This is a question for those of you who use lenses with IS. When panning and taking pictures at racetracks, do you use IS or do you turn IS off? Handhold, monopod, or tripod? Just wondering if IS really helps for this type of photography.
IS on, if it has panning mode IS (mode II) I choose that. I prefer handhold with my 70-200 because it makes me more flexible. But a good monopod is easier for your back without losing to much of flexibility.
The IS really helps. I wish all my lenses had this wonderful system!
I am curious - do the "consumer grade" lenses support the panning mode? My guess is not. (I am talking here about the 28-135 IS and the 75-300 IS). The reason I am asking is that I have sometimes considered the 28-135 IS lens, but if the IS mode isn't usable for panning, I doubt I would but it - it is already a lower quality lens optically than L glass, and it is slower - if the IS isn't usable for panning, it just isn't versatile enough.
The 28-135mm and 75-300mm do not have the special panning mode. As a result, the IS may jump a bit in small steps instead of moving smoothly when you pan from left to right.
I recently shot the Champcars at Portland and Jetsprint boats in Woodland WA and never really utilized the pan IS much. I will be shooting the Jetsprints again next weekend and will be trying some new techniques from what I learned from the other shoots and will probably be using the IS more. I did notice that when I was using it with the Champcars that it really sucked the battery down much faster.
Note that these photos are large/fine JPEGS right out of the camera with no post-processing whatsoever. I am doing some post-processing now and will re-introduce these galleries soon as it is making a huge difference.
Almost all these shots were with the 10D and the 100-400L IS. Some were with my D60 with a Sigma 70-300.
I do not use a 'pod' of any sort. I tried the monopod at Portland and found it way too restrictive. You pay for it after three days of shooting with sore shoulders, but it's worth it!
Edited by RFMSports on Jul 19, 2003 at 05:53 PM GMT
RFM, i looked through your gallery and find the photos excellent. the one that got my attention was number 0046, you can clearly see, not only his beard, but the imprint of the wire going to his eyepiece. nice job.
1/80 @ F16 ISO 100 eos 1D with 70-200 f2.8L non-IS at 200mm.
I use a monopod for panning shots with my 300 2.8 and 70-200 2.8. I mount the tripod collar.
This largely comes down to what your used to. Today i didn't mount the collar at one point, putting the camera body on the monopod, and i was way off. I am used to panning with a certain setup. A lot of people will recomend a certain setup, but a lot of it comes down to practicing.
Edited by Yeti Man on Jul 20, 2003 at 07:18 AM GMT
Thanks for the responses. Interesting how different techniques yield the same, i.e. good, results.
Being a novice at this, I found it easier to prefocus on a certain spot then pan until I got to the spot then take the picture. Does anyone else prefocus or do you use AI Servo or another technique? For those who use IS, do you have to allow startup time for the IS?
Definitely use AI Servo. I used that exclusively on my photos. Pan with shutter button half depressed and AI focus is continuous. And that would then 'auto-start' the IS if in use.
lou wrote:
RFM, i looked through your gallery and find the photos excellent. the one that got my attention was number 0046, you can clearly see, not only his beard, but the imprint of the wire going to his eyepiece. nice job.
Thanks. Just to reiterate, all those shots are with no post-processing. I am working on some new, processed galleries as I type this.
Hi, Jim: I was going through your galleries (thanks for posting those), it was interesting to see your styles. I like a number of the slant-angle shots -- adds to just a bunch of more traditional photos with the track level and near the bottom of the picture. Panning with your camera cocked at an angle must take some getting used to!
Many years ago, I did a fair amount of photography of motorcycle road and drag racing. Mostly totally different styles, and frankly I feel like I will be starting over again. I have a chance next month to shoot some road racing. I forget the class -- the cars are like downsized stock cars. I would like to try to catch some of the panning shots, and have some questions I would appreciate your pointers on (Chuck Terry too).
First, I was surprised to see the relatively wide variety of shutter speed / F-stop combinations you were using (thanks for posting the info with the pictures). It looks like maybe you were shooting in Av mode, trying to keep the aperture to F7-8 or so, and got what shutter speed you could get (look like in a majority of the champ car pictures, you weren't given a whole lot of light to deal with -- I was also surprised to see that they ran those Champ cars with that much water on the track -- seems like it would be pretty nerve wracking throwing your car into a corner in that much water!). What are you trying to get for ideal settings for the panning shots?
Also, I know that at a racetrack you don't have infinite choices of position, and can't cover everything during one event. What is the best place to position for the panning shots? Is one better off at the start of a straight away coming out of a sharp corner to be able to pickup the car going more slowly and accelerate the pan with the car, or is one better off further up the straight away to catch the car at a faster, but less quickly accelerating speed?
christo maybe I can share some of my experience as well.
The easiest shots will be when the cars are at constant speed on a straight away. Faster the car is moving, higher the chance you have of getting a sharp image. I usually DECREASE the shutter speed for fast moving vehicles. Since the car is moving so fast, its easier to pan smoothly with it and the slower shutter gives even a nicer pan bluring effect.
Side on shots aren't normally as interesting though.
SIDE ON-
1/125 @f16
More interesting, but more difficult are 3/4 shots of the car. The trick here is to be panning AND zooming with the car as it passes/moves away from you. Little more practice but results are generally more interesting.
Little ZOOM, lots of PAN-
1/125 @f11
1/125 @f8
Lots of ZOOM, little PAN-
The problem is in photos like this one though if the car is rotating. Half the car can be sharp and the other half can be motioned blurred. I'm not sure if this is a good thing (from a technical perspective the photo may be bad. I think it adds an interesting element to it however). Not sure what could be used to help correct this other than maybe a slightly higher shutter speed (DOF may have played slightly in this photo too).
1/90 @ f16
I would not worry at all about the Fstop's and run primarily in Tv mode. Afterall, DOF has little interest since the back/foreground are normally blurred by the panning anyways. As long as the car is sharp, the rest will look fine too regardless of DOF (IMO).
So generally I think you are best positioned on the side of a long, straight, fast section of the track. You will still have the ability then to do side on, 3/4 shots, etc.
"The problem is in photos like this one though if the car is rotating. Half the car can be sharp and the other half can be motioned blurred. I'm not sure if this is a good thing (from a technical perspective the photo may be bad. I think it adds an interesting element to it however). Not sure what could be used to help correct this "
Thats actually what i am trying to accomplish many times. Part of why i try to get such low shutter speeds is to have one point in focus and the rest of the vehicle to have some blur to it. If you are shooting say 1/100 second on a straight section of track, I tend to focus on the car/bike's number on the side (usually in line with the drivers head, but easier to focus on). Because the road is straight, the distances will change a bit from the ends of the vehicle and you.
Also, being stiff race suspension vehicles by nature, there is quite a bit of vibration and movement in the vehicle itself, and the number plate in the center of the car moves (vibrates) less than the ends of the car or bike.
On my motorcycle shots the shutter speeds are low enough and are shot while the bike is really laying a ton of power down, and most of the time the back of the bike will be blurred while the number on the side is sharp.
I tend to shoot very low shutter speeds to make the background a wash, and the vehicle is not ultimately sharp like it is for people shooting 1/320 or 1/500 second and faster, but thats my style and it seems to go over well.
I did two prints for a guy today of his Ford GT-40 that are otherwise identical. One was shot at 1/60 of a second, the other at 1/125. The shot at 1/125 the car is quite sharp and the background blurred, but the one at 1/60 second, the car is reasonably sharp though not ultimately, but the background is just a wash of horizontal blurrrrr. Most people who looked at them said the sharper one was really cool, a great picture, but when they looked at the other one they just grinned. Most people preferred it, and the car owner/driver wants that one in a 13x19 print now.
Hit all the bases and see what works for you. At least it's digital and won't cost you $200 in a days film and processing to experiment
As a fan of rally racing, I like the shot of the Subaru; Rally racing is about sliding, bouncing and otherwise making the car go in the right direction by pointing it in whatever direction is necessary, even if a "bit of a moment" happens now and again. The shot with the back blurred captures this much better then something more static; you can imagine the back of that car sliding out. It captures the sport better then "technically perfect" pictures would, though I think the term doesn't have a lot of meaning anyway
Wow! Lotsa great info and samples in this thread. Tulit is correct in aiming for angled shots. Portland International Raceway is perfect with the Festival Curves. It's a slow chicane and you can shoot from many locations, with media access. You can get the cars coming into the corner. Apexing the corner. And then leaving the corner. It's an awesome location and where I took most of my shots. I actually should have shot from a couple more locations, but that place is perfect.
I have posted a new gallery with photos that have been post-processed and you can see it here.
The 'angled' shots really are not that difficult. No more difficult than any other pan. It just takes practice and I guarantee that I had plenty of throwaways both at the track and when reviewing shots when I got home.
I learned a lot from this shoot and will try new things in the future to improve my shots. I made plenty of mistakes, and some of them are apparent in the above listed gallery. I'm shooting sprint boats next weekend, so that will be my first chance to experiment further.
