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The Sony conundrum awesome tech with rough edges and high prices?

  
 
jeffbuzz
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p.4 #1 · The Sony conundrum awesome tech with rough edges and high prices?


EB-1 wrote:
If you want rough edges get a Fuji X System body. They are nearly as harsh as a 70s SLR.

EBH


Hahaha, yes. It's ironic how Fuji users praise the aesthetics of their cameras while bolting on an endless variety of grips so they can actually hold them.



Jul 10, 2026 at 03:43 PM
DWOfPaul
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p.4 #2 · The Sony conundrum awesome tech with rough edges and high prices?


umut_h_toprak wrote:
I feel a lot of the complaints about the "perfect camera" not existing is rather about people waiting for something better than currently offered before upgrading, which I think is a healthy approach rather than buying every generation of equipment. People who frequent forums like this and have no current equipment are surely exceedingly rare.

At least I am on this boat when I mention a flaw about a camera. When I do, it means it was on my radar and the decision not to go for it was because it fell short one way or another.

I agree about the
...Show more

That's exactly my line of thinking too. My main cameras are a Sony a7rIV and a Nikon Z8. Ideally, I would like to update the a7rIV, as I would like to get the better color science, better IBIS, and faster responsiveness that Sony has added to their cameras since. Lens wise 3 of the top lenses 5 lenses on my lens wish list have no Z mount alternative. For example, one is the Sony 28-70mm f2. My current 24-70mm f2.8 is the f mount 24-70mm G and is close to 15 years old now. I think it's fair to say it's had a good run. But before I buy such expensive e mount glass, though, I would like to have an e mount camera I am truly happy with. Especially since next to the Z8(2023) the a7rIV(2019) is showing it's age. But I can't help but feel like Sony has yet to produce that wow I need to upgrade E mount camera.

When the a7rIV launched in 2019 it was priced at 3,500 and it tied or beat the d850 priced at $3,300 in most ways. Now, when the a7rVI came out this year, it was priced at $4,500, while the Z8 is priced around $3,500 and doesn't clearly beat the Z8 in most ways. The closest Sony has to the Z8 is the a1II priced at $7,000, which is abut 2x the price of the Z8 and even then, the Z8 has some features the a1II does not. The value proposition of Sony cameras just seems to be getting worse for my needs. Even the third party lens support isn't as much of a plus anymore when it's still limited to 15fps and even the entry level a7V can do 30fps.

Maybe Sony spoiled us. For the first 4 generations of the r series I thought each one was very exciting, even if I didn't buy it. With the 5th generation, I thought it was a nice improvement, but not as exciting. Now in the 6th generation, I feel like all I would be gaining for photography vs the a7rV is 1 stop of dynamic range at low ISO, 5-6mp, and .5 stop better IBIS. Maybe Sony has just set my expectations too high, but I just can't help but feel like they could do better and make a camera I truly want to buy and feel is worth the price point again, just like they used to do.



Jul 10, 2026 at 04:02 PM
duncangr
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p.4 #3 · The Sony conundrum awesome tech with rough edges and high prices?


DWOfPaul wrote:
This is exactly why I didn't want to get into who has the best AF. It's obvious you will be in the camp of Sony, having by far the best AF, when in reality, most people who have used multiple systems admit that sometimes Sony is better and sometimes Sony is worse. It really comes down to what you photograph, how you photograph, and some personal preference as to what makes the best AF.

For example (start at 8:57, for some reason, the start time is being taken off the URL when I hit submit):

?si=fJqyI2aUJb744CZ9&t=537


That's hilarious - "most people" - making an unqualified claim to prove your point, and then picking one edge case where you probably never want to take a picture anyway - small bird far away in the bushes - and then claim "sometimes better sometimes worse" - when in virtually every other use case it is worse. Just check out the long threads in the Nikon forums from users who struggle to get reliable results and the Mark 2 wish lists people post.

The definition of propaganda is picking the easily proven facts that support the narrative while intentionally ignoring those that don't.

What did you ignore, well here is one example of a more recent Jan Wegener's videos where he says that the one thing Nikon need to get right in their next version of the Z9 is even better autofocus to be able to take advantage of their great lenses (at 10:16) - no way anyone says that if they think the AF is on par with that from the other manufacturers.

?t=618


Regardless I am basing my experience on having used all the above mention cameras myself - and have posted links to AF failures previously so you can check the RAW files out yourself. That big failures aren't even action shots - just relatively simple static shots where the focus was randomly off my meters despite the camera reporting focus on the subject.



Jul 10, 2026 at 04:09 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.4 #4 · The Sony conundrum awesome tech with rough edges and high prices?


duncangr wrote:
That's hilarious - "most people" - making an unqualified claim to prove your point, and then picking one edge case where you probably never want to take a picture anyway - small bird far away in the bushes - and then claim "sometimes better sometimes worse" - when in virtually every other use case it is worse. Just check out the long threads in the Nikon forums from users who struggle to get reliable results and the Mark 2 wish lists people post.

The definition of propaganda is picking the easily proven facts that support the narrative while intentionally ignoring
...Show more

I've had just as many misses on my A1 as my Z9 that I can't explain. Both have flaws. I see no consistent pattern though.

I agree with Jan, the Sony is worse at picking up smaller subjects in busy settings, but better often in picking up subjects against a clean background. You can work around these things. I don't how much A1II has improved over the A1 but it doesn't seem like much changed for initial small subject detection.



Jul 10, 2026 at 09:44 PM
duncangr
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p.4 #5 · The Sony conundrum awesome tech with rough edges and high prices?


Pixel Perfect wrote:
I've had just as many misses on my A1 as my Z9 that I can't explain. Both have flaws. I see no consistent pattern though.

I agree with Jan, the Sony is worse at picking up smaller subjects in busy settings, but better often in picking up subjects against a clean background. You can work around these things. I don't how much A1II has improved over the A1 but it doesn't seem like much changed for initial small subject detection.


You're claiming a win on a useless use-case - when last did anyone post a wonderful wildlife image like that where the subject is that small in the frame - but for sure claim that as a win if it makes you feel better.

It's ironic that if you do tend to take pictures of subjects that are that small you would be better off with the A7RM6 with its higher resolution. Sony has you covered .

As for "most people", "most people" have decided - just look at the mirrorless market share...



Jul 10, 2026 at 10:42 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.4 #6 · The Sony conundrum awesome tech with rough edges and high prices?


duncangr wrote:
You're claiming a win on a useless use-case - when last did anyone post a wonderful wildlife image like that where the subject is that small in the frame - but for sure claim that as a win if it makes you feel better.

It's ironic that if you do tend to take pictures of subjects that are that small you would be better off with the A7RM6 with its higher resolution. Sony has you covered .

As for "most people", "most people" have decided - just look at the mirrorless market share...


Sounding just like a rabid fanboy, well done. If you don't like facts, that's your problem. If you want to trash other brands, that's your problem. I own and shoot both Sony and Nikon and know very well the weaknesses of both brands AF.

Oh and please show us the breakdown of A1(II) sales vs Z9/Z8 rather than posting hype.



Jul 11, 2026 at 07:49 PM
 


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gdanmitchell
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p.4 #7 · The Sony conundrum awesome tech with rough edges and high prices?


jeffbuzz wrote:
Hahaha, yes. It's ironic how Fuji users praise the aesthetics of their cameras while bolting on an endless variety of grips so they can actually hold them.


Well, no, actually.

I know these things are subjective, but it depends which body (from any manufacturer) you are using. One of my systems is based on the XT5, and I would never add a grip to the thing.

Different strokes, and all that.

- - -

DWOfPaul wrote:
That's exactly my line of thinking too. My main cameras are a Sony a7rIV and a Nikon Z8. Ideally, I would like to update the a7rIV, as I would like to get the better color science, better IBIS, and faster responsiveness that Sony has added to their cameras since. Lens wise 3 of the top lenses 5 lenses on my lens wish list have no Z mount alternative. For example, one is the Sony 28-70mm f2. My current 24-70mm f2.8 is the f mount 24-70mm G and is close to 15 years old now. I think it's fair to say
...Show more

Your situation is a little bit similar to mine, though with different pieces in the puzzle. I’ll be moving from a Canon 5DsR to the A7rvi as soon as I see all of the necessary support items i need (things like L-brackets from the manufacturers I use, etc.) and once I sort of the lenses.

About pricing, it is important to consider the effect of inflation on pricing. The A7riv was $3500 at its 2019 introduction. According to one online inflation calculator I checked, the equivalent price today in inflation adjusted dollars is… $4571!

My old 5DsR cost $3699 when it was released in 2015. In inflation adjusted dollars, that would now be… $5212 today! That $3500 A7rvi starts to look like a bargain!

- - -

duncangr wrote:
The definition of propaganda is picking the easily proven facts that support the narrative while intentionally ignoring those that don't.


No. It isn’t. ;-)

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=definition+of+propaganda&t=ipad&ia=web




Jul 11, 2026 at 09:45 PM
shadow9d9
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p.4 #8 · The Sony conundrum awesome tech with rough edges and high prices?


To be fair, market share is widely available. You are picking very specific goal posts by requiring sales of specific cameras. He is right that in mirrorless, market share ia firmly established now, and Nikon is way, way behind.

Pixel Perfect wrote:
Sounding just like a rabid fanboy, well done. If you don't like facts, that's your problem. If you want to trash other brands, that's your problem. I own and shoot both Sony and Nikon and know very well the weaknesses of both brands AF.

Oh and please show us the breakdown of A1(II) sales vs Z9/Z8 rather than posting hype.




Jul 11, 2026 at 11:37 PM
shadow9d9
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p.4 #9 · The Sony conundrum awesome tech with rough edges and high prices?


I feel that neither the RV nor R6 have been particularly interesting. The A1ii certainly wasn't. It is the downside of more frequent models, compared to say, Nikon, whoch is still stuck with only 20fps raw.

DWOfPaul wrote:
That's exactly my line of thinking too. My main cameras are a Sony a7rIV and a Nikon Z8. Ideally, I would like to update the a7rIV, as I would like to get the better color science, better IBIS, and faster responsiveness that Sony has added to their cameras since. Lens wise 3 of the top lenses 5 lenses on my lens wish list have no Z mount alternative. For example, one is the Sony 28-70mm f2. My current 24-70mm f2.8 is the f mount 24-70mm G and is close to 15 years old now. I think it's fair to say
...Show more



Jul 11, 2026 at 11:42 PM
snegron7
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p.4 #10 · The Sony conundrum awesome tech with rough edges and high prices?


DWOfPaul wrote:
There is no doubt Sony is an extremely innovative company and has helped push the photography industry forward. Such as the first full frame mirrorless cameras, the first full frame stacked sensor cameras, the first full frame global shutter camera, and many innovative lenses.

But this innovation often comes with tradeoffs. Take, for instance, the 200-600mm f6.3, which changed the game for telephoto zooms, but has high focus breathing or the 400-800mm f8 that hits a lot of the right marks but then seems to suffer from high sample variation.

Now let's jump to the latest releases, the 100-400mm f4.5 and
...Show more


I currently shoot with a Sony A7c, A7iv, and a Canon R6II (plus an OM System OM-5 for rainy days). The one big issue I find with Sony is the sample variations of their lenses. To "play it safe", I make sure to stick with Tamron lenses because they have performed flawlessly for me over the past couple of years (except for the Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 G2 which suffered from heavy vignetting). When I buy a Tamron lens, I can count on it being at least 95% great when it comes to sharpness, IQ, AF, and overall reliability. On the other hand, I can only count on a Sony lens being 50% either a good or bad copy (decentering issues).

I tried Viltrox and Samyang; both were way worse than even the usual bad Sony lenses I've owned. The Viltrox AF 16mm f1.8 had serious communucation issues with my A7c (froze my camera continuously) and the Samyang 35mm f1.8 had the worst AF noises and klunking that I've ever experienced on any lens ever.

Recently I needed to chose between a 24-105mm f4.0 for either my Sony or for my R6II, so after much thought I went with the RF 24-105 f4.0L. I just couldn't bring myself risking the frustration of wasting money and time on having to return multiple sample variations of the Sony 24-105mm f4.0 until I got a "keeper".

Edited on Jul 12, 2026 at 09:31 AM · View previous versions



Jul 12, 2026 at 12:28 AM
duncangr
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p.4 #11 · The Sony conundrum awesome tech with rough edges and high prices?


gdanmitchell wrote:
No. It isn’t. ;-)

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=definition+of+propaganda&t=ipad&ia=web



Different words, same meaning. Of course in some cases it may all be lies and no facts.

Propoganda by definition is the careful selection of easily verifiable facts to support ones narrative while intentionally omitting the facts that don’t.

That's like calling the fact that Nikon has 12% mirrorless market share 'hype' and instead asking for proof of the A1 / Z8/Z9 sales - as if that even matters. The point being that 80% of former Nikon users like myself have left - i.e. "most people" have let their feet do the talking...

And if you do a quick review of the Nikon forums for the Z8ii/Z9ii wish lists - improved autofocus features prominently - so its not a figment of my imagination, it's a real issue for many Nikon users. As do many of the other features available in other brands and still missing from the Z7/Z8/Z9. These aren't Sony or Canon 'fanboys' posting these wish lists.



Jul 12, 2026 at 07:08 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.4 #12 · The Sony conundrum awesome tech with rough edges and high prices?


duncangr wrote:
Different words, same meaning. Of course in some cases it may all be lies and no facts.

Propoganda by definition is the careful selection of easily verifiable facts to support ones narrative while intentionally omitting the facts that don’t.


One of the many techniques used in propaganda may be the misleading presentation of facts in a dishonest or incomplete context and/or to attempt to steer people to incorrect interpretations.

However, it is simply dead wrong to say that what defines “propaganda” is picking the easily proven facts that support the narrative while intentionally ignoring those that don't.

Propaganda often relies on lies and and disinformation, not facts. In fact, this is the most common sort of propaganda, and its object is to incite emotions on the basis of untrue and inflammatory claims. In fact, quite often it is based on nothing at all but untrue statements or visual representations that inflame existing biases. Look at how propaganda portrays enemies, whether they be countries or other groups.

Show me any authoritative source that states that the core definition of propaganda is as you say.



Jul 12, 2026 at 10:49 AM
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