In all cases, if someone is planning to get into a genuine Leica rangefinder digital, they're just gonna have to wait. For the body anyway.
You can start stock-piling lenses if you can afford to ......
2006? I doubt it. It may be "announced and released" sometime (?) next year but the entire Leica world-wide supply pipeline won't be filled up with them for a long, LONG time. Not even close ...
Sometime in 2007? Possibly but I still wouldn't hold my breath.
Leica loves the exclusivity of their products ... and their loyal customer base.
When it comes to maximizing what they can charge for their goods, less means more.
This is like dangling a carrot in front of the ox pulling the cart. Do it right and the stupid ox will do everything to get that carrot, including deal cards and serve coffee. Do it wrong - allow it to eat too many carrots - then the ox gets full and mystery is over.
If Guy Mancuso's Leica contact proves correct, then take every M-mount lens and LST (Leica screw thread) lens you currently own - or crave - and multiply the focal length by 1.3.
If you're a wide angle shooter, ya just got hosed!!! BIG TIME!!! Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin!!!
Spend USD 5k for a Leica Digital M (per Mr. Mancuso) and your 21mm loses a lot of "steam": It's now just short of a 28mm. That's it. That's all she wrote. mate! (That's as wide as you'll be shooting unless ...)
That "spent the kid's inheritance money" 24mm is now a rather ho-hum 30mm-and-change "wide angle". Ha! Some wide angle - 31mm?!?!
Your 28mm "morphs" into a 36-1/2mm. Ugh! Not good!
Your 35mm - in whatever flavor (not to worry; you no longer need it for wide angle use!) - is now your new normal lens. It's a 45-1/2mm when it starts lighting up pixels instead of sensitizing silver halide grains.
If you think that beautiful 50mm f/1/4 Summilux-M looks good as a "normal" lens, then you'll have to get used to it being a short telephoto - about 65mm.
Forget that 75mm you always wanted: You're almost there with the 50.
However, if you DO own a 75mm, it's longer than the current 90mm in your case - by almost 8mm.
Your 90mm zooms itself - plus that USD $ 5,000.00 body cost, of course - out to a robust 117mm length.
If your particular M-body currently accepts a 135mm lens and you can just shift it over to your new USD $ 5,000.00 digi-M body, you now have a whopping 175mm monster in your hands! Wow-EE!
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As with all dig-cams, wide-angle shooters get the shaft, telephoto shooters get more bang for the buck.
Some older wide-angle jewels Leitz made have limited compatability with modern M-series camera bodies. That's unlikely to change just because the body has a digital sensor instead of a film transport system.
Unless E. Leitz comes up with some "magic bullets" wider than their current lineup, they're gonna make some people unhappy and force others to jump ship.
OK .... with a 1.33X factor, my math corrections for wide-angle afficianados are even WORSE!
21mm = a hair short of a 28mm. Until those ULTRA-wide Leitz optics are available ... that 15mm f/2.8 Zeiss-Ikon ZM T* Distagon is starting to look MIGHTY appealing!!! (And Leitz KNOWS this too!!!)
24mm = an odd-ball (?) 32mm focal length ....
28mm = just over 37mm - - ANOTHER odd-ball length!
35mm = 45.5mm. As I said, say hello to your new "normal" lens .....
50mm = 66.5mm. M-body portrait shooters everywhere are rejoicing! And it could be a 66.5mm f/1.0 if your dad is a Middle Eastern oil sheik ...
75mm = Forget decimal points. This is a 100mm telephoto. If it happens to derive itself from the f/1.4 Summilux, SWEET!!!!
90mm = 120mm? I could enjoy this lens a LOT! Just not for a additional $ 5,000.00 buy-in! But a 120mm f/2 APO-Summicrom-M ASPH certainly IS an appealing tool!!!
135mm = Almost a 180mm f/3.4 APO-Telyt-M mid-tele!!! On a Leica M-body WITHOUT that clunky Visoflex!!!! YES!!!!!
The 28-35-50mm f/4 Tri-Elmar could come off smelling like a rose to those on a budget. Pick up one lens and get a 37mm-45mm-66mm zoom. I could live with that. Add that 15mm f/2.8 Zeiss ZM T* Distagon to replace what Leica took away ...
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Told my wife that if I die before she does, please cremate me with my Leica equipment. She smirked and said if the Leica equipment keeps getting more expensive, she'll smother me in my sleep, just throw the body by the side of the road ... and sell the Leica stuff and take that whirl-wind vacation she's always wanted.
I have the 21 asph, 28 asph, 35 Summicron asph., 50 Summicron, and the 90 Summicron Apo.
I can tell you the new 28 apsh is the sharpest wide angle lens I have ever used. The 90 is the sharpest lens I have ever used. My friend also tells me the new 50 Summilux Asph is without excpetion the finest 50 ever made by anyone.
The 24 asph is suprisingly not as good as I had hoped for though.
Leica rep here in LA pretty much said the same thing to me. Their goal is to have the digital M for under $5K which is surprisingly low to me.
I have spoken to current digital M tester and he has told me they are a bit off on their scheduled 2006 introduction as 2007 seems for realistic.
I have the 21 asph, 28 asph, 35 Summicron asph., 50 Summicron, and the 90 Summicron Apo.
You also have WAY too much disposible income! =
I can tell you the new 28 apsh is the sharpest wide angle lens I have ever used. The 90 is the sharpest lens I have ever used. My friend also tells me the new 50 Summilux Asph is without excpetion the finest 50 ever made by anyone.
Gee whiz, Josef, for the amount of money these things cost - I hope you'd expect nothing less! If I buy a Ferrari, I expect the damned thing to PERFORM like a Ferrari!
The 24 asph is suprisingly not as good as I had hoped for though.
Surprising. I've heard nothing but fantastic comments about it - just don't have the cash for one. Yet. (My wife is still looking over my shoulder!)
Buy it new? Still under warranty? If so, I'd try another one - maybe contact E. Leitz USA direct and squawk a bit.
By the time the Digital M comes out, I'll already be shooting with a Canon 5D and a 35/1.4L for street photography. I would really prefer a rangefinder for much of my work, but there are too many compromises.
Guy Mancuso wrote:
Yea the DMR was delayed also, would not surprise me a late release, what else is new .
I think it will be a winner , This sensor is awesome from the DMR and if the M has it, look out world . It will rock, start looking for 15mm and 12mm lensesthough.
The DMR sensor is a Kodak sensor, the M doesn't have it AFIK. It's some sort of newfangled sensor with non-uniform microlenses.
go4it wrote:
If Guy Mancuso's Leica contact proves correct, then take every M-mount lens and LST (Leica screw thread) lens you currently own - or crave - and multiply the focal length by 1.3.
If you're a wide angle shooter, ya just got hosed!!! BIG TIME!!! Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin!!!
Leica has probably done the math and realized most M owners use either 50mm or 35mm lenses. Using the 1.33 conversion, a 28mm Summicron will fit in where you used the 35mm and the 35mm in the place of the 50mm. I can see the sales of the 28mm suddenly get better.
I would guess the wide angle shooter is the minority in the Leica M users. For those that want to have something equivalent to the 21mm, Leica will probably come out with a new 15mm.
Most Leica M shooters like me use the moderate wide glass like 28 and 35mm. Although I have the 21 asph. I rarely use since the 35mm and the 28 (to a lesser extent) are absolutly perfect for shooting documentary and env. portraits.
I can live using just one lens on my M digital as long as it's a 35mm lens (or 28mm on a cropped camera.
Agree with Josef. The 28 and 35 are usually mounted on my M6 and MP, and they are really superb lenses. I only use the 21 for dramatic effects, but not too often.
Edmund just hit on the big advantage with a Digital M, the focusing accuracy. I have noticed on the DMR that with a crop factor, your 28mm is not as easy to focus as a 50mm. On the DMR, the 50mm snaps into focus easier than a 28mm f2.8, with its slower aperture and more depth of field. With a rangefinder, this is moot because you are still just matching the rangfinder image. The speed or the focal length mounted has no affect on the rangefinder patches.
It has long been said that a rangefinder is much more accurate in focusing a wide angle.
I am definitely looking forward to the digital M, and while we all want a full frame chip, we probably just aren't going to get one. Full frame chips are currently possible, but difficult for SLR's, but well-nigh impossible for rangefinders. The problem with rangefinders is that the wide angle lenses have non-retrofocus designs which have their rear elements very close to the film plane. Next time you find yourself near an M wide angle...check out the rear cap -- look at the 35 lux ASPH, the rear element sits less than half an inch from the film plane. The 21mm super angulons are even closer. The problem is that digital sensors are quite reflective and do not deal well with light that hits them at an angle. It either reflects and causes flare or vignettes severely. Until they completely redesign microlenses to deal better with off-axis light, full frame rangefinders are going to be impossible. Look at the Epson RD-1...it was a 1.6 crop, and the wide angle lenses vignette drastically, even with a small sensor. Add to that the cost of the high rejection rates of the full frame sensors and you are looking at catastrophic costs for mediocre performance. If Leica did that they would be sunk. They can get away with very high costs, but only when they make a great product.
In any case, I am looking forward to it, regardless, but we should remember that it is not so simple as just sticking a sensor in there and being done with it. It is a very great engineering challenge, one that Leica probably doesn't have the finances to do.
I have heard through that they are going to release some lens designs with digital in mind. I think that voigtlander and Zeiss's 15mm lenses probably require Leica to come out with an equivalent lens. They have one in the R system, so they are certainly capable of it. I would not be terribly surprised if they tried to set themselves apart by going slightly wider...like a 14mm or something, just to try to recapture the market from Zeiss, but I could be wrong.
first of all let me say this looks like a great site for digital camera guys. I was on the leica forum and saw a link to the dmr thread here and I must say it kept me reading all night. i am a member of many camera sites especially those leica friendly ones I have an r9 with a dmr and a 19 as my digital camera. I have been a liong time M owner and love everything about it. As you can imagine, I will be getting the digital m when released to compliment my existing m lenses and mp. for thos who wonder of the m lenses capabilities, the link below will let you down load a 100meg file shot with velvia 100 and an M. obviously the grain is visible but the native resolution the image was scanned at is something like 33 megapixels. printing at 300 dpi would rended a native 16 x 24. pretty impressive. none the less, if you have time look at the detail in thoise images. its incredible! I think everyone will think twice abot dumping their film cameras after seeing this. Oh yes, here is the link.
I like the one with noise ninja. Anyway this looked like a good thread to talk about the M lenses. Soon I will post my DMR shots as well Glad to be a new member here.
You can download the 100MB original files at:
www.tdl.com/~netex/fm/50mmtest1.tif
www.tdl.com/~netex/fm/50mmtest1withnoiseninja-1.tif
Warning 100MB each!
?) next year but the entire Leica world-wide supply pipeline won't be filled up with them for a long, LONG time. Not even close ... 
