I want to concur with the sentiment expressed by others above. I'm a relative newcomer to your site, but I have already purchased 3 items offered on this board from other board members. Being able to pull up their 'bio', check out their website, and even confirm phone numbers provided, lends a great deal towards the seller's credibility in my mind. I feel that a small community like this is much more likely to spot a bad apple than not (the signal to noise ratio here is a LOT lower...). Please consider taking a poll of your members, before shutting this down.
Regards,
jacobb wrote:
Ok, Who wants to help me track this punk down. I need all the help I can get. Any info on how to track someone and how to file legal or police action aganist him would be great. Please email me at [email protected]. We can make an example of this punk. Please let me know if you can help. Thanks a lot.
Jacob Bongiovanni
Hello Jacob,
Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I was able to do a lookup by area code and prefix and this number belongs to a cell phone. Here is the name of the phone company:
SOUTHWESTERN BELL MOBILE SYSTEMS DBA CELLULAR ONE
The city is OGLESBY
The phone number for customer service is:
Illinois
In State:
1-800-244-4444
I would suggest that those that were defrauded go a step further and report this to the FBI. It's internet fraud and they ( the FBI ) do pursue these guys.
Fred I agree withjsandfort please don't shut the Buy and Sell forum down.
Fred Miranda wrote:
PS: I'm considering terminating this board...
Please don't Fred. I've bought here before, and advertised some of my gear here, and never had any problems.
If you give in to the 1% of the population that does the wrong thing, you will be catering to the lowest common denominator (a common approach in these politically correct times we live in), and as a result 99% of the forums users will suffer to some degree.
I don't think anyone blames you for any of this, all blame seems to be pointed right where it belongs - at the guy who ripped these people off! And that is the way it should be...
I feel for those who were ripped off by this individual, and hope that they will catch up with him eventually, but I feel that they would also prefer to keep the forum open (what do you say, guys?).
jsandfort wrote:
Fred, please don't. I'll venture a guess that more than 95% of the deals done here leave both parties satisfied. It's always risky dealing on the internet. People buying need to take reasonable steps to mitigate risk. Or not make deals on the internet.
Fred, I agree - please don't! I have purchased a few great items here and would hate to see it go. Everybody is on their own in making sure that all necessary steps are taken to check out the "seller" before actually pulling the trigger on any sale.
Fred, don't let someone who didn't take the common sense precautions in making an on line purchase compel you to abandon this forum. I would venture to guess that 99.9% of all purchases are culminated satisfactorily. Even you stated that this the the first bad apple that you know of that used this forum to scam someone.
Yikes... this is the first time I've ever seen anything like this happen here. I certainly hope the guys that were ripped off are either compensated in the end, or put the crook away and at least walk away with a little satasfaction, if with a big hole in the pocket
In any case, I just wanted to also throw in my support for this forum, for whatever it may be worth. The only thing really wrong with it is that selling here is tough because people looking to buy here tend to be a bit more educated than they are on eBay...
If changes need to be made, I agree that the precautions mentioned should become a permanent part of this board and always visible as a banner, perhaps.
BigJoe wrote:
In any case, I just wanted to also throw in my support for this forum, for whatever it may be worth. The only thing really wrong with it is that selling here is tough because people looking to buy here tend to be a bit more educated than they are on eBay...
Joe
Joe,
I do not see anything wrong with this - that is why most sales on this forum are not fradulent - leave e-bay as it is for those who are less informed!
He was good.
I was burned once before on Yahoo classifieds but it was a new camera at a rediculously low price. One of those to good to be true deals. I should have known better on that one.
Tony was slicker.
Advertised used goods at a fair price. He went into detail about how much he paid at B&H for the lens and filter. He even wouldn't negotiate the price much, we finally agreed to split the shipping.
He was very fast at responding to emails before and right after the sale. Even up until he said his wife shipped it because he was called out of town on a semi-urgent personal matter. He promised tracking number the next day, but that was the last email.
He sent me a paypal invoice immediately after we agreed on a price.
I didn't have any clue he was a crook.
Unfortunately I had money in my paypal account so I can't go to the credit card company.
I filled out the paypal complaint form but they give him 10 days to respond. By then, I am sure he'll have received his check and be long gone.
I also know that anything under $500 isn't even worked on by the police in most states.
It is below their felony limit. I don't know about IL, but since the most he took was $900, I'd guess it is probably $901.00 in that state.
FRED, I don't blame you and hope you don't cancel this forum because of this.
We all know the risk of internet trading and most of us are just camera nuts who buy something we just "have to have" and then in a few months realize we don't use it.
Then we sell it to buy something else.
This forum is a nice place to do that and I hope it continues.
Frank in Atlanta
I also am a relative newcomer here, but have bought several items with absolutely NO problems. I feel that the board is a great place to find great items at reasonable prices. Please do not let the 1% (or less) of the bad apples ruin it for everyone.
I agree with what the others are syaing. Please do NOT delete this forum. It would be unfortunate indeed to let 1 or 2 rotten apples spoil what is otherwise a very useful resource.
Yes, Fred, don't discontinue this forum. You can never guarantee a transaction wherever you buy and your cutting this board will only hurt all the people that do benefit from it which is most people here.
Also IMO you can not judge someone by the number of posts on the board. I am a newer member yet have already made successful purchases from a couple of members of this board yet do not have nearly 100 messages credited (yet ). In my case though I can give my ebay feedback as a reference and my user name is the same there as here so it does help validate me. That is a good idea for safety. People should use some kind of validation for someone. Either from other sales here or ebay or other users that do know him/her.
If there is the slightest bit of suspicion, better save your money for another transaction with someone more trustworthy. Even on ebay, I will not buy from someone with none too few previous sales. The item becomes very expensive if you pay for it and don't get it. People just have to watch themselves. After all it is their money and no one can afford to just throw it away. Also if the person wants payment by some special method where you have no guarantee just be smart and refuse the transaction.
I just want to throw in my appeal to not rid of this valuable asset....though not a big 'seller', I have sold two small items and bought a couple--I certainly feel safer here than anywhere else.....
I'm sure you probably feel horrible right now, but I'd have to agree with the masses. I vote for leaving it up as well.
This site is truly one of the GEMS of the internet and it pained me yesterday to see this post and read what happened. It unfortunate, but I guess this is the world we live in.....
I think we will all be just a tad bit more cautious as we make our purchases.
Fred, there is no need to close this board. It is a GREAT service and I have bought a D60 from a member here - totally happy. As someone mentioned here, seller and buyer need to practice common sense.
It is a NATURAL TENDENCY for us hobbists to trust each other. Unfortunately crooks take advantage of that. And yes, I think the whole community is violated, not just jjacob.
I have done over 100 transactions on ebay, and here my humber advises based on my experiences:
1. Paypal has insurance for up to $250. Use that. Do read the instructions on how to qualify the transaction for the insurance. (i.e. verified member, etc.)
2. For over $250, use an escrow service. Do this even if the seller has more than 100 posts. There are known cases where a crook lurk on a board for a while before making his moves.
3. Look for additional signs of trustworthliness, since post-count is not always a good indication. In my case, both my major purchases (a D30 and a D60) I bought from people that has been on the board for a few years and they both have a personal gallery web site with published addresses and phone number. This is not a catch-all sign that it is safe, but at least give you some additional indication. BTW, when I say gallery, I don't mean pbase. I mean an actual personal web site for the person's photography business.
4. But nevertheless, I think escrow is the safest way to go. I have used escrow.com with success and I think it is safe since it is the "official" escrow service of ebay.
5. Oh, obviously, the safest thing is to buy/sell with hobbist local to you. But that limits your selection / exposure severely.
===============
BTW, Fred, I just bought your Shadow Recovery actions. Love it!
See if there is a way for buyers to post feedback on a member. The histories should be tracked and be easily looked up. Photo.net has this feature and it helps somewhat.
But regardless, Fred, don't get me wrong. It's not your obligation. This board is a service you provide and it is "use at one's own risk".
). In my case though I can give my ebay feedback as a reference and my user name is the same there as here so it does help validate me. That is a good idea for safety. People should use some kind of validation for someone. Either from other sales here or ebay or other users that do know him/her.