I just visited my dealer to buy a couple of lenses for my RD1: Elmarit 28/2.8 and 75/2 Apo-Summicron, both used in mint conditions (after a brief evaluation I think this Apo-Summicron is nothing sort of amazing...).
We talked about the new "M8" and when I asked him if he can confirm the price he gave me last week, he pulled out the new price list from Leica Italia
Well, I immediately asked if there was also a new wide lens in the list and he pointed me out a new Tri-Elmar 16-18-21/4 Asph (I read it myself on the list).
So in October we'll have:
Leca M-digital............................. 3800 €
Tri-Elmar 16-18-21 f/4.0 Asph...... 2500 €
These prices are 20% italian VAT included.
US prices should be about 4000 $ for the M-digital and 2700 $ for the Tri-Elmar.
Sadly there's no Elmarit 17/2.8 Asph or Summilux 28/1.4 Asph, anyway I can hardly wait to see the new M-digital.
Excellent detective work Marco! I'd heard the rumors too. With this bit of information, I now have to decide if I should go with a 21/2.8 or the new tri-elmar.
What a coincidence, my 75/2 arrived yesterday .... wow, it's an incredible lens.
Sorry for my ignorance, but how do the tri-elmar's work? Do you need to take them off the camera to screw in/out different lens elements, or are they like zooms, but just without the ability to use the focal lengths in between? If the latter, this lens sounds like it would be a compelling reason to buy an M8 for wide angle work.
You have the correct idea. Instead of a zoom capability, it is made (with separate elements, I believe) to be used at three distinct focal lengths...all within a single lens barrel.
With a Tri-Elmar, you essentially use it as you would a normal zoom lens, except instead of a continuous zoom feature, you only have 3 discrete focal lengths. That is, nothing in between the designated values.
An F/4 apeture Tri/Zoom whatever lens is not what the Leica M philosophy is all about. Since no one seems to be able to build sensors that can do high quality work with high asa like Canon, Leica is better off designing fast apeture glass like a 21 or 24 f/2 which would alot more useful than a slow F/4 lens made for rich hobbiest traveling on vacation. Then again that's what makes money for Leica....unfortunatly.
Fair enough, but Leica already has great 21mm and 24mm f2.8 lenses. They're not f2.0, but it's pretty rare to need faster than f2.8 on those lenses even for a 1.33 crop factor. From what I understand the current Leica 21mm and 24mm f2.8 lenses are good enough to shoot wide open without hesitation for practically any purpose; and since you're only usng the central part of the image circle because of the crop factor, they should be sharp corner to corner as long as depth of field is sufficient. What the Tri-Elmar would do for someone like me, at least, is to permit me to get into a Leica M system, and have wide angle coverage, with excellent quality, albeit not fast lenses, for an almost reasonable price. The advantage of f4 lenses over f2 or f2.8 lenses is that they have inherently less potential for flare, which becomes more important for digital anyways. Personally, as someone who's never owned a Leica anything, I think the new lens release is perfect. It means I can get an M8, and 21mm-30mm lens setup (using 35mm equivalents) for about $8,000. Not cheap, but not exorbitant given the likely quality. I could combine that with one more lens, say a 50mm summicron, and have an excellent setup. Also, I expect the Leica M8 will be excellent at 400asa, and probably 800 asa, so shooting at f4, at least for the wide angles, isn't so bad.
while I don't find the new Tri-Elmar a "lens made for rich hobbiest traveling on vacation", I do agree that a trio like Elmarit 16 Asph, Summicron 21 Asph and Summilux 28 Asph would have been more in line with the core of Leica philosophy.
I only hope that the choice of designing a "patch" lens to fill the gap in the wide end with cropped sensors would suggest that a full frame M-digital is not so distant in the future, maybe a couple of years.
The Tri-Elmar lenses have historically been exemplary with outstanding quality wide open. However, the out-of-focus bokeh that one enjoys with f2.0 Leitz lenses will not be as obvious with this f4 Tri-Elmar.
In fact, the DOF will be greater than usual for an f4 35mm lens due to the smaller sensor size. F4 on an M8 will from a DOF standpoint behave more like an f5.6 or so on a FF sensor. This is fine for travel and street shooting where a large DOF is more desirable, but perhaps less so for artistic interpretation.
Without knocking the tri-Elmar which I've owned (and sold) I'd agree that it's not what I'd call mainstream Leica. If it serves to encourage newcomers to join Leica's ranks I'd say it's a smart marketing move. I suspect that once they're in the fold many will opt out of the tri-Elmar and go with primes.
If this lens is as good as the current tril-elmar (which should be not too far away from the primes) than it will be my lens.
Guys, we allready have 2.8 21 and 24 mm lenses and also 15mm from Zeiss (if Leica does not add a fast WA-prime), so a new tri-elmar really adds a new option to the system.
I think we can expect that f4 is fully usable, so no, no fast available light lens but a very universal lens. combine it with 35 and 75 or with a 50 and it might be all you need.
If you want to do availabe light get an 28/2.0asph.
Maybe there are more lenses coming from both Zeiss and Cosina at Photokina too.
I like the fact that there are so many rangefinder lenses out there. If you want a new 50mm lens for example you have about seven different lenses to choose from. If going for a DSLR you don't have as many options. I also like the fact that you can choose from.. Cheap but good lenses = Cosina Voigtländer, Expensive but top perfomance lenses = Zeiss and Very expensive but also top perfomance lenses = Leica.
marbrink wrote:
Maybe there are more lenses coming from both Zeiss and Cosina at Photokina too.
I like the fact that there are so many rangefinder lenses out there. If you want a new 50mm lens for example you have about seven different lenses to choose from. If going for a DSLR you don't have as many options. I also like the fact that you can choose from.. Cheap but good lenses = Cosina Voigtländer, Expensive but top perfomance lenses = Zeiss and Very expensive but also top perfomance lenses = Leica.
Another choice is: Nice and affordable = old Leitz. For situations where optical performance takes a back seat to character of rendition, an old lens from Wetzlar or Midland can be cheaper than C/V, better built, and really pretty. I will shortly add a 1965 Elmarit 90mm to my Leitz stable - none of them APO, ASPH, or newer than 1980. One day, I might even graduate to an uncoated optic. Eat my dust, Zeiss T*
rico wrote:
Another choice is: Nice and affordable = old Leitz. For situations where optical performance takes a back seat to character of rendition, an old lens from Wetzlar or Midland can be cheaper than C/V, better built, and really pretty. I will shortly add a 1965 Elmarit 90mm to my Leitz stable - none of them APO, ASPH, or newer than 1980. One day, I might even graduate to an uncoated optic. Eat my dust, Zeiss T*
Amen to this one Rico...........you have it right.
The most famous images, by the most famous photographers like Bresson, Capa etc were taken with lenses that most people today would reject as not worthy. Wow............is this a really telling issue or what. Granted that new technology has given us early 21st century photogs a leg up but given what has already been accomplished with these older lenses and given their prices compared to the latest generations, I would loudly submit that Leica is affordable for almost everyone. Get yourself an M6 TTL with these older lenses and you have a most wonderful image creating machine..........limited only by the image maker at the other end of the viewfinder.
For someone like myself the new leica M8 has nothing to do with buying into leica.
Myself, and many other photographers I am sure, are looking for a digital option in a discreet camera with top notch image quality that can be used for prints, photolibraries, etc..just like a film rangefinder, be it leica, zeiss, contax, minolta cle, etc but wihtout the film, process, scan issues.
A lens such as the new tri-elmar (just as the old one would have been on a film body) would be a great lens to have with this camera as it will set myself up with a great image making set..top image quality and digital..and it just happens to be leica as there may be no alternatives...but definately in that order. Personally I would love nothing more for zeiss, cosnia, etc to make this type of camera also to get the competition going and the prices down.
