SlowDriver wrote:
The non-APO 35m and 50mm (and rebadged Sigma zooms) were more about cost than about size and weight I feel, i.e. the ability to offer bundles at a price point below $10K.
The Leica lenses are typically also 100g heavier than the original lenses.
The new Summilux 50mm is in my opinion truly the first serious step in reducing lens size and weight.
About the bodies, the SL3 might be lighter than the SL2, but it is still the same weight as the original SL (albeit with IBIS) and e.g 180g heavier than the Canon EOS R5 Mk II.
I don't see much need anymore for a SL4-s, so perhaps one day we instead get something like a Leica version of the S9 with EVF and with a relatively high MP count. ...Show more →
Nevertheless, the facts are the newer Leica non-APO SL 35 and 50 primes are smaller and lighter than the original Leica APO 35 and 50 primes. The newer non-APO zooms are also smaller, lighter ( by some margin) and faster as well compared to the original SL APO zooms( albeit different type of zoom andFLs) I hadn't considered the original SL camera but again the new SL3 cameras are slightly smaller and lighter than the previous SL2 cameras.
And yes, the new Auto Focusing SL Summilux-50 is dramatically smaller than the original SL Summilux-50. I fully expect to see a similarly sized SL Summilux-35 at some point.
For those complaining about the size of the Leica SL system on the forums for the last 11 years, clearly Leica heard the complaints and making efforts to offer a smaller/lighter SL system overall.
*Personally, I hope this doesn't mean the end of the peerless Leica SL APO prime line. But the writing on the wall...IDK
I think the point about the Q series selling so well is that it is first and foremost a "lifestyle" camera. Hasselblad is pushing the X series in this direction as well. Simple luxury items that fit into your lifestyle first and make great photographs secondarily. I think they'll pivot towards making the SL series closer to a lifestyle camera rather than the professional camera that they've marketed it as previously. Hence the smaller/lighter lenses and eventually bodies will follow.
Arka wrote:
Interesting. I initially found the surprising until I realized that the Q3, an expensive as it is ($7000+!!!), costs far less than the current M and includes a lens. And given the increasing emphasis among many consumers on convenience and one-size-fits-all capability in a daily use or travel camera, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the Q is outselling the more niche (and much more expensive) M line.
I always find it fascinating whenever we get a peek at official sales data with any of these camera companies. Apparently the Q continues it tops sales trajectory! Personally, I think a Q35 might sell well too.
My experience with Leica SL is even the "lighter" lenses are still quite heavy compared to Panasonic and Sigma lenses. The new 50mm f1.4 is light for Leica but not light overall. For them to really change the dynamic, they'd probably need to come out with a rangefinder style body + a set of Summarit or Elmarit type small lenses that balance well on that body.
I originally jumped into the SL3-S thinking I'd use it with a set of APO primes and the 28-70mm (which weighs similar to the 50mm f1.4 SL). I concluded that kit was still too bulky and I might as well as go all-in and ended up with the 24-90mm and recently the 50mm f1.4 SL original version. I have a M-camera set so that helps that I can just use the SL kit for when I don't mind the weight.
For when I want to use the SL3-S camera in a lightweight manner, I think the best option is actually something like the Panasonic 20-60mm which balances really well and weighs next to nothing and a small prime like the Sigma 45mm or Panasonic 40mm. I don't know how the image quality holds up on a 44mp or 61mp sensor but the Panasonic 20-60mm renders nicely on the SL3-S and my past experiences with the Sigma 45mm on Sony is that it was a nice character lens.
M has definitely increased in price a fair amount in the last 10 years, certainly more than inflation, putting it further out of reach. At one point it was attainable for me and not necessarily more expensive than the top-end mainstream options. But now it's like nearly 2x more for an M11. And some of the Leica lenses I bought ~10 years ago, are now in Canikony super-tele price ranges. While I love the M system, realistically, it no longer brings much benefit to what I photograph. Certainly not technical advantages. But where I think the M system has challenges beyond attainability, is that it's basically competing with itself. There is so much used M product on the market, and at considerably lower prices than new. Plus at least lens alternatives from Voigtlander and others like LLL, Thypoch, etc. It feels like M has become even more of a niche of a niche. And when LLL or another company out of China releases an M digital camera 'replica'... The higher Leica pushes prices, the more likely I see this happening. ...Show more →
Leica prices and their price strategy reminds me of that iconic catchphrase "To boldly go where no man has gone before"...year after year and it seems to be working out well for them...so far.
tzhang4284 wrote:
My experience with Leica SL is even the "lighter" lenses are still quite heavy compared to Panasonic and Sigma lenses. The new 50mm f1.4 is light for Leica but not light overall. For them to really change the dynamic, they'd probably need to come out with a rangefinder style body + a set of Summarit or Elmarit type small lenses that balance well on that body.
I originally jumped into the SL3-S thinking I'd use it with a set of APO primes and the 28-70mm (which weighs similar to the 50mm f1.4 SL). I concluded that kit was still too bulky and I might as well as go all-in and ended up with the 24-90mm and recently the 50mm f1.4 SL original version. I have a M-camera set so that helps that I can just use the SL kit for when I don't mind the weight.
For when I want to use the SL3-S camera in a lightweight manner, I think the best option is actually something like the Panasonic 20-60mm which balances really well and weighs next to nothing and a small prime like the Sigma 45mm or Panasonic 40mm. I don't know how the image quality holds up on a 44mp or 61mp sensor but the Panasonic 20-60mm renders nicely on the SL3-S and my past experiences with the Sigma 45mm on Sony is that it was a nice character lens....Show more →
Yes, the new and used markets offer an abundance of small and very small kits already for some years now to include a few very small L-Mount cameras ( Sigma). Clearly small EDC kits based upon the many options available across multiple brands continue to sell well.I do agree with the idea that a Leica version of the Auto Focusing very small FF Panasonic S9 could be an interesting product offering as I really don't want all the SL cameras to get too much smaller.
Leica Q line is popular because it is brand adjacent to the M series in such a way that they somehow seem like a good value. I like my Q2 but don't personally find it any better that my old Rx1RII..just a different focal length.
It will be interesting to see if Leica can continue to differentiate themselves in such a way that rationalizes their pricing across all of their product lines as they start to prioritize the SL system and EV1, as they'll be competing more closely with the likes of Canon/Nikon/Sony...even(especially?) Panasonic. Imagine if the S9II comes with an EVF and incorporates MF confirmation.
