p.2 #2 · Does a [street] photographers background matter? > Phil Penman
Ne314satel wrote:
You know, I was born in a country where there was never any discrimination based on skin color or gender. What you're saying is complete bullshit. Just because a black man from Africa wins a marathon doesn't mean we need a quota for white men, and vice versa. If your photos sell, you're doing great. If not, there's no point in changing your gender or skin color.
You admitted you don't have the cultural capital to discuss this, so you should probably stop commenting on matters of racial equity.
Back on topic: Most of fine art is myth making. I don't mind self serious photographers. It's not my bag, but I don't find those types nearly as gross as paparazzi.
p.2 #7 · Does a [street] photographers background matter? > Phil Penman
RomanMF wrote:
You admitted you don't have the cultural capital to discuss this, so you should probably stop commenting on matters of racial equity.
Total B.S.. We all have a race, and we all have lives and experiences, so we all have the cultural capital to discuss the topic. I would say you have no right to judge him based on race which you have clearly done. He has just as much right to have opinions on equity as anyone else on the planet. So sad and so inappropriate. How does a discussion on the merits of an artists work turn into a race issue. I guess just like it did here unfortunately.
Coincidently I will be having dinner with the Chief Equity and Diversity Officer of one of the largest companies in the World in about an hour. I will be sure to get her thoughts on your comments. It should be interesting. One question I will have is "What the hell is cultural capital, and where do you earn it?'
p.2 #9 · Does a [street] photographers background matter? > Phil Penman
RomanMF wrote:
You admitted you don't have the cultural capital to discuss this, so you should probably stop commenting on matters of racial equity.
Back on topic: Most of fine art is myth making. I don't mind self serious photographers. It's not my bag, but I don't find those types nearly as gross as paparazzi.
I don't think you should set the rules for me, telling me what to discuss. Start with yourself.
p.2 #10 · Does a [street] photographers background matter? > Phil Penman
stgrove wrote:
So how many of you actually know Phil personally?
Depends on what you mean by know him. I have met him more that once, but only casually and briefly. So, I wouldn't say I know him. I would like to do a workshop with him, but so far our calendars have not matched up. Hopefully, next year it will come together.
p.2 #12 · Does a [street] photographers background matter? > Phil Penman
1bwana1 wrote:
Total B.S.. We all have a race, and we all have lives and experiences, so we all have the cultural capital to discuss the topic. I would say you have no right to judge him based on race which you have clearly done. He has just as much right to have opinions on equity as anyone else on the planet. So sad and so inappropriate. How does a discussion on the merits of an artists work turn into a race issue. I guess just like it did here unfortunately.
Coincidently I will be having dinner with the Chief Equity and Diversity Officer of one of the largest companies in the World in about an hour. I will be sure to get her thoughts on your comments. It should be interesting. One question I will have is "What the hell is cultural capital, and where do you earn it?' ...Show more →
He started his comment with "You know, I was born in a country where there was never any discrimination based on skin color or gender," which is already a red flag, but even if you take it at face value, it makes it objectively clear that he does not have the cultural capital to invalidate someone else's lived experience, which the rest of his comment does. People have very different lived experiences and insight based on their identities. Photography has historically been a craft outside the reach of many groups due to race and economics. Raiz's suggesting that it plays a role in how successful or famous an artist is it not a controversial statement. I don't know if it applies to Phil, it doesn't necessarily seem to, but in general, the assertion is not controversial.
You don't even know what the phrase cultural capital means and you jumped out the window to defend someone's right to it. Bizarre. Hopefully your meeting with your fancy schmancy guest results in some learning.
p.2 #13 · Does a [street] photographers background matter? > Phil Penman
raizans wrote:
I respect the hustle, but then again, so many other photographers hustle and don’t get the recognition they deserve. The best thing Phil Penman has going for him is being a British male in a male-dominated industry. He’s got no real personal vision from what I can see at a cursory glance, and his work is mediocre for a full time photographer. If more women and POC photographers could be as mediocre and still get the same success, I’d feel differently. So yes, background does matter, but in a different way.
Totally ridiculous. Read his account of his coverage of 9/11 at his website. He earned his status by hard work and talent, not by whining or entitlement.
And who cares if he sometimes worked as a celebrity photographer? Shows a lot of gumption and determination and the ability to make good images in a hyper competitive setting.
p.2 #14 · Does a [street] photographers background matter? > Phil Penman
chiron wrote:
Totally ridiculous. Read his account of his coverage of 9/11 at his website. He earned his status by hard work and talent, not by whining or entitlement.
And who cares if he sometimes worked as a celebrity photographer? Shows a lot of gumption and determination and the ability to make good images in a hyper competitive setting.
This is certainly true about paps. It is a dog-eat-dog sector of the industry. To thrive in that space you have to be a beast, so even if the line of work isn't' for me, I'd never call Phil's work ethic into question.
p.2 #15 · Does a [street] photographers background matter? > Phil Penman
RomanMF wrote:
He started his comment with "You know, I was born in a country where there was never any discrimination based on skin color or gender," which is already a red flag, but even if you take it at face value, it makes it objectively clear that he does not have the cultural capital to invalidate someone else's lived experience, which the rest of his comment does. People have very different lived experiences and insight based on their identities. Photography has historically been a craft outside the reach of many groups due to race and economics. The OP suggesting that it plays a role in how successful or famous an artist is it not a controversial statement. I don't know if it applies to Phil, but in general, the statement is not controversial.
You don't even know what the phrase cultural capital means and you jumped out the window to defend someone's right to it. Bizarre. Hopefully your meeting with your fancy schmancy guest results in some learning. ...Show more →
This: “He started his comment with "You know, I was born in a country where there was never any discrimination based on skin color or gender," which is already a red flag,” I completely agree with.
I don’t think there’s any place in the world where skin color and gender don’t play a role in how people are treated. The comment shows that most likely the commenter hasn’t really asked people of color or women about their experiences and how they may be different from what white men would have experienced. To believe discrimination, of any kind, is absent is naive at best.
Whether this applies to this photographer, I have no clue. I doubt it, but I have no knowledge one way or the other.
I do wish no one here would make generic statements about society or groups of people that are purely political beliefs and/or prejudices and nothing more. They have nothing to do with this discussion and no place in it.
p.2 #16 · Does a [street] photographers background matter? > Phil Penman
Not enough image posting on these Leica boards! I've never seen stuff like this in the Nikon and Sony areas. I'm gonna do my part and go post some images I made with an M11 this past weekend.
p.2 #18 · Does a [street] photographers background matter? > Phil Penman
RomanMF wrote:
You don't even know what the phrase cultural capital means and you jumped out the window to defend someone's right to it. Bizarre. Hopefully your meeting with your fancy schmancy guest results in some learning.
Please define "cultural capital" for me. My guess is that it means different things to different people, and is not likely a concept I would buy into in any case.
In any case I wasn't defending his right to it. I was rejecting it's relevance to the discussion.
p.2 #19 · Does a [street] photographers background matter? > Phil Penman
RomanMF wrote:
Not enough image posting on these Leica boards! I've never seen stuff like this in the Nikon and Sony areas. I'm gonna do my part and go post some images I made with an M11 this past weekend.
I agree, I love looking at peoples images and would love to see more of yours.
I also enjoy Penman's. I find them very compelling.
p.2 #20 · Does a [street] photographers background matter? > Phil Penman
I have been on 2 of Phil's "workshops" and I also did 3 one-on-ones with him. So I have had a lot of time with him talking about his past, present and future and of course his shooting approaches..
He is one of my favorite Leica pros out there. Sadly, he recently told me that he is so busy that one-on -ones are no longer possible.
I always try to do one-on-ones with someone who I believe knows their stuff, be it street, specific landscape locations or special events they come up with.
avidPP2 (ugh, how do you get rid of the emoji?)