I'm not a street photographer but when my daughter had her apartment smack dab downtown Los Angeles a couple blocks from the Art District I used to love to wander in the morning and grab shots. I've always been reluctant to share such shots because a part of me thinks I'm simply photographing someone else's work. Just curious how the real street photographers look at these types of subjects. All comments or critiques welcome.
Gary
FWIW, I'm not a "street" shooter. In other senses, we'll (some anyways) will take images of existing civic art, famous statues, fountains, etc. Spitballing, perhaps in that way, they might be harder to get as a record shot as they are more incorporated into their settings/contexts? Or deserving of incorporating their context, passers by other environmental elements. They aren't usually in the middle of a "square" or an isolated freestanding subject?
Not a street photographer here, by any measure. Think of it this way.... by photographing someone else' work, you are recognizing and promoting the work of another artist. That's a good enough reason for me to photograph murals.
If people are going to deface property, they might as well do a good job of it. There's some real works of art out there, but at some level, it pains me to see the canvas they chose.
I LOVE MURALS!!!!!!
1 of my most favorite of subjects to photograph!
Anyplace, anywhere......Murals can take an ugly wall and make it a "piece of art". Here is my "theory"..
I photograph them to preserve ephemeral street art before it fades or gets painted over, to document cultural and political history, and to use vibrant urban backdrops for dynamic portrait and street compositions.
Douter, aka Douglas, and Sreedhar have it correct IMHO!
I capture murals to preserve transient public art, frame dynamic urban backdrops, and merge two creative mediums into a single visual story.
Yes it IS someone else's work but most photography, imho, is "someone elses work".
The town near me has been around since the 1700's. It is loaded with history that is preserved in many wall murals. Murals are all over the small town.
I am, or WAS, a musician, and my area is filled with past and present musical talent! Patsy Cline, Scott Ambrose and MANY more.....They have been preserved in art!
Your murals are fantastic Gary!
Hope my reasoning is making sense to you and others!
Dan
I will relate a story to you and readers about "defacing" public/private spaces, art, whatever..
A teenager was caught painting graffiti on city buildings.
The judge sentence him to paint murals on city walls, concrete underpasses.. to brighten the neighborhoods.
The local govt supplied the materials. All he had to do is paint.
Through my profession I have been involved in a number of commissioned public art works and installations. Murals, public art, graffiti and so forth that exist within the public realm of the city are generally considered public and the artist may not limit a work's reinterpretation through other media such as photography. Commissioned works do have some copyright limitations, however, it largely centers on how you use someone else's original work for profit, where that original work physically exists, and does it have an attribution that is readily apparent.
The images you share are quite safe from breaching copyright protections and appear ethical in your intent. For starters, your choice of using B&W significantly removes the image from being a reproduction. You are not presenting the work devoid of context which signifies that you are not claiming authorship of the mural itself and that the mural is the work of another. In the way you've composed the images any attribution should be visible again distancing you from any claims of authorship.
We go through a fairly lengthy contracting process for public art which identifies artists protections and allowable reproduction. Based on those standards, your work doesn't breach any rules. If you are concerned, and do happen to know any of the artists' names, you might want to add them to the title or embed them in the metadata.
Craig Gillette wrote:
FWIW, I'm not a "street" shooter. In other senses, we'll (some anyways) will take images of existing civic art, famous statues, fountains, etc. Spitballing, perhaps in that way, they might be harder to get as a record shot as they are more incorporated into their settings/contexts? Or deserving of incorporating their context, passers by other environmental elements. They aren't usually in the middle of a "square" or an isolated freestanding subject?
I appreciate your response Craig but I've read it at least four times and I'm struggling to understand your POV
gregfountain wrote:
If people are going to deface property, they might as well do a good job of it. There's some real works of art out there, but at some level, it pains me to see the canvas they chose.
Danpbphoto wrote:
I LOVE MURALS!!!!!!
1 of my most favorite of subjects to photograph!
Anyplace, anywhere......Murals can take an ugly wall and make it a "piece of art". Here is my "theory"..
I photograph them to preserve ephemeral street art before it fades or gets painted over, to document cultural and political history, and to use vibrant urban backdrops for dynamic portrait and street compositions.
Douter, aka Douglas, and Sreedhar have it correct IMHO!
I capture murals to preserve transient public art, frame dynamic urban backdrops, and merge two creative mediums into a single visual story.
Yes it IS someone else's work but most photography, imho, is "someone elses work".
The town near me has been around since the 1700's. It is loaded with history that is preserved in many wall murals. Murals are all over the small town.
I am, or WAS, a musician, and my area is filled with past and present musical talent! Patsy Cline, Scott Ambrose and MANY more.....They have been preserved in art!
Your murals are fantastic Gary!
Hope my reasoning is making sense to you and others!
Dan
I will relate a story to you and readers about "defacing" public/private spaces, art, whatever..
A teenager was caught painting graffiti on city buildings.
The judge sentence him to paint murals on city walls, concrete underpasses.. to brighten the neighborhoods.
The local govt supplied the materials. All he had to do is paint.
He did and is NOW a famous, well paid muralist!
PS in fact look at my post on "C,S,&A" Forum......Show more →
Kevner wrote:
Through my profession I have been involved in a number of commissioned public art works and installations. Murals, public art, graffiti and so forth that exist within the public realm of the city are generally considered public and the artist may not limit a work's reinterpretation through other media such as photography. Commissioned works do have some copyright limitations, however, it largely centers on how you use someone else's original work for profit, where that original work physically exists, and does it have an attribution that is readily apparent.
The images you share are quite safe from breaching copyright protections and appear ethical in your intent. For starters, your choice of using B&W significantly removes the image from being a reproduction. You are not presenting the work devoid of context which signifies that you are not claiming authorship of the mural itself and that the mural is the work of another. In the way you've composed the images any attribution should be visible again distancing you from any claims of authorship.
We go through a fairly lengthy contracting process for public art which identifies artists protections and allowable reproduction. Based on those standards, your work doesn't breach any rules. If you are concerned, and do happen to know any of the artists' names, you might want to add them to the title or embed them in the metadata....Show more →
Very interesting. I've never thought about this along those terms. Thank you for sharing !
sum1sgrampa wrote: Craig Gillette wroteFWIW, I'm not a "street" shooter. In other senses, we'll (some anyways) will take images of existing civic art, famous statues, fountains, etc. Spitballing, perhaps in that way, they might be harder to get as a record shot as they are more incorporated into their settings/contexts? Or deserving of incorporating their context, passers by other environmental elements. They aren't usually in the middle of a "square" or an isolated freestanding subject?I appreciate your response Craig but I've read it at least four times and I'm struggling to understand your POV
Ok. I'll expand some. Is there a general consensus? Maybe? I find them fascinating, usually a level of artistic ability I don't have. More contention than consensus? I think just a spread of different positions.
Initially on the "reluctant to share such shots because a part of me thinks I'm simply photographing someone else's work." Can we/should we share? I don't see a problem of sharing images of the murals. It caught your attention, it presents your "place" or a place you visit. I wouldn't take, "Here is what I see on my walks in Los Angeles." all that differently from "We were in Florence and here's a David in Piazzale Michelangelo." as "appropriate" subjects. They are out there to be seen in places where easily seen and shared. Although more traditional public place art might be placed in ways that's easier to see and photograph? And there will be high minded artists who pooh-pooh our pedestrian efforts? but "they" also tell us all the pictures have been taken, nothing new in Yosemite, etc., etc.
I appreciate the artistic skill and ability that goes into these murals. They aren't starting with a "clean canvas." Does it need a passerby to make it "street?" Does that take it from subject to context? Does my photo "appropriate" their art? Does the mural "appropriate" someone's wall? In a nearby city, they have an area with a lot of murals, they have a program, maybe even contest, to add to the murals, make it a part or interest for the district? Does officialness/permission change things? Perhaps a range of discussion.
Take them and share them? Don't have any problems there. This isn't Disney behind the berm or interior walls.
Craig Gillette wrote: sum1sgrampa wroteCraig Gillette wroteFWIW, I'm not a "street" shooter. In other senses, we'll (some anyways) will take images of existing civic art, famous statues, fountains, etc. Spitballing, perhaps in that way, they might be harder to get as a record shot as they are more incorporated into their settings/contexts? Or deserving of incorporating their context, passers by other environmental elements. They aren't usually in the middle of a "square" or an isolated freestanding subject?I appreciate your response Craig but I've read it at least four times and I'm struggling to understand your POV Ok. I'll expand some. Is there a general consensus? Maybe? I find them fascinating, usually a level of artistic ability I don't have. More contention than consensus? I think just a spread of different positions.
Initially on the "reluctant to share such shots because a part of me thinks I'm simply photographing someone else's work." Can we/should we share? I don't see a problem of sharing images of the murals. It caught your attention, it presents your "place" or a place you visit. I wouldn't take, "Here is what I see on my walks in Los Angeles." all that differently from "We were in Florence and here's a David in Piazzale Michelangelo." as "appropriate" subjects. They are out there to be seen in places where easily seen and shared. Although more traditional public place art might be placed in ways that's easier to see and photograph? And there will be high minded artists who pooh-pooh our pedestrian efforts? but "they" also tell us all the pictures have been taken, nothing new in Yosemite, etc., etc.
I appreciate the artistic skill and ability that goes into these murals. They aren't starting with a "clean canvas." Does it need a passerby to make it "street?" Does that take it from subject to context? Does my photo "appropriate" their art? Does the mural "appropriate" someone's wall? In a nearby city, they have an area with a lot of murals, they have a program, maybe even contest, to add to the murals, make it a part or interest for the district? Does officialness/permission change things? Perhaps a range of discussion.
Take them and share them? Don't have any problems there. This isn't Disney behind the berm or interior walls....Show more →
Thanks very much for taking the time to clarify. You said; " Does the mural appropriate someone's wall ?" I like that. I guess it's all relative. It's out there in public so not sure why I'm even thinking about it In the future I may try to make a point of including the artist signature whenever I'm able.