p.3 #1 · Legal question - selling prints from event
A working professional is kind enough to let you use a $6,000.00 lens and then you turn around and want to give away free photos...which could directly or indirectly undercut this guy's business.
I think I'd be doing everything possible to get this situation remedied with all parties....before it's too late!
Lee Woolery
Speedshot Action Photography
www.speedshotphoto.com
p.3 #2 · Legal question - selling prints from event
I'm not sure where some of you got the impression that I wanted to be the official photographer for this event, or any event in the future. I thought I explained that in the first post, I don't take photos with the intent of making money off them, I take them because I like it, and I want "the people" having access to as many awesome photos as possible. I don't like the idea that people can't get a great photo of themselves just because the media director says so. Any money I get just lessens the pain of being deeply, deeply in the red as a result of taking said photos.
p.3 #4 · Legal question - selling prints from event
ElysiumSA wrote:
I'm not sure where some of you got the impression that I wanted to be the official photographer for this event, or any event in the future.
Any money I get just lessens the pain of being deeply, deeply in the red as a result of taking said photos.
The "any money is good" comments are the reason why it seems you would like to take photos and get paid for it... hence, an official photographer (as if there is an official photographer other than you, you will NOT be able to make money in most cases).
ElysiumSA wrote:
I don't take photos with the intent of making money off them, I take them because I like it, and I want "the people" having access to as many awesome photos as possible.
If you were just there to take photos for fun, leave it at that. You either want money, or you don't... and either side of the fence is fine, but there is no middle ground.
p.3 #6 · Legal question - selling prints from event
Most of them are with my 300 2.8. The 400 shots are red white and blue haired girl catching (which is actually focused on the canada girl in back, doh) and the one under it.
p.3 #8 · Legal question - selling prints from event
Just because you think a rule set by a media director is unfair does not give you the right to do what you want. Honestly, whether you want to shoot for sales or not, or just to make a buck or two, you have to follow the rules, like them or not. Period. I think it is absolutly ridiculous that the NCAA is so strict with current athlete photos. I get some great basketball shots that would be killer for adwork or that the parents or even the players would love to have on their wall. I could make a killing with some of them by selling autographed copies to card shops. Why don't I? Because it is against NCAA rules and if I want to continue shooting NCAA ball I need to abide by their rules no matter how stupid I think they are.
You do not want to be the event photographer, just want to take photos and share them? fine, set up a flicker account. It does not matter if you sell 100 photos or 1 photo, you are an event photographer, and selling or giving away photos without authorization is just plain wrong. Period. End of story. You do not want to be an event photographer? Then remove the option to buy from your website. If you want to sell some photos to recoup your "losses", then follow the rules. Can't find the rules? Do not assume there are none then. Find out. You are headed down a road that will end up not allowing you to shoot the things that you really want. As Todd put it, there is no middle ground. Either you do or you do not.
p.3 #9 · Legal question - selling prints from event
nice shots! i'm glad i lent you my lens for a while.
i hope you and the media director are able to work something out, because it seems like you'd be able to make some good money if you decided to pursue ultimate photography on more of a professional basis (i.e. shooting entire tourneys and then selling prints afterwards). as a lot of people have said in this thread, it's hard to straddle the line between amateur-who's-willing-to-give-pics-for-free and pro-who's-selling-them-for-profit.
i can say that while shooting the WJUC was the most fun i've had all year, it was the culmination of about an 8-month process of talking to the media director, tourney directors, other ultimate photographers, and volunteers, all of whom had different ideas about what they wanted from the event photography. it ended up being ridiculously complicated and i laid out out a lot of my own money at the outset in order to be the official photog, with no real guarantee that i would earn it back. part of me wished that i had just done what you did, and arrived on the last couple days and shot. it would have made my life a lot less complicated! however, i think there is something to be said for spending a ton of time and energy figuring out how an event like this is run, and how to run a business, while still enjoying the photography part when the day is through.
finally, while i think it's a nice sentiment that you want parents to have quality photos of their kids playing at the tourney, what kind of message does giving them away free send? i'm not saying you have to gouge parents for every last dollar, but every pro has invested thousands of dollars in the equipment necessary to take those high-quality shots, and selling prints is definitely a way to make some of that back. i understand that for this tourney there are contractual issues which prohibit you from selling, but if you do decide to go the pro route, i think you could make some good money (and pay off your equipment!). you shouldn't be reluctant to do that.
p.3 #10 · Legal question - selling prints from event
I agree with Carl (as well as most others) on this issue. An avid photographer for years, I started my own LLC in January with the intent of shooting sporting events and selling online. Well, I got my foot in the door with the local Little League Baseball Board of Directors, and went to work. Although I thought my work was so-so, the parents loved them, and I did fairly well for a rookie photographer.
Well, now it is football season, and my own sons are playing Midget League Football. I shoot their games, but only at home because I have permission there. When asked my team parents to shoot little Johnny because he is in and doesn't play much, I tell them that I'm not the photographer for that team or field. Why is that? Well, on some fields, they have their own photogrpahers that they made a contract with, and I'm not cutting into their work. I'll get my team parents at home. As for the other parents, I tell them that if they want me to shoot their teams, then they need to ask their own board to book me for next year. It is extremely unprofessional to try to compete with another photographer without league permision. And that is exactly what you are doing by giving prints away. And, you are slamming the door in your own face with the sports organizations in the area by doing just that.
If you want to shoot, then shoot for practice. If you have a friend or family member in it, then I'd go so far as to say that you can shoot and give prints to them. But sell or give away prints only when you are permitted to do so. It will truly benefit you in the long run.
And if you do it your way, I'd say you are in for some issues. Good luck...
