Thanks, there are some good points and ideas. I will run some final tests and summarize the "cons" and "pros". In the end the tests will be more usage than the device gets in the real world, but I need to know the limits.
Many of the limits are to my patience. Man, as a USB drive this thing is slow! However, my data refutes the high battery consumption as a USB device mentioned in the review. Over 60GB and not yet finished...
hey, its give and take. goes in fast comes out a little slower. ok maybe more then just a little slower, but that depends on a lot of factors too. ya put it in fast enough now you pay for the biggie HD.
I have concluded that the HD80 is slow for routine use. However, I'll configure two of them with some old unused 100GB drives for contingency use. A pair of 120GB USB drives with the notebook will be better for primary (triplicate) use.
1. Very slow transfer rate from computer to PSD, ~8.2 MB/sec. max., 7.8 MB/sec. typ. Total transfer is ~68 GB per charge.
2. Slow transfer rate from PSD to computer, ~9.8 MB/sec. max., 9.1 MB/sec. typ. Total transfer is ~78 GB per charge.
3. Very slow transfer rate from CF card to PSD in verify mode, ~2.7 MB/sec. (However, mode is of questionable value.)
4. Mediocre transfer rate (~5.7 MB/sec.) when used as a CF reader/writer.
5. Cells cannot be charged while in use. Plug must be removed and reinserted to start charge. Cord blocks battery access.
6. Integrated charger not up to par with partially charged cells or cells not recently used, sometimes overcharging and sometimes undercharging. Does not condition cells. (A 3rd party charger may be needed.)
7. Hard drive appears as a removable device in Windows, limiting many functions and utilities usually applicable to USB drives.
8. Cannot delete files. Self-formatting only allowed if disk format error is encountered or with special file.
9. Can only write to contiguous free hard drive space.
10. Control wheel functions not intuitive nor indicated in the display (bring the manual).
11. CF card slot is very shallow (1/4” deep).
12. Battery compartment door and CF/control cover do not fit very well; excessive effort and pressure are required. Battery orientation indicators are poorly placed.
Pros:
1. Very high transfer rate from CF card to PSD, ~9.5MB/sec.
2. Exceptional total data download per battery set (~82 GB) due to high CF card to PSD transfer rate, though significantly dependent on NiMH cells and condition.
3. Low cost.
4. Reasonably rugged, metal-clad body.
5. Well supplied with compact and lightweight 100-240V charger, 12V auto adapter, belt case and batteries.
AA cells: Sanyo 2500 mAH (~1.5 years old)
CF cards: Sandisk 2GB and 4GB Extreme III
Hard disk: Seagate 100 GB, 5400.2
Of course the USB host controller, can affect speeds, but the same HD achieves around 27 MB/sec. reads in a simple USB enclosure. I have tried two different systems and three benchmarks, plus hand timing of 4GB chunks. All results were similar; none were over 10 MB/sec. How did you get 12.91? Was it a short transfer that might be affected by caching? Did you reboot before each test?
I'm running SiSoft Sandra, and the *average* speeds were almost 13 MB/sec for ~6 meg files. (my average RAW file size.. why would you compare anything else?)
It goes much higher for 32 and 64mb chunks, as well as lower for the 256-512k chunks.
.... how and what are you using to test your speeds?
Edit:
Running HDD Tach 3.0.1.0 I see 12.4 MB/sec sustained for 8mb chunks and 12.2 for 32 meg chunks.
Interestingly enough, my Lexar 80x 1GB shows 9.9 MB/sec.
Thanks. USB performance is often controller/OS/hard drive dependent, so diferences are not surprising. The mfg. spec is up to 16.6 MB/sec. reads and 8.2 MB/sec. for writes. Since my primary usage would be writing from the notebook to the HD80, the speed is hopelessly slow compared to a $20 enclosure. What are your HD80 write speeds?
Maybe your root issue with the device is that your trying to use it in such a way that it wasn't designed to do.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but, it's designed to dump cards from CF to the HDD as fast as possible, and then dump from the HD80 to your PC quickly.
I don't think mine will see much PC -> HD80... if ever. I bet most people here won't be using it that way either. I can name a boat load of products that would be better for that purpose - an external enclosure would be one of them.
1. Very slow transfer rate from computer to PSD, ~8.2 MB/sec. max., 7.8 MB/sec. typ. Total transfer is ~68 GB per charge.
2. Slow transfer rate from PSD to computer, ~9.8 MB/sec. max., 9.1 MB/sec. typ. Total transfer is ~78 GB per charge.
3. Very slow transfer rate from CF card to PSD in verify mode, ~2.7 MB/sec. (However, mode is of questionable value.)
4. Mediocre transfer rate (~5.7 MB/sec.) when used as a CF reader/writer.
5. Cells cannot be charged while in use. Plug must be removed and reinserted to start charge. Cord blocks battery access.
6. Integrated charger not up to par with partially charged cells or cells not recently used, sometimes overcharging and sometimes undercharging. Does not condition cells. (A 3rd party charger may be needed.)
7. Hard drive appears as a removable device in Windows, limiting many functions and utilities usually applicable to USB drives.
8. Cannot delete files. Self-formatting only allowed if disk format error is encountered or with special file.
9. Can only write to contiguous free hard drive space.
10. Control wheel functions not intuitive nor indicated in the display (bring the manual).
11. CF card slot is very shallow (1/4” deep).
12. Battery compartment door and CF/control cover do not fit very well; excessive effort and pressure are required. Battery orientation indicators are poorly placed.
Pros:
1. Very high transfer rate from CF card to PSD, ~9.5MB/sec.
2. Exceptional total data download per battery set (~82 GB) due to high CF card to PSD transfer rate, though significantly dependent on NiMH cells and condition.
3. Low cost.
4. Reasonably rugged, metal-clad body.
5. Well supplied with compact and lightweight 100-240V charger, 12V auto adapter, belt case and batteries.
AA cells: Sanyo 2500 mAH (~1.5 years old)
CF cards: Sandisk 2GB and 4GB Extreme III
Hard disk: Seagate 100 GB, 5400.2
you do mean this as a joke right.
i'm disappointed you don't have the seagate 5400.3 perpendicular writing HD in there. what happened.
your cons my answer to them
1- name one thats faster
2- true but there are mitigatng factors that can affect that and it is limited by the USB bus itself. i'm not in that much of a hurry back at home base and you do have 2 right?
3- hey you want it right it checks before and after xfr. thats going to take some time to do. again name a unit produced today tha even gives you the option.
4- it not design to actually do that think of it as a value added freeby
5- there aren't too many that do both at once if at all
6- once the cells are accustomed to being charged it doesn't do a bad job.
7- like what do you want to do with it other then use it as a HD? what is missing? see image below
8- no you cannot erase it via the unit itself. a real good feature for some real stupid people. you have to consciuosly plug it in to you base computer and then with forethought erase the folders from the drive of all your valuble shots. sounds like a real value added feature to me.
9- mine is seen as a removable disk as it is when in download mode. what are you missing? if you want to optimize for performance thats easily done.
10- you got me there i'll agree thats why i've taped a cheat sheet on the back for reference and the operations pdf is on my pda
11-so the should have made it either bigger or the things like the display, display driver and operating hardware smaller
12- the battery compartment door is just fine learn just how to use it.. you just have to get used to it. it securely holds the cells inside and requires a proceedure to open it and close it securely. its a slide up flip open flip down slide down. my battery orientation indicators are placed quite well actually better them most that i have to look down in the barrels to see them http://i.pbase.com/g3/89/44489/3/56822420.PICT0091.jpg http://i.pbase.com/o4/89/44489/1/56822953.Capture5.jpg
EB-1 wrote:
Thanks. USB performance is often controller/OS/hard drive dependent, so diferences are not surprising. The mfg. spec is up to 16.6 MB/sec. reads and 8.2 MB/sec. for writes. Since my primary usage would be writing from the notebook to the HD80, the speed is hopelessly slow compared to a $20 enclosure. What are your HD80 write speeds?
EB-1 wrote:
Thanks. USB performance is often controller/OS/hard drive dependent, so diferences are not surprising. The mfg. spec is up to 16.6 MB/sec. reads and 8.2 MB/sec. for writes. Since my primary usage would be writing from the notebook to the HD80, the speed is hopelessly slow compared to a $20 enclosure. What are your HD80 write speeds?
EB
Now I understand why you consider the HD80 not worth the 17 day wait and seem to be focussing on the "cons" you found in your testing of the device. The HD80 is a tool that is designed for rapid and convenient transfer of data from a MEMORY CARD to a hard drive while in the field. It is an excellent tool that is useful to photographers. Although the HD80 can be used as you describe as your primary usage, it is not the primary purpose of the unit. But, don't feel let down. Apparently, future firmware enhancements promise increased usb transfer speeds. Maybe then the HD80 might suit your purpose better.
Wow, that would be great if the USB transfer speeds (especially writes) were increased by a firmware update!
To answer some questions above, most cons are merely annoyances, not deal breakers in such a cheap device. Regarding 1, the primary concern, I have been using two Trippers - popular PSDs in 2002-2003. The USB transfer rates are ~25 MB/sec. for reads and ~21 MB/sec. for writes (about the limit for the drive), so I mistakenly assumed that any recent PSD would have good USB transfer rates. I needed to replace the Trippers with something that accepts FAT32 (4GB) CF cards and has better CF -> PSD copy speed. Of course the HD80s CF copy speeds are truly impressive, but I hope never to need it. I seriously doubt that the 160GB 5400.3 will be any faster in the HD80, so I will save that for the notebook upgrade. Regarding 7, Partition Magic cannot see the drive, and I would like to use that to format and/or partition the disk. The recycle bin function is also lost since the HD80 is as a removable drive. Regarding 8, I would like to be able to erase a folder to recover HD space if necessary, e.g., if the batteries die after 3.5GB of a 4GB card is downloaded, but it is not critical.
Overall I think the HD80 is a very nice storage device at an excellent price and would recommend it to anyone. I hope the OP buys one and is satisfied with it.
wow! they can be. but realize that somewhre payment will need to made. some level of performance will need to suffer. those tripprs were just about functional at transfer from card to HD which is your primary function i believe in this product.
you are correct in that the waste bin because it has no function in this drive and again with P8 not seeing it can be a drive for formatting can be a blessing for some. having a "KEY" needed to format is yes somewhat a a pain for the supersophisticated computer user but not for the potential all thumbs user.
oh if your thinking of file recovery after erasing, photorescue just loves to root around a supposedly empty drive and get things back. its just searching through a 60 (mine) or in your case 100GB drive takes awhile
i've had mine since last june of 05 and only reformated 1 time so far and that was to test the "KEY". v2.1 cleaned up a few things in the file catagory among other things
the whole thing is based on the Mac concept. you follow the rules and it will work just fine. if you want to play this is not the product for you. its does its job well. everything has its strengths and weaknesses
sjms wrote:
oh if your thinking of file recovery after erasing, photorescue just loves to root around a supposedly empty drive and get things back. its just searching through a 60 (mine) or in your case 100GB drive takes awhile
Did the HD80 malfunction or are you trying to recover files lost due to user error? I hope it is the latter.
By the way, when you place an order with backorder, do Hyperdrive charge you right away, or only when the item is shipped? I have a positive info my payment will take place on the 11th ( next saturday ), but the backorder has started... I wonder if I could place the order right away and guarantee an early shipping.
I don't think you can really control the shipping date. It depends on when the people (person?) at Sanho receive their shipments from Asia, pack it up and send it to the customer. I would not be too concerned. Have you tried sending an e-mail?
Man, as a USB drive this thing is slow! However, my data refutes the high battery consumption as a USB device mentioned in the review. Over 60GB and not yet finished...
