Great! We haven't had a don't-use-the-American-flag-in-the-wrong-way thread this year. But they come around every so often - I've seen at least two before this one. And it is always the same arguments and the same counter-arguments.
From an outsider's view (I'm South African, and proud of it too!) I must admit that the Americans who commented on this thread are absolutely priceless. Stereotypical in my eyes, but fantastic to observe in action. Frankly, I don't have any feelings for your flag - I usually see it spray-painted onto the tank of a motorcycle, or tattoo'd onto the arm of a biker - but hell, you guys are really entertaining!
Interesting that the USA are involved in so many wars. The way you chaps go at each other for using the flag, it is surprising that you still have time left to fight anybody else! There may be another American civil war yet - between the flag worshippers and the flag not-carers!
Anyway, the picture is poor, in my opinion. The flag adds nothing to it, nor does it take anything away. I think it is important to get lighting and focus right, before concentrating on props and clothing and even poses. Get the basics in place, and then worry about the rest.
Maybe there is a point to the flag and there is a reason it is touching the ground?
I dont like the picture.
In anycase learning other cultures is fairly important in business. You wouldn't want to offend a client by having their countries flag touching the ground, if that is viewed in a negative way in their country. Even if you dont find it to be a bad thing, it could cost you a job.
Maybe I'm being naive, but I'm a little surprised this thread is still running, given the level of vitriol and number of insults on display.
As for the picture, not a huge fan, feels like the flag was just dropped on her at the last minute as something of an afterthought (no strong feelings either way on if its use was appropriate).
Also, as others have said, it does look overall too soft for me.
adamdewilde wrote:
Ok now what he said bothers me, "Just one other question: upon r re-examining the image I am wondering what the models' and photographers Nationalities are..." - Amateur_Photog...
Adam
The intent there was to illustrate that the current wave of patriotism is to show support for either our troops overseas, our administrations efforts on the "war against terror", or lingering reaction to the terrorist attacks of 9/11. The bottom line here is that America has declared a war against the concept of terrorism. When I ask what your Nationality is, I am trying to determine where your loyalties lie. In general, would the model/photographer say they are for or against the fight against terrorism. This use of the flag suggests the latter. I am not a fan of fence sitters. Take a stand if you believe in something, but don't post an image that suggests one thing then run and hide when people start flaming you for posting an unpopular opinion.
Remember, America is first and foremost...a democracy. Granted it is republican in nature, but the concept of a democracy still holds true. And bottom line in a democracy is: majority rules. What did you think was going to happen? In a country that is still, by and large, supporting the fight against terrorism, this was going to be the natural reaction. That being the case, why have we not heard one iota from the thread originator?
Amateur_Photog wrote:
That being the case, why have we not heard one iota from the thread originator?
The OP created many threads without replying a single word. I don't expect him to reply to this either. I guess there isn't anything we can do to make him talk.
Reckon he is either ashamed or guilt ridden or both. Maybe he realized its a poor photo done in poor taste. Check your local paper for recent suicides.
Oh my you people are out there. He asked for an opinion, he didn't reply but got under your skin. Hey fellow Americans, it's a girl, pretty hot at that, a nice attempt at photography and she is wearing the strongest colors going. Let it be and calm down. We are Americans here, for the most part, and we need to settle down.
I have no problem with the flag touching the ground, but the photo seems too soft for my taste.
Even if I have no problem with the flag touching the ground, you need to know what kind of reaction this would get and it does not seem you intended it, which makes the photo all the more unsuccesful.
Edited by Keith Sheridan on Sep 01, 2005 at 07:08 PM GMT
It's sad but ultimately useful that this thread is stripping the credibility from so many of the posters.
People are making dismissive, unhelpful and unnecessarily-harsh criticisms of the picture based not on its technical or artistic merits but because they do not like a particular aspect of its content.
These people are revealing that they will say something not because they believe it is true, but because a personal agenda has either swayed their opinion or simply made them want to hurt someone's feelings.
How can we ever trust those people's criticisms as being genuine?
A bunch of responders going nuts 'cuz the OP had the .... to put a pack of smokes in the photo.
This post, though, has both techie discussion and the dumb political responses, and it's more interesting.
As to the photo, I don't really see OOF. I didn't like the jeans, and I had to figure out if she was kneeling or sitting or what.
As to the flag, I guess it's not cool, but it doesn't kill me to see it. But, at the same time, the OP should have had a clue.
Quite frankly, I think the flag touching the ground is just what it is...I don't think that the OP wanted to show us any political 'message' here. Just a girl in a flag.
Meejahor wrote:
"These people are revealing that they will say something not because they believe it is true, but because a personal agenda has either swayed their opinion or simply made them want to hurt someone's feelings."
Hey Andrew,
What kind of dripple is this. There is absolutely no way you could know this. That is just your opinion of what you are reading. Nothing more and nothing less. Some people feel very strongly about some issues. It should not be a surprise that this post stirred those emotions. This person either knew that or should have known that before posting. You can't tell me that there hasn't been there fair share of arguements and fights over there in the United Kingdom because someone poo pooed the Queen in some manner.
Meejahor wrote:
"People are making dismissive, unhelpful and unnecessarily-harsh criticisms of the picture based not on its technical or artistic merits but because they do not like a particular aspect of its content."
There are post on here every day that comment on things that should not be in a photo. So commenting on the American flag as long as it is in a calm manner should be no different. I agree some may have pushed the envelope a little with there response. However most of them at least commented on the +/- of the photo before commenting on the flag. Again, the poster shouldn't be to surprised about the responses.
Meejahor wrote:
"How can we ever trust those people's criticisms as being genuine?"
You might want to step back from your monitor and take a few deep breaths. I say that with tongue in cheek because we all know that everything we read on the internet is true.
Just out of curiousity. Take a look at my post and tell me if you think I was to harsh or out of line.
It is funny to me how art can inspire a political debate. Some one posted a photograph
hoping for some advice and help and what he gets is a bunch of political agenda.
The photograph in general could use some work, the composition is very center - weighted
and the lighting is flat,( at this stage very like a Glamour Shots image) but if you keep working on it, you could get something nice. DONT let people here get you down. Just keep
shooting.
On the otherside of this post.
A flag is just another item made of cloth it (in itself ) has no more symbolism then a bed sheet. It IS what the flag inspires that is so special ( The peoples right to freedom of speech and expression) being the most basic ideas. To all those here who served in the Armed Froces I thank you. But do not forget what you were fighting for, here is a person that is a perfect example of what it means to be an American, a man excercising his basics rights and you punish him for it. Thats not patriotism it is a act of Tyranny.
But do not let me offend you by this post for that would make my comments just as bad.
Amateur_Photog wrote:
The intent there was to illustrate that the current wave of patriotism is to show support for either our troops overseas, our administrations efforts on the "war against terror", or lingering reaction to the terrorist attacks of 9/11. The bottom line here is that America has declared a war against the concept of terrorism. When I ask what your Nationality is, I am trying to determine where your loyalties lie. In general, would the model/photographer say they are for or against the fight against terrorism. This use of the flag suggests the latter. I am not a fan of fence sitters. Take a stand if you believe in something, but don't post an image that suggests one thing then run and hide when people start flaming you for posting an unpopular opinion.
Remember, America is first and foremost...a democracy. Granted it is republican in nature, but the concept of a democracy still holds true. And bottom line in a democracy is: majority rules. What did you think was going to happen? In a country that is still, by and large, supporting the fight against terrorism, this was going to be the natural reaction. That being the case, why have we not heard one iota from the thread originator?...Show more →
So the use of the flag in this picture suggests that the poster is for terrorism?
Ok lets get one thing right. 9/11 never meant Iraq....
Terror is what the people of New Orleans feel because Bush cut more then 30 million dollars of funding on Levys and other coastal support systems. How about the fact that America has fleets of helicopters that are in iraq, not New Orleans..
Democracy is always swayed by the media, which is controlled by rich people (corperations), people who want republican leaders. I mean come on, half of the rural American voters can't even point out America on a map.
i think the thread originator is a "fire and forget" type of person who i think is having some issues with the whole sense of "online community".
btw, on a total aside...should that be "who" or "whom" in my first sentence? i can't figure that one out. part says it's the direct object of "think", but then i think it should go with the nominative case with "is having...". ack someone help me! (and i'll definitely reply )
Ok lets get one thing right. 9/11 never meant Iraq....
Terror is what the people of New Orleans feel because Bush cut more then 30 million dollars of funding on Levys and other coastal support systems. How about the fact that America has fleets of helicopters that are in iraq, not New Orleans..
Democracy is always swayed by the media, which is controlled by rich people (corperations), people who want republican leaders. I mean come on, half of the rural American voters can't even point out America on a map.
Does that say anything about my stand?
And just for your information, I'm American......Show more →
My last post on this thread, and not just for you, but for all who stand ready to criticize so quickly.
I understand probably better than most the intricacies of government. (I earned my PhD in the subject matter and actually taught it to others.) Having said that, I can honestly say I do not care for your attitude of arrogance when encountering opinions that do not concur with your pre-disposed notion of what is right and wrong with our country.
Finally, my question regarding nationalities and loyalties ultimately comes down to this:
For those who are quick to judge and criticize...are you ready and willing to defend the freedom and liberties you exercise so blatantly?
ETA: By the way, it's not "corperation", rather corporation...or do you live in rural America where people cannot identify America on a map.
Well obviously Bush isn't "willing to defend the right" you speak of. . . . HE didn't "defend" it in Viet Nam and he certainly isn't breaking his neck to send his two 'out of work' daughters to "defend" it in Iraq. Just like he wasn't breaking his neck to help low income, 'primarily' black Americans in New Orleans. Government officials blamed people that didn't evacuate! I saw the tape. I guess it didn't enter their minds that some of these people don't have limos and gas guzzling SUVs like they all have . . . . so they COULD evacuate. OR the money.
As far as arrogance . . . read YOUR post. A PhD means little. It sure wouldn't mean anything to those in the Superdome. They can't eat it.
Let's go tell the people suffering in New Orleans about a little photo on the net of the flag draped around a model . . . . . . .see if we can make them cry or get angry at the lack of patriotism. . . . . as Bush's air conditioned helicopter goes rumbling by overhead
Amateur_Photog wrote:
I understand probably better than most the intricacies of government. (I earned my PhD in the subject matter and actually taught it to others.) Having said that, I can honestly say I do not care for your attitude of arrogance when encountering opinions that do not concur with your pre-disposed notion of what is right and wrong with our country.
Finally, my question regarding nationalities and loyalties ultimately comes down to this:
For those who are quick to judge and criticize...are you ready and willing to defend the freedom and liberties you exercise so blatantly?
ETA: By the way, it's not "corperation", rather corporation...or do you live in rural America where people cannot identify America on a map....Show more →
)