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Archive 2003 · Kodak 14n First Impressions

  
 
Peter Burian
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p.3 #1 · Kodak 14n First Impressions


Kodak has specified that future versions of the Firmware will allow us to shot at ISO higher than the current ISO 400, in 13.5 MP capture.

On the other hand, the camera produces optimum image quality at lower ISO levels.

According to the Kodak press releases, the Pro 14n targets studio, portrait, wedding and event (like PR shots, taken with flash) photographers. Not action or news photographers; not "available light" fans; etc. I suppose that Kodak is surprised at the level of interest expressed by photo enthusiasts who expect a "do-everything" camera like a Nikon F5.

Imaging Resource Review: They tested the camera with the very early version of the Kodak Firmware and made that very clear. Today, I am using the third version for some testing. A much higher/more advanced version may be in cameras that people actually buy. And upgrades will be posted on the Kodak Web site for a simple/quick download.

Having said that, I disagree with some of Imaging Resource's perspectives on the Pro 14n, as I detailed in an e-mail to them. And their omission of important points, like the value of the ERI JPEG format.

My own "preview report" of the Pro 14n will include the pros and cons of the camera, and also discuss its target market. I don't see the Pro 14n as an all-purpose, do-everything camera.

Peter Burian




Mar 24, 2003 at 11:53 AM
charlotl
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p.3 #2 · Kodak 14n First Impressions


Peter is definitely correct. The 14n isn't a do-everything camera, but it is a fine camera for the purposes it was designed for. And the dynamic range is measurably increased from previous d-SLRs.

And another thing that I have yet to see in reviews is that the 14n isn't hardwired--you get updates AT NO COST. Imagine that--a camera that keeps up with updated technology without having to make another sizeable investment. Just my 2-cents worth.



Mar 24, 2003 at 10:41 PM
charlotl
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p.3 #3 · Kodak 14n First Impressions


You've probably read about Kodak's "Looks." The camera includes a Product Grayscale look. Here is a snapshot that uses the look in postprocessing. It has a ton of snap and a dynamic range that I haven't seen in d-SLRs to date.


Mar 25, 2003 at 12:11 AM
Radix Lecti
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p.3 #4 · Kodak 14n First Impressions


I am a Canon user but have been following the reviews on this camera just to see what the competition is coming up with. One fact that no one seems to have mentioned in this thread is the start-up time for the camera. The camera takes 10-13 secs to switch on and get ready to take some photos! Doesn't anyone find that to be a bit too slow?! Of all the features of the camera, this one just jumped out at me. I would have imagined something better from a $5000 camera. Even the 2-3 secs with my D-30 bothers the hell out of me!


Mar 25, 2003 at 10:15 AM
Peter Burian
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p.3 #5 · Kodak 14n First Impressions


The most detailled review to date is on Imaging Resource http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS.HTM

And even that one is not conclusive, as they say, because they were only able to use a pre-production camera and an early version of the Firmware. A lot of upgrade activity will occur before consumers start buying the camera ... and continuing after that, with free downloads from kodak.com

Michael Reichmann has updated his Review Part I - and emphasized that it was a very limited test and not conclusive on a lot of issues.

He then published a Part II, based on some more shooting, on a sunny morning. This provides additional info. http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/14n-initial2.shtml But it's still far from being a comprehensive Review.

And Part II is not based on extensive testing. It implies that the Pro 14n produces excellent results only at ISO 80, because they have not yet tested many other ISO levels. There's a big gap between ISO 80 and 400. In my tests, the camera is producing high quality available at ISO 100, 125, 160, 200, 260.

Part II blasts the Pro 14 because it's based on a Nikon N80 and recommends the D100 and Fuji S2 Pro as "a more versatile picture taking tool in a wide variety of situations". Interesting, because both are also based on the Nikon N80. So why are they more versatile??

MSN Photos will publish their Preview in a couple of weeks, based on a production sample and newer firmware. Steves Digicams will probably publish a preview, using a PRE-production sample, and newer Firmware, next week. DP Review is waiting for a production sample of the camera and a Firmware upgrade.

Too early yet to draw final conclusions.

Peter Burian






Mar 25, 2003 at 10:51 AM
mkonik
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p.3 #6 · Kodak 14n First Impressions


The startup time with the latest firmware build, version 4.1.2, is approximately 2 seconds perhaps 3 since I didn't have a stopwatch. This was with the camera off, putting it up to my eye turning the camera on and then depressing the shutter. I can only assume that the 10-13 seconds that someone mentioned was a delay in the version 4.0.2 firmware that posted a "Preproduction Camera" warning during startup on the LCD. In addition there is a new Lens Optimized feature in the 4.1.2 firmware and a menu selection that deals with a hue shift that can occur when using different focal length lenses. As many of us have said before Firmware updates will make a huge difference up until the time the 14n starts to ship to consumers. Although I have not tested it the MM/SD slot is apparently active again with this firmware revision.

Marc



Mar 26, 2003 at 05:06 PM
charlotl
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p.3 #7 · Kodak 14n First Impressions


I can confirm Marc's comments. Startup time is much faster, and the overall camera operation is much refined from earlier versions.


Mar 26, 2003 at 05:34 PM
Peter Burian
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p.3 #8 · Kodak 14n First Impressions


An interesting article on http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=6007-6112

>>The DCS Pro 14n generates enormous RAW format files and is able to write only a maximum of 6 frames in a burst (at least with the initial shipping firmware version of 4.1.2, and without the optional buffer RAM upgrade). Taken together, you have a camera that has a tremendous need for CompactFlash speed. Fortunately, Kodak has designed the 14n to write photos quickly; this camera features one of the fastest write interfaces of any digital SLR currently available.

CompactFlash Write Speed - Kodak DCS Pro 14n

The data in the table below was derived by timing how long it took the Kodak DCS Pro 14n to write out 6 RAW .DCR photos to the card. Timing commenced when the camera's card status light illuminated, and stopped when the light went out. Each test cycle was performed 3 times (if the card's capacity allowed for that) to ensure accurate results.>>



Mar 27, 2003 at 03:41 PM
mkonik
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p.3 #9 · Kodak 14n First Impressions


Well, apparently there can be a 12 second delay in starting up the 14n. If the cameras environmental temperature changes the firmware performs a sensor/noise calibration. Since I have only switched it on indoors everytime I can not really recall encountering this issue. It was not until I read the review on Steves Digicam that this came to light. We will be shooting some studio shots next week indoors and outdoors so maybe this will appear.

Marc



Mar 27, 2003 at 09:10 PM
charlotl
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p.3 #10 · Kodak 14n First Impressions


Went out with the 14n today to catch signs of spring. Caught this image at ISO 250 with a 60mm Nikkor. I did zero color correction and reset the Noise Reduction to zero in Photo Desk. I cloned out a reflection on the plastic flower wrapping a the bottom of the image and sharpened it in Photoshop. Otherwise, this is straight out of the camera.

There are more spring florals and miscellaneous images on: http://www.wordsandphotos.org/Pro14n_Gallery.htm.



Mar 29, 2003 at 02:59 AM
jmcfadden
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p.3 #11 · Kodak 14n First Impressions


Chalotte

I think for its target of studio shooting in a controlled environment that this camera will be a very fine camera, I just wished it were for my but alas I need more than it will be able to offer and that is a shame.......

J



Mar 29, 2003 at 03:54 AM
charlotl
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p.3 #12 · Kodak 14n First Impressions


John, what kinds of shooting do you do most?


Mar 29, 2003 at 03:58 AM
Paul Caldwell
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p.3 #13 · Kodak 14n First Impressions


So much has been made on the images from this camera.

However you have to admit there is huge amount of variance.

Consider the reviews from Steves digicams and the imaging resoucres site.

Steve's images show some really horrible effects of which you saw in the very early versions of the camera. Look for the finer details, you see instead clumping. Look at the palm tree bark, its way too smooth artifical, look at the palm fronds and you again see the same clumping.

On the Imaging resouces site, instead you will see very nice detail, especially the silo shot. However this shot also shows clearly the problems with Kodak's design. Note the color aliasing its all over any of the fine details, (vines on the silo, or the chain link fence). You can also see the clumping effect in the pine needles on the left side of the image. The color aliasing can be taken out with with QM, a tool that should be familar to any Kodak shooter. The clumping can not be removed.

As for Michael's review, its interesting he has almost no clumping, but most of his images wouldn't show as well. However his tree branches shot shots tons of color aliasing, and you might as well admit that, you are going to get it on the 14n. No filter. I think that many had hoped that the 14n could somehow get around the issue since its pixel size is 1u smaller than the others. But if anything it much worse since the camera has so much res.

I still don't fault any of the reviews as really that only point out the obvious.
1. The camera currently only really has good images at ISO 80 to 100 and only then in good light.
2. The camera has a very ueable slow shutter speed range. Images taken even at 1/30 or slower show noise and even at the ISO 80 setting. I also believe that you can't meter past 1/2 a sec, instead of the 2" promised, and the orginal spec of 30".
3. ISO 400 is not usable in low light way too much noise and detail distortion.
4. The camera has a long start up time, IMO way to long at 12 sec the buffer seems to fill up fast, but for me thats not a big issue.
5. If you are a portrait shooter, you might have a big problem with the vertical grip, as any lens is going to get in the way especially a 85mm or any modern Nikon zoom. This should have been seen in the design and they should have added some more room.
6. The battery is good for only about 50 frames if you shoot raw. In today's world not acceptable.

I don't hold anything on the build quality, the N80 body etc. That was there at the onset and you could make a choice on that issue long before now. Again simple facts the N80 is not as good a body as the F5. Does that mean that the 14n won't last, who knows. I know of many people with way over 50K frames on their N80's with no problems. I was for one more than willing to take the camera with the current build quality. I won't take the image quality, mainly there seems to be way to big range in what to expect.

Peter should be able to add to the images soon enough and from what I have seen from Charlotte's site the image seem fine. But I can also point you to Steve's or Imaging resources. I am an outdoor scenic shooter and always looking for the best amount of detail. The 14n should allow this since it has no filter. I long since realized that the 560 660 or 760 IMO are the best 6mp imagers out there for details as you can shoot the camera with no filter. Yes you get color aliasing but that just adds another stetp in the image processing. The 14n should have been the next step in the chain, but there are way too many variances between what people are getting and Kodak should be able to fix this.

I feel also that Kodak may have to draw a line somewhere so if you are a outdoor shooter and can use only 80-100 then you have more than likely an excellent detail camera, and the studio results I have seen all show great promise. But even the latest Kodak images on their site were ISO 80-4 to ISO 50. AGain more than likely for noise.

Folks, really the only way to tell, is get one, shoot it in your environment and see what you get. I have done what with every digital I have owned. Reading reviews helps develop a baseline, but in the end only you will know what the camera will do for you.

Take care,
Paul Caldwell



Mar 29, 2003 at 12:21 PM
Duncan Staples
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p.3 #14 · Kodak 14n First Impressions


Steve:

I agree - while I am not a big Kodak proponent, Doug forgets how bad the first images were from the 1DS - pretty bad. If you feel the need to flame, do it somewhere else....

Duncan



Mar 29, 2003 at 01:29 PM
Peter Burian
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p.3 #15 · Kodak 14n First Impressions


Here is another image.

RAW Capture, ISO 80.

Extremely bright reflections caused lens flare. Nikon AF 18-35mm zoom. f/11; 1/180 sec.

Peter Burian



Edited by Peter Burian on Mar 29, 2003 at 08:22 PM GMT (Reason: Add image & tech info))



Mar 29, 2003 at 01:40 PM
Peter Burian
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p.3 #16 · Kodak 14n First Impressions


OK, I subscribed. An image attached. Made in RAW capture. f/6.7 at 1/60 sec; Nikon 18-35mm zoom and Polarizing filter.

Of course, it has been very significantly downsized and compressed to meet the 150K maximum allowed on this Forum.

Peter Burian

Edited by Peter Burian on Mar 29, 2003 at 08:25 PM GMT (Reason: Add image & tech info )



Mar 29, 2003 at 01:46 PM
charlotl
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p.3 #17 · Kodak 14n First Impressions


Peter, send me the image and I'll post for you.

Paul, you identified most of the areas of concern, but I think you could expand the ISO and shutter ranges that you mentioned slightly. All of the images I posted were taken on an extremely overcast day in Seattle, and most were taken under a grocery store awning that served to dim the light even more. I shot the geberas at ISO 250, f/6.7, 1/125 sec., but they had a rare moment of sunlight from on high (go figure). The others you see on my site were shot more in the range of 1/30 sec., with no ill effects. I didn't use QM, but I am going to buy it to reduce aliasing. However, I'm also finding that mucking around in Photo Desk produces acceptable results in that area. Most of the early shots on my site are at ISO 125, my default ISO. Also, I don't know if Steve adjusted NR settings for his review shots. Often reviewers don't adjust so they can show the raw output, and that's a very useful thing to show.

Talking about startup time--I am an editorial photographer. I shoot everything that is there to shoot. Yesterday, I shot with the 14n just as I do with my D1x--stumbling around finding pictures, etc. Startup time was a non-issue. When I saw a shot, I turned on the camera. By the time I kneeled down or moved around to get the position I wanted, I was able to shoot with no delay.

Battery--I got 71 shots from a charge yesterday (probably could have gotten 5-10 more, but had to go home). I've learned that the review cameras that were sent out (mine included) were heavily used cameras (and batteries). I conditioned a new battery per the manual, and those are my first results. By way of contrast, I get 90 shots from my best-performing D1x battery. So the delta is between 10-15 shots.

Design -- I use the 85mm lens on the camera often, and it isn't the best ergonomics, but it isn't a show-stopper. On build quality, I don't like the plastic CF slot door, but I appreciate carrying around a camera that, at the end of 6 hours of shooting, doesn't feel like a wrist- and hand-torture device. The larger grip is actually a more secure grip, as I learned yesterday in crowds. I would like to have mirror lockup.

Some of the variations you're seeing in review images are a result of how the reviewer presents the pictures. If they don't adjust NR to show default output, you get one kind of image. If they don't adjust NR, but sharpen, then you get another kind of image. If they process the image fully (adjust white point, tweak NR, sharpen), then you get another kind of image.

What I am realizing is that with the new firmware, these images need the most minor tweaks for color, adjusting the NR downward, and then adding some saturation in PS and sharpening. By way of contrast, for my D1x images, I always adjust individual channel curves in Capture, muck with the brightness, etc., then I spend more time in PS trying to unblock shadows. (The dynamic range of the 14n is pretty impressive, by the way.) In terms of darkroom time, both Nikon and Kodak take FOREVER to write TIFF format.

My review of the camera comes out late Monday afternoon on MSN Photos (http://photos.msn.com/editorial/EditorialStart.aspx?article=articlesHome&=ARTICLES). Peter's review in Photo Life will come out soon as well. My review will detail the limitations and the strengths, just as Steve's review did (although we differ in a few areas) and as the Imaging Resource review did.

--PS--Kodak does absolutely the most stunning color-to-black-and-white conversion you've ever seen (grayscale 'look'). It's like getting a great silver halide-quality B/W image with zero effort on your part.



Mar 29, 2003 at 02:52 PM
Peter Burian
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p.3 #18 · Kodak 14n First Impressions


Another one.

Also ISO 100 RAW capture, 18-35mm zoom. Excellent shadow detail, as usual, even in high contrast lighting. No noise etc. even in the shadows.

Peter Burian



Mar 29, 2003 at 03:14 PM
Peter Burian
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p.3 #19 · Kodak 14n First Impressions


Charlotte: Thanks, but I managed to post images after all.

In low ISO images, I set the Noise Reduction to zero (in Photo Desk), or close to it for the best detail, and set sharpness at 7/1/5 (moderately low). Then, I fine tune it in Photoshop, with Unsharp Mask, perhaps setting 100/0.6/2.

I also found no noise at ISO 100 in 1/30 sec. exposures.

Because print magazines have long lead times, my PRO 14n PREVIEW will not be published until late May.

Cheers!

Peter



Mar 29, 2003 at 03:21 PM
bearcat
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p.3 #20 · Kodak 14n First Impressions


Beautiful colors in your pics, Peter. Looking forward to more updates on the 14N.


Mar 29, 2003 at 04:26 PM
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