I'll be 57 this year and have been shooting for 50 years. My first camera was a Vivitar XV10 that took K mount lenses. Around age 10 or so I got a Canon A1 (all black - I thought I was the bomb!) and shot that until 1988 when I got my first autofocus camera - a Nikon n8008. I also shot Rollei TLR and Hassy and even 4x5. I shot Nikon until I got fed up with the original z7 and rented an a9ii and the "new" 2-6 for an owl trip up north. I came home and announced to all my Nikon friends that it was all for sale. It was late 2019. Since then I've been shooting nothing but Sony bodies (a9 (gone now), a1, a1ii, a7r4 (gone now) &a7r5). I also picked up a used a7iii for astro.
I have never gone on the Canon board and I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've been on the Nikon board. However, I have never commented on those boards. I gave up Nikon 6+ years ago. What could I possibly contribute to that forum?
I can't for the life of me figure out why people who have abandoned Sony (not those who shoot 2 platforms) but those who have completely made the switch, come on the Sony board and complain about Sony or the offerings. If I had that kind of time, I'd be out shooting more.
Ha Ha. When I can't shoot, like right now while I sit in my office, at my desk listening to hold muzak, I come on this forum to pass the time and hopefully learn something. Trust me, when I can shoot, I do. Lately I'm seeing so many that have left Sony commenting on their new platform and why it is so much better. All brands are good now. Some are better than others in certain aspects, but if I miss the shot now I know it's my fault.
Maybe they are just trying to justify the change in their own minds
ps09 wrote:
I can't for the life of me figure out why people who have abandoned Sony (not those who shoot 2 platforms) but those who have completely made the switch, come on the Sony board and complain about Sony or the offerings. If I had that kind of time, I'd be out shooting more.
That isn’t just a Sony thing. As you say, you don’t frequent the other boards, so you probably aren’t aware of the folks who “complain about [the other brands] or the offerings.”
It is useful to know about the features and the pluses and minuses of other brands, but I share your feeling about those who feel compelled to trash that brand(s) that they (currently at least) don’t use.
I think there are a few things gong on:
1. Some may be congratulating themselves on their decision, or perhaps more accurately reassuring themselves that they made a good choice.
2. There can be a kind of sports fan mentality at times, where it is “my team no mater what!” It is a bit like those folks who get interviewed before a big game saying stuff like, “We’re going to stomp them! They don’t stand a chance!” ;-)
3. Some just like to stir the pot. We’ve got a few posters on FM who seem to have a bad word for every brand. :-)
At the same time, it isn’t wrong for people to post in forums for brands they don’t use. I’m an example. I don’t own any Sony gear — I’m here to become acquainted with the brand since I am planning to move to Sony and I want to learn more about the brand and the gear.
There are lots of reasons for switching brands, but some of the folks who do it frequently are trying to scratch a different itch than actual photography — it may be more about the thrill of buying new stuff, combined with the eventually diminution of that thrill after the purchase. (We’ve got a few FM’ers who kind of obviously fit into that category, buying tons of stuff from every brand and then eventually bad-mouthing all of it except for their current love.)
To some extend it just comes with the territory, and you can mostly ignore it. ;-)
In the end, I often think of something I heard/read once that I’ll paraphrase: “Of all the important decisions you’ll make as a photograher, “Canon, Sony, Nikon, or Fujifilm?” is just about the least important.”
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chez wrote:
Well here you are complaining about the complainers. Go out and shoot more!!!
And here you are, complaining about the people who complain about the complainers… ;-)
Because I’m generous and helpful, I’ll pre-write your reply for you: Feel free to copy and paste: “And here you are, complaining about the the people who complain about the complainers complaining about complainers.” ;-)
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About that “stuck in the office” thing…
I realized a few years back that most of the posts here come on weekdays during work hours. ;-)
This is exactly what we are doing too. When stuck in the office and can't shoot we like to complain, praise and discuss our toys
ps09 wrote:
Ha Ha. When I can't shoot, like right now while I sit in my office, at my desk listening to hold muzak, I come on this forum to pass the time and hopefully learn something. Trust me, when I can shoot, I do. Lately I'm seeing so many that have left Sony commenting on their new platform and why it is so much better. All brands are good now. Some are better than others in certain aspects, but if I miss the shot now I know it's my fault.
Maybe they are just trying to justify the change in their own minds
No complaints here---I am a dual system user (Sony and Canon). In 2026, there's no difference in IQ, skin tones and etc.......so keep on taking pictures!!
I don't spend any time on the other boards. I don't have too. All my friends that shoot other brands give me enough info about why what they are shooting is better. All of my Nikon friends marvel at the 300 2.8 and it's ability to take both tc's so well. They keep waiting. I would never think of going on the Nikon forum and talking about the Sony lens.
The issue is, each manufacturer has something it does better in a given area than something else. This includes the Fuji X. Hence in at least one area, the grass is going to be greener with another system. Which in turn leads to bitching about what your current model doesn’t have or do. Which in turn is why some folks have and use multiple systems; and perhaps somewhat ironically, this same group seems to have significantly fewer bitchers than the dedicated brand group.
I am in the one system camp and live with the specific warts. The perfect camera doesn’t exist, but as a guy who used to own and shoot digital at any given point in time with singles or multiples of Canon, Leica, Nikon, Panasonic, Phase, Fuji GF or Fuji X, I am comfortable stating that the *current* Sony line tics more of my need boxes than any of those other single lines do. This is especially true now with the A7R6 — it’s the closest thing to a “perfect” camera for my needs as I have ever owned. FWIW
Jack Flesher wrote:
The issue is, each manufacturer has something it does better in a given area than something else. This includes the Fuji X. Hence in at least one area, the grass is going to be greener with another system. Which in turn leads to bitching about what your current model doesn’t have or do. Which in turn is why some folks have and use multiple systems; and perhaps somewhat ironically, this same group seems to have significantly fewer bitchers than the dedicated brand group.
gdanmitchell wrote: Jack Flesher wroteThe issue is, each manufacturer has something it does better in a given area than something else. This includes the Fuji X. Hence in at least one area, the grass is going to be greener with another system. Which in turn leads to bitching about what your current model doesn’t have or do. Which in turn is why some folks have and use multiple systems; and perhaps somewhat ironically, this same group seems to have significantly fewer bitchers than the dedicated brand group.Amen.
(Emphasis added in the quote.)
I was actually including you when I wrote that. But my second paragraph is the more relevant 😎
Jack Flesher wrote: gdanmitchell wroteJack Flesher wroteThe issue is, each manufacturer has something it does better in a given area than something else. This includes the Fuji X. Hence in at least one area, the grass is going to be greener with another system. Which in turn leads to bitching about what your current model doesn’t have or do. Which in turn is why some folks have and use multiple systems; and perhaps somewhat ironically, this same group seems to have significantly fewer bitchers than the dedicated brand group.Amen.
(Emphasis added in the quote.)I was actually including you when I wrote that. But my second paragraph is the more relevant 😎
While I currently still continue to use two systems, I can agree that your current (new) one-system choice makes a lot of sense.
I also agree strongly that no system is perfect in every way, and that other systems will have pluses that any given system doesn’t have. There’s a whole lot of “grass is greener on the other side of the fence” stuff going on among photographers. (And, well, buyers of a whole lot of other things, too.)
Better, I think, to settle on one (OK, or maybe two) choices, get to knew them quite well, optimize what you can do with them, and then concentrate on the doing rather than on looking for weaknesses.
I think we’re on roughly the same page here — though I probably tend to stick to a brand choice longer than you. (Maybe?)
Dan
(This makes me extra careful when I do consider switching to a different brand or adding a second one. You may have noticed that even though I have decided to move to the Sony A7r6 I still am shooting the Canon 5DsR. The camera choice is relatively easy — I’ll get the A7r6. But knowing that it is really more about the lenses (I’ll keep them even when/if I upgrade to a later model of Sony body) I tend to consider those choices very carefully before making my move.)
gdanmitchell wrote: Jack Flesher wrotegdanmitchell wroteJack Flesher wroteThe issue is, each manufacturer has something it does better in a given area than something else. This includes the Fuji X. Hence in at least one area, the grass is going to be greener with another system. Which in turn leads to bitching about what your current model doesn’t have or do. Which in turn is why some folks have and use multiple systems; and perhaps somewhat ironically, this same group seems to have significantly fewer bitchers than the dedicated brand group.Amen.
(Emphasis added in the quote.)I was actually including you when I wrote that. But my second paragraph is the more relevant 😎While I currently still continue to use two systems, I can agree that your current (new) one-system choice makes a lot of sense.
I also agree strongly that no system is perfect in every way, and that other systems will have pluses that any given system doesn’t have. There’s a whole lot of “grass is greener on the other side of the fence” stuff going on among photographers. (And, well, buyers of a whole lot of other things, too.)
Better, I think, to settle on one (OK, or maybe two) choices, get to knew them quite well, optimize what you can do with them, and then concentrate on the doing rather than on looking for weaknesses.
I think we’re on roughly the same page here — though I probably tend to stick to a brand choice longer than you. (Maybe?)
Dan
(This makes me extra careful when I do consider switching to a different brand or adding a second one. You may have noticed that even though I have decided to move to the Sony A7r6 I still am shooting the Canon 5DsR. The camera choice is relatively easy — I’ll get the A7r6. But knowing that it is really more about the lenses (I’ll keep them even when/if I upgrade to a later model of Sony body) I tend to consider those choices very carefully before making my move.)...Show more →
Yes, we agree, and yes I probably tend to be more willing to swap brands and experiment than many. That said, I will add a few more points re my current choice.
First is lens/system cross-compatibility, which I suspect you understand quite well so not much more needs to be said.
Size of bodies on Sony is generally smaller. The full-frame A7C/ii/R isn’t any bigger in the bag or hand than my Fuji XT5 was, and arguably a bit smaller than the XH2 I favored, even with the Houge grip baseplate on the Sony. Moreover, even the A7R6 isn’t feeling much bigger than I recollect my XH2 did — and I did/do have baseplates on both. Here I am experimenting this weekend on a getaway trip with my wife as to how the A7R6 and 20-70 may serve for travel. I’ve already confirmed the A7C2 with 20-70 is a near ideal travel cam.
Files. AWB. Here I think Nikon had the AWB edge, but Sony is better than Fuji and frankly pretty close to Nikon especially with the A7R6, which seems a tad better than the A7C2. AE. I find all excellent and nearly equal. Detail. All are excellent, but the A7R6 is in a new league and special. To my eyes better than anything I got before, including from my GFX 100s and its best glass. Something is special about this stacked sensor. Noise. Hands down, the A7C2 is one of the cleanest noise sensors I’ve ever used, period. The A7R6 seems about the same as the Fuji 40, while the Z9 was perhaps better, call it a stop or so. But now with AI NR being so good, this becomes a lesser issue.
AF. Hands down Sony eats Fuji’s lunch. And though I’d have to have my Z9 back to compare them more directly, my gut memory says Sony is better, meaning stickier and faster.
Long way around to my point: if I review all the above intellectually, I come away wondering if I need anything other than an A7R6 — except a second one for lens swap convenience? I will know more about this after this weekend’s experiment with it…
Jack Flesher wrote:
The issue is, each manufacturer has something it does better in a given area than something else. This includes the Fuji X. Hence in at least one area, the grass is going to be greener with another system. Which in turn leads to bitching about what your current model doesn’t have or do. Which in turn is why some folks have and use multiple systems; and perhaps somewhat ironically, this same group seems to have significantly fewer bitchers than the dedicated brand group.
I am in the one system camp and live with the specific warts. The perfect camera doesn’t exist, but as a guy who used to own and shoot digital at any given point in time with singles or multiples of Canon, Leica, Nikon, Panasonic, Phase, Fuji GF or Fuji X, I am comfortable stating that the *current* Sony line tics more of my need boxes than any of those other single lines do. This is especially true now with the A7R6 — it’s the closest thing to a “perfect” camera for my needs as I have ever owned. FWIW...Show more →
For me the perfect camera is my A7V. I found this out when it passed the no rolling shutter effects (i.e. oblong balls and elongated racquets) using ES for tennis. That was the last hurdle---apart from superb white balance system, outstanding AF and etc. Having said that---I think I am still a 'lens guy'. Thus I still shoot with my Canon system mainly because of the other half of fast 'grand slam' portrait lenses i.e. the EF 50/1.2 L and the EF 85/1.2 LII. The other half of the slam i.e. Viltrox 35/1.2 and Sony 135GM is with Sony. It's like Carlos Alcaraz winning the AO and the French while Jannick Sinner wins Wimbledon and US Open :-)
jojib wrote: Jack Flesher wroteThe issue is, each manufacturer has something it does better in a given area than something else. This includes the Fuji X. Hence in at least one area, the grass is going to be greener with another system. Which in turn leads to bitching about what your current model doesn’t have or do. Which in turn is why some folks have and use multiple systems; and perhaps somewhat ironically, this same group seems to have significantly fewer bitchers than the dedicated brand group.
I am in the one system camp and live with the specific warts. The perfect camera doesn’t exist, but as a guy who used to own and shoot digital at any given point in time with singles or multiples of Canon, Leica, Nikon, Panasonic, Phase, Fuji GF or Fuji X, I am comfortable stating that the *current* Sony line tics more of my need boxes than any of those other single lines do. This is especially true now with the A7R6 — it’s the closest thing to a “perfect” camera for my needs as I have ever owned. FWIWFor me the perfect camera is my A7V. I found this out when it passed the no rolling shutter effects (i.e. oblong balls and elongated racquets) using ES for tennis. That was the last hurdle---apart from superb white balance system, outstanding AF and etc. Having said that---I think I am still a 'lens guy'. Thus I still shoot with my Canon system mainly because of the other half of fast 'grand slam' portrait lenses i.e. the EF 50/1.2 L and the EF 85/1.2 LII. The other half of the slam i.e. Viltrox 35/1.2 and Sony 135GM is with Sony. It's like Carlos Alcaraz winning the AO and the French while Jannick Sinner wins Wimbledon and US Open :-) ...Show more →
This is a gear forum and it is the Internet. Small features, insignificant to many, suddenly become the most important feature of a camera. A recent example would be the pages of bird images on the A7Rvi thread, where the same thing is proven time and time again. You would think that birding was the only yardstick by which this camera is judged, or look at the complaints regarding the A7Rvi’s 1/8000 electronic shutter top speed. This is a total no-go for some users and a non-issue for many. The only thing that any of us can do about this is to avoid such discussions. For you, this means ignoring threads where people trash a product for reasons unrelated to your needs and the way you use a camera.
gdanmitchell wrote:
I think there are a few things gong on:
1. Some may be congratulating themselves on their decision, or perhaps more accurately reassuring themselves that they made a good choice.
You are writing it too nicely. Rather it's to justify to themselves that they didn't make wrong choices.
If someone is sure that he made the right choice, why would he care others making wrong calls. So the amount of trashing of other brands (especially unprovoked) is mostly a contrarian indicator.
Jack Flesher wrote:
To my eyes better than anything I got before, including from my GFX 100s and its best glass.
That’s an interesting comment. To be followed by a (probably too long) reply. ;-
As slow as I am about a move from Canon to Sony, I’ve been looking at the miniMF world without jumping in for even longer. I think there’s a place for it, and some of my photography aligns quite well with the larger format’s strengths… but some of its weaknesses have continued to give me pause in the context of my own photography.
I came “that close” several times to going there, but my inner voice (along with a few fellow photographer voices, including some who use miniMF) urged caution.
One friend of mine is a pretty highly regarded landscape photographer. (For those who keep track of such things, he’s a regular at The Ansel Adams Gallery and has been for decades, since shortly after the time that he worked with Ansel.) He moved to the miniMF format some years back (from LF film) and eventually settled on the GFX system, which he has said many very positive things about.
We’ve had some discussions about this and my interest in the format. He knows my photography pretty well so I was surprised and paid attention when he said, more or less, “Dan, miniMF may well not fit the way you photograph as well as full frame does.”
Sticking with the Ansel Adams Gallery theme, I’m fortunate to know and sometimes photograph with several of the other regulars there. (In fact, now that I think of it, about a half dozen of them come to mind.) I also realized that none of these others (with the later exception of one, for portions of her work) use the larger format — they all work primarily with full frame digital these days, even those whose background was in LF film. (These days most, if not all of them, are using Sony.)
and their prints are utterly beautiful, even at very large sizes.
There’s still a part of me that is intrigued by miniMF and the GFX system, but I think I’ve finally let that go. While I think they are right for a small group of photographers working in some very specific ways, I think that the great majority of us are going to be able to produce extremely good quality from cameras like the current Sony models or their equivalents from other manufacturers.
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tctmp wrote: gdanmitchell wroteI think there are a few things gong on:
1. Some may be congratulating themselves on their decision, or perhaps more accurately reassuring themselves that they made a good choice.You are writing it too nicely..
Nothing wrong with occasionally being nice while making a point. ;-)