p.1 #1 · Switching from Cosina to Leica glass - advise needed for 'into the light shooters'
I use a Leica M10-R, and have been having some issues with the Cosina glass I purchased to get me started.
Lenses I currently own: Voigtlander 28mm f2 Ultron Vintage II, and Zeiss 50mm Planar ZM, Voigtlander APO Skopar 90mm f2.8.
The problem: When shooting into the light, as I frequently like to do, I get some nasty multiplication of sunstars. When I don't shoot into the light these lenses are absolutely fantastic - very sharp and have taken lots of nice images that way.
I have tried shooting with and without a filter (using B+W Master series clear on both), but have same issue.
I find this quite annoying. After a bit of research I believe this could be due to Sensor Cover Glass (SCG) reflections. Later Leica glass like the V6 Elmarit 28 2.8, and Summilux 50 1.4 ASPH V1 and later appear to have enhanced coatings to stop this issue.
Can anyone verify whether:
a) SCG reflections could actually be the issue
b) If you are the owner of a later model Leica lens whether you see such issues when stopping down to e.g. f8 and shoot with the sun or very bright light source in the frame at infinity or thereabouts?
p.1 #2 · Switching from Cosina to Leica glass - advise needed for 'into the light shooters'
It's not the lenses. It's because the point light source is behind a 'screen' of multiple 'apertures'.
Sun shining through branches or leaves means that the camera sees multiple points of intense light very close together, but separated by the obstruction. Each of these new point light sources becomes its own source for a sunstar. Put them all together and they get stacked, resulting in the effect you see in your images. The make/model of the lens is irrelevant other than its inherent ability to generate sunstar effects.
Other examples of light sources that can generate this effect are LED fixtures with multiple emitters visible to the viewer/camera, rather than covered by a diffusion screen.
The above is assuming I've understood your problem correctly.
FWIW, I own the ZM 50/2 and the first version of the 50 Lux ASPH. The ZM is great if you want to generate sunstars. The Lux ASPH's aperture shape is such that it minimizes sunstars (which I prefer) but the tradeoff is ninja star type bokeh in the f/2-5-5.6 range. My experience with the various ZM, VM and Leica M lenses I've owned over the years, if you want strong sunstar effects, ZM and/or VM lenses usually generate stronger effects.
p.1 #5 · Switching from Cosina to Leica glass - advise needed for 'into the light shooters'
By multiple ghosts you mean multiple 'streaks' in each spur?
I still stand by my explanation because I have seen this exact same phenomenon in my forest landscape images if the sun is behind leaves/branches.
I don't have an example readily at hand to share, nor the time to dig through my catalog to find some, but I assure you that you're not dealing with a unique equipment fault based on my understanding of the problem.
FWIW, I'm also a Canon shooter and though I don't intentionally shoot for sunstars, I have also seen this from my RF 28-70/2 covering events when an LED light with multiple emitters has been in the background of the image.
p.1 #6 · Switching from Cosina to Leica glass - advise needed for 'into the light shooters'
Well, not too many shots I could find similar where I have the sun being partially occluded. The ones I did find don't show the same kind of ghosting with repeated image of the same light spur.
p.1 #7 · Switching from Cosina to Leica glass - advise needed for 'into the light shooters'
By multiple ghosts you mean multiple 'streaks' in each spur?
Yes. There are multiple streaks parallel to each other. Clearly from the same blade. I've never seen that across multiple systems until now.
Thanks it gives me some relief you've also seen it. I just never have.
I will continue to monitor.
It would be great to hear from some Leica M digital shooters to see if they've seen something like this.
rscheffler wrote:
By multiple ghosts you mean multiple 'streaks' in each spur?
I still stand by my explanation because I have seen this exact same phenomenon in my forest landscape images if the sun is behind leaves/branches.
I don't have an example readily at hand to share, nor the time to dig through my catalog to find some, but I assure you that you're not dealing with a unique equipment fault based on my understanding of the problem.
FWIW, I'm also a Canon shooter and though I don't intentionally shoot for sunstars, I have also seen this from my RF 28-70/2 covering events when an LED light with multiple emitters has been in the background of the image....Show more →
p.1 #8 · Switching from Cosina to Leica glass - advise needed for 'into the light shooters'
OK, I looked and found something from my own collection.
First three are the VM 35/1.7 and the last one is the Leica 28 Lux, all on the Leica M240. First is full image, then a screen shot zoomed in.
The first two are basically the same scene but slightly recomposed, which was enough in the second image to show the streaking effect whereas it wasn't really present in the first image.
The last image with the 28 Lux shows sunstars that appear to be coming from multiple light sources, yet there is only one sun (at least in my plane of existence).
p.1 #11 · Switching from Cosina to Leica glass - advise needed for 'into the light shooters'
robbrown99 wrote:
Ok, yes! So same phenomenon!
Yes. Your other examples didn't show it because the occlusion wasn't significant relative to the size of the sun, which would be especially true for trees on a distant horizon as the sun sets behind them, or partially blocked by just a tree trunk rather than trunk and a bunch of branches and/or leaves.
The object breaking up the single light source needs to be large enough in the image for the effect to happen and to result in more than one new point light source. As I think my first two images illustrate, a slight change in composition can drastically affect whether or not it happens. The challenge with Leica M, if one is primarily using the optical viewfinder, is that it's not a TTL view, so you'll never be quite sure of what you're going to get until you review the images, or shoot in live view.
p.1 #12 · Switching from Cosina to Leica glass - advise needed for 'into the light shooters'
This is exactly correct. As someone who shoots a ton of images against the light, it happens all the time, across every system. It is usually a little less noticeable with longer focal lengths.
You can see it on live view by looking at the rear screen, but to truly fine tune the resulting sunstar, you really need to use the EVF in the magnified view. A movement of just an inch can make all the difference.
rscheffler wrote:
Yes. Your other examples didn't show it because the occlusion wasn't significant relative to the size of the sun, which would be especially true for trees on a distant horizon as the sun sets behind them, or partially blocked by just a tree trunk rather than trunk and a bunch of branches and/or leaves.
The object breaking up the single light source needs to be large enough in the image for the effect to happen and to result in more than one new point light source. As I think my first two images illustrate, a slight change in composition can drastically affect whether or not it happens. The challenge with Leica M, if one is primarily using the optical viewfinder, is that it's not a TTL view, so you'll never be quite sure of what you're going to get until you review the images, or shoot in live view....Show more →
