better user interface, then the 20D may well be worth the extras money. However, I would say that on the technology side, the edges are really starting to blur a little

What I would add is that the advances made in the 5D, 30D and now the 400D bode well for future Canon bodies.



Sep 13, 2006 at 04:23 AM
Sam Bennett
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p.2 #19 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


So, have you checked your 400D for dust yet?


Sep 13, 2006 at 08:48 AM
DaveEP
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p.2 #20 · •Hands-On• EOS 400D/XTi Body


Sam Bennett wrote:
So, have you checked your 400D for dust yet?


Yes, 1 tiny spot visible at f22.



Sep 13, 2006 at 09:00 AM
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