I was discussing zeiss and leica at the dinner table with my dad and i showed him my CZ 50mm f/1.4 which is made in japan. He was astonished to see that it was made in japan because he thought the point of buying german glass was that it was produced in germany to a higher accuracy than glass in japan is like canon, etc... (not meant racially). I wasnt quite sure what to add, other than that CZ glass is generally better or on par with canon glass. So you guys tell me, what is the truth? Did CZ put more money into quality? Is it the R&D of the lens which is the determining factor as to if a lens is good or not and not weather it is polished correctly?
The designs have been Zeiss. When the Contax RTS system was developed, Zeiss needed a partner. Zeiss developed the first 35mm SLR system, the Contarex, but it was the Japanese manufacturers like Nikon who made 35mm SLRs really take off. The Contax RTS was a collaboration of Zeiss for the optics, Porsche for the industrial design, and Yashica for the camera body electronics. (The original Contax rangefinder line was already highly popular in with Japan photographers.) Since the RTS's inception, some lenses began as Japan manufactured models by Yashica, with most being made in West Germany. As the line devolped and matured, many lens lines were moved to Japan, but some always remained as German built. But they were all Zeiss optical designs. There were some Japan intoduced features such as the rounder aperture blades, and the coating had some advances due to Japanese developments aslo.
Personally, I have owned both German and Japan made Contax lenses and they have all been to Zeiss for zervice. I have found that my German made lenses always tested out fine, where-as my Japan made models always needed some sort of adjustment, even though most of them were newer. It was no secret that Zeiss and Yashica (and its successor Kyocera) frequently sparred over production issues, Zeiss preferring the time honored Swiss watchmakers technique, while the Japanese preferred the crank it out mass production approach.
If you compared a German made model against the same lens as a Japan made model (if there was one), you would be hard pressed to tell the difference however. It is usually the collecters who have a fondness and will pay more for the German made models.
Canon does make many fine lenses though. They have the best telephoto line-up out there, and their now retired 200/1.8 was parhaps the highest resolving lens ever built by anyone. Also, their 35L is probably the finest 35mm focal length SLR lens currently available. What I find is Zeiss's Contax CY Distagon line provides me with better wide-angles, sharp corner to corner with better micro contrast all around. Zeiss lenses are also relatively free from annoying CA, something all my Canon lenses suffer terribly from.
Currently, Zeiss has partnered with Cosina of Japan to make the Zeiss Ikon ZM rangefinder lenses, and the ZF/ZS manual focus 35mm SLR lenses. But as in the case with the Contax line, some models are still German assembled only. There are also many reports of problems with the Cosina assembled lenses. It seems Canon may be suffering from QC issues as well based on all the reports on the other FM forums about bad samples. The demand for cameras and lenses is so high right now, that rather than raise prices or slow dowm, the current mantra from Japan is to crank 'em out faster and hope no one notices the duds that slip through.
Now Leica is a whole 'nother animal. They follow a different design principle. Zeiss and others use convention design practices with the lens performing its best at 2 stops in from wide open. Leica will offer edge to edge sharpness and high resolving power from wide open all the way througout the aperture range until you hit the diffraction point. Leica also uses tighter manufacturing tolerances, and hence take longer to assemble and cost more as a result. Both Zeiss and Leica lenses are made from glass from the highly acclaimed Schott Glassworks of Germany.
Edited by jjlphoto on Aug 27, 2006 at 03:56 PM GMT
Thanks for the great explanation, that clarifies a couple of things. When you say that both zeiss and leica lenses are made from the glass made at Schott Glassworks in germany? does that mean that the glass is made in germany, and then sent to japan (in the case of zeiss) to be put together?
All I know about ZM is my Biogon 21 is absolutely excellent.
However, just because two companies buy glass from the same source doesn't mean they buy the same. The catalogs are huge, containing everything from highly inexpensive to super exotic special-order. Choosing inexpensive formulations is an obvious way to keep cost down, as are designs that are tolerant of variations in grinding/molding of elements, coating practices, handling, and other causes of surface imperfections in addition to assembly tolerances. But it also limits the freedom of the design to begin with. A lens designer that can pick almost anything from a glass catalog, use aspherics wherever they desire, have hot coating of elements (to reduce pitting), where a highly skilled assembly line puts it together and manually calibrates each element, and where price is set pretty high -- obviously has a huge advantage from the start.
I should also add that Japanese lens designs are typically more cost constrained than German ones, and that while Japanese lens designers are just as skilled they're not used to working with so many degrees of freedom. The Germans by contrast aren't used to working on a very strict cost limit. These constraints breed very different engineering cultures, and it's not easy to transplant one to the other. They both excel within their working bounds, are equally well educated and trained etc. Just different goals and mindsets.
My understanding is that the glass of any particular model, whether made in Japan or Germany is the same - all the way to the MC's. I don't know about all the rest of the internals, but I'd be surprised if the materials and specs are not the same for all the components that make up the lens. The main advantage some feel is better, when made in Germany, is the assembly process which requires adherence to very strict tolerance specifications.
Everybody's WA favorite for FF DSLR, the Zeiss 21/2.8, is made in Japan only, but doesn't have any manufacturing issues I've heard of.
Every CZ lens I was able to compare a Japan copy with a Germany one, the difference in color reproduction is very easy to tell. The Germany ones are always warmer. However, it may just because of the Germany lenses were made earlier, and the glass and coatings has been constantly changing, judging from the obvious difference of the color reflection of the the coating, etc. The CZ 18 MM version made in Japan has a more extrusive rear element than the Germany AE version is another example.
