p.1 #1Quantifying the 5-stop Global Shutter Advantage for Strobes
I think the photography community is still dramatically underplaying the massive advantage a global shutter brings to strobe work.
In a studio setting where you are shooting below sync speed, it is absolutely true that your captured output simply scales with the flash's raw power rating. A big strobe is still a big strobe. However, the moment you step on location and push into high shutter speeds for shallow depth-of-field portraits, a global shutter like the one on the a9 III becomes an absolute godsend that completely changes the math on weight and power.
The Problem with the Old Workarounds We all know High-Speed Sync (HSS) robs you of massive amounts of power because the strobe has to pulse light as the mechanical shutter slit travels across the sensor. To avoid that, the traditional "ND workaround" involves using heavy ND filters to drop your shutter speed below sync speed. The flaw there is that an ND filter cuts ambient daylight and flash output equally.
The Pure Output Gain 📸 With a global shutter, you drop the ND filter entirely. You use ultra-fast shutter speeds to kill the ambient light, but because the entire sensor reads out instantly, you can capture the peak output of the flash without the penalty of HSS pulsing. In terms of pure output, a global shutter yields a full stop more light hitting the sensor than a standard ND filter workaround. Practically speaking, that is the equivalent of upgrading an AD200 to an AD400, but without any of the penalty in size and weight.
The Efficiency Multiplier 📉 The efficiency gains are even more staggering. Because flash duration gets significantly shorter as you lower the power, shooting at ultra-fast shutter speeds (1/16000s to 1/32000s) allows you to capture the entirety of that incredibly brief burst of light. This means a global shutter allows you to hit that 1-stop brightness advantage at just 1/8 power or even 1/16 on a highly optimized speedlight like the Sony F28RM/A.
Using the ND workaround, you are forced to dump your flash at a full 1/1 power pop to get max brightness. That makes the global shutter approach 3 to 4 stops more efficient on top of the raw output gain.
The Real-World Impact 🎒 This lack of efficiency is exactly why photographers have traditionally hauled around massive, heavy strobes, simply to avoid shooting at full power all the time. But with a global shutter, you are only sipping 1/8 or 1/16 power, which completely transforms the shooting experience. Instead of waiting on your flash, you get near-instant recycle times, minimal heat buildup, effortless burst firing, dramatically longer battery life, and rock-solid color consistency from the first shot to the last.
When you add it all up, you are looking at a 4- to 5-stop overall advantage over the traditional ND workaround, the efficiency equivalent of jumping from a 100Ws strobe to a massive 3200Ws pack. Both Sonyâs published data and my own real-world testing confirm this.
For controlled indoor studio shots, I still keep my AD600 around. But for on-location work, I no longer need to drag heavy setups out into the field. I can handle almost any bright, midday situation with just the F28RM/A, pound for pound, the best output-to-weight setup on the market right now.
p.1 #2Quantifying the 5-stop Global Shutter Advantage for Strobes
I think youâd need to do a lot of your images wide open with fast aperture lenses in bright sunny conditions with flash to make the $4k used price (over $6k new!) for an A9iii to make sense, also for some the trade off of a 250 base iso and âonlyâ 24 megapixelsâ might not be worthwhile.
On the strobe side, yes one can squeeze out more power with global shutter but the proper support gear, light stands, sand bags, maybe a boom arm, would make the weight and size savings of the lighting kit less of a consideration.
Also, the advantage of global shutter disappears once you need to shoot with tighter apertures to get deeper depth of field. The last outdoor commercial shoot I did, we were at iso 100 f11, 1/200 SS and global shutter would have given me no advantage. Plus I needed a high megapixel camera and the A9iii at 24mp wouldnât have been sufficient.
My guess is the world hasnât really been set on fire because the A9iii requires a specific buyer, that is willing to look past the modest resolution, 250 base iso and premium price for that feature. At this price range you are not far from the Hasselblad X2D 100c mk2, which can accomplish the same end using leaf shutter lenses while giving you 100 mp, albeit with less capable autofocus and pricier lenses. Also using ND is very cheap and simple to execute relative to global shutter, and nowadays you can get a 1200 watt second Godox pack and head strobe for under a grand.
Lastly, one could avoid spending $4-6k for a global shutter camera by just scheduling your shoot at a different time of day when the sunlight is less challenging.
p.1 #3Quantifying the 5-stop Global Shutter Advantage for Strobes
hiepphotog wrote:
I think the photography community is still dramatically underplaying the massive advantage a global shutter brings to strobe work.
In a studio setting where you are shooting below sync speed, it is absolutely true that your captured output simply scales with the flash's raw power rating. A big strobe is still a big strobe. However, the moment you step on location and push into high shutter speeds for shallow depth-of-field portraits, a global shutter like the one on the a9 III becomes an absolute godsend that completely changes the math on weight and power.
The Problem with the Old Workarounds We all know High-Speed Sync (HSS) robs you of massive amounts of power because the strobe has to pulse light as the mechanical shutter slit travels across the sensor. To avoid that, the traditional "ND workaround" involves using heavy ND filters to drop your shutter speed below sync speed. The flaw there is that an ND filter cuts ambient daylight and flash output equally.
The Pure Output Gain 📸 With a global shutter, you drop the ND filter entirely. You use ultra-fast shutter speeds to kill the ambient light, but because the entire sensor reads out instantly, you can capture the peak output of the flash without the penalty of HSS pulsing. In terms of pure output, a global shutter yields a full stop more light hitting the sensor than a standard ND filter workaround. Practically speaking, that is the equivalent of upgrading an AD200 to an AD400, but without any of the penalty in size and weight.
The Efficiency Multiplier 📉 The efficiency gains are even more staggering. Because flash duration gets significantly shorter as you lower the power, shooting at ultra-fast shutter speeds (1/16000s to 1/32000s) allows you to capture the entirety of that incredibly brief burst of light. This means a global shutter allows you to hit that 1-stop brightness advantage at just 1/8 power or even 1/16 on a highly optimized speedlight like the Sony F28RM/A.
Using the ND workaround, you are forced to dump your flash at a full 1/1 power pop to get max brightness. That makes the global shutter approach 3 to 4 stops more efficient on top of the raw output gain.
The Real-World Impact 🎒 This lack of efficiency is exactly why photographers have traditionally hauled around massive, heavy strobes, simply to avoid shooting at full power all the time. But with a global shutter, you are only sipping 1/8 or 1/16 power, which completely transforms the shooting experience. Instead of waiting on your flash, you get near-instant recycle times, minimal heat buildup, effortless burst firing, dramatically longer battery life, and rock-solid color consistency from the first shot to the last.
When you add it all up, you are looking at a 4- to 5-stop overall advantage over the traditional ND workaround, the efficiency equivalent of jumping from a 100Ws strobe to a massive 3200Ws pack. Both Sonyâs published data and my own real-world testing confirm this.
For controlled indoor studio shots, I still keep my AD600 around. But for on-location work, I no longer need to drag heavy setups out into the field. I can handle almost any bright, midday situation with just the F28RM/A, pound for pound, the best output-to-weight setup on the market right now. ...Show more →
I'm not understanding that logic. A F28RM/A is still a wimpy little flash. The GN does not get any better due to having a very fast synch speed. All it does is reduce the ambient light. I suppose you are at high ISO with a very fast lens, close range and no modifiers? At full power and 50mm that flash only is rated at GN 92 feet at ISO 100, which would be nowhere near that outdoors; let's assume it's 68. At 1/8 power that is about GN 24 feet. It may work in some scenarios, but people still want more flash power much of the time. Would you use that flash at night where the synch speed is no longer an issue?
p.1 #4Quantifying the 5-stop Global Shutter Advantage for Strobes
It seems like a convenient upgrade but not anything I'm going to build a creative identity around. Even with HSS, we all clamored to use it initially, and still to this day it's comes in clutch occasionally. But it's maybe 10% of the work I shoot? The points you're raising make sense logistically but not really creatively - I'm not rushing to bring strobes to my outdoor work.
p.1 #5Quantifying the 5-stop Global Shutter Advantage for Strobes
Sync speed is an under appreciated benefit of a global shutter. But I wouldn't buy an a9 III purely for the sync speed. It is certainly a nice bonus if you can take advantage of it. If portrait skin tones are your primary concern, you're probably still better off dealing with HSS on a slower sensor. Hopefully one or two sensor generations down the road and we'll have global shutters and higher tonal range in the same device.
p.1 #6Quantifying the 5-stop Global Shutter Advantage for Strobes
Gents, the point is simple: a global shutter gives you creative tools that you can use, or ignore, as you see fit. Photographers have always made masterpieces without todayâs tech, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't push the boundaries of what's possible now. GS isn't a magic bullet for every strobe user. But understanding what it brings to the table is where the creative edge begins. 😄
p.1 #7Quantifying the 5-stop Global Shutter Advantage for Strobes
EB-1 wrote: hiepphotog wroteI think the photography community is still dramatically underplaying the massive advantage a global shutter brings to strobe work.
In a studio setting where you are shooting below sync speed, it is absolutely true that your captured output simply scales with the flash's raw power rating. A big strobe is still a big strobe. However, the moment you step on location and push into high shutter speeds for shallow depth-of-field portraits, a global shutter like the one on the a9 III becomes an absolute godsend that completely changes the math on weight and power.
The Problem with the Old Workarounds We all know High-Speed Sync (HSS) robs you of massive amounts of power because the strobe has to pulse light as the mechanical shutter slit travels across the sensor. To avoid that, the traditional "ND workaround" involves using heavy ND filters to drop your shutter speed below sync speed. The flaw there is that an ND filter cuts ambient daylight and flash output equally.
The Pure Output Gain 📸 With a global shutter, you drop the ND filter entirely. You use ultra-fast shutter speeds to kill the ambient light, but because the entire sensor reads out instantly, you can capture the peak output of the flash without the penalty of HSS pulsing. In terms of pure output, a global shutter yields a full stop more light hitting the sensor than a standard ND filter workaround. Practically speaking, that is the equivalent of upgrading an AD200 to an AD400, but without any of the penalty in size and weight.
The Efficiency Multiplier 📉 The efficiency gains are even more staggering. Because flash duration gets significantly shorter as you lower the power, shooting at ultra-fast shutter speeds (1/16000s to 1/32000s) allows you to capture the entirety of that incredibly brief burst of light. This means a global shutter allows you to hit that 1-stop brightness advantage at just 1/8 power or even 1/16 on a highly optimized speedlight like the Sony F28RM/A.
Using the ND workaround, you are forced to dump your flash at a full 1/1 power pop to get max brightness. That makes the global shutter approach 3 to 4 stops more efficient on top of the raw output gain.
The Real-World Impact 🎒 This lack of efficiency is exactly why photographers have traditionally hauled around massive, heavy strobes, simply to avoid shooting at full power all the time. But with a global shutter, you are only sipping 1/8 or 1/16 power, which completely transforms the shooting experience. Instead of waiting on your flash, you get near-instant recycle times, minimal heat buildup, effortless burst firing, dramatically longer battery life, and rock-solid color consistency from the first shot to the last.
When you add it all up, you are looking at a 4- to 5-stop overall advantage over the traditional ND workaround, the efficiency equivalent of jumping from a 100Ws strobe to a massive 3200Ws pack. Both Sonyâs published data and my own real-world testing confirm this.
For controlled indoor studio shots, I still keep my AD600 around. But for on-location work, I no longer need to drag heavy setups out into the field. I can handle almost any bright, midday situation with just the F28RM/A, pound for pound, the best output-to-weight setup on the market right now.I'm not understanding that logic. A F28RM/A is still a wimpy little flash. The GN does not get any better due to having a very fast synch speed. All it does is reduce the ambient light. I suppose you are at high ISO with a very fast lens, close range and no modifiers? At full power and 50mm that flash only is rated at GN 92 feet at ISO 100, which would be nowhere near that outdoors; let's assume it's 68. At 1/8 power that is about GN 24 feet. It may work in some scenarios, but people still want more flash power much of the time. Would you use that flash at night where the synch speed is no longer an issue?
Outdoor work is a different beast, placing a light 24 feet away isn't something you can easily do with just any strobe. Even with a 600Ws unit, the setup needs a big enough reflector. Also, let's not get fixated on the F28RM/A; the real point is that a global shutter unlocks these advantages for all lights, not just one specific flash.
p.1 #8Quantifying the 5-stop Global Shutter Advantage for Strobes
sungphoto wrote:
I think youâd need to do a lot of your images wide open with fast aperture lenses in bright sunny conditions with flash to make the $4k used price (over $6k new!) for an A9iii to make sense, also for some the trade off of a 250 base iso and âonlyâ 24 megapixelsâ might not be worthwhile.
On the strobe side, yes one can squeeze out more power with global shutter but the proper support gear, light stands, sand bags, maybe a boom arm, would make the weight and size savings of the lighting kit less of a consideration.
Also, the advantage of global shutter disappears once you need to shoot with tighter apertures to get deeper depth of field. The last outdoor commercial shoot I did, we were at iso 100 f11, 1/200 SS and global shutter would have given me no advantage. Plus I needed a high megapixel camera and the A9iii at 24mp wouldnât have been sufficient.
My guess is the world hasnât really been set on fire because the A9iii requires a specific buyer, that is willing to look past the modest resolution, 250 base iso and premium price for that feature. At this price range you are not far from the Hasselblad X2D 100c mk2, which can accomplish the same end using leaf shutter lenses while giving you 100 mp, albeit with less capable autofocus and pricier lenses. Also using ND is very cheap and simple to execute relative to global shutter, and nowadays you can get a 1200 watt second Godox pack and head strobe for under a grand.
Lastly, one could avoid spending $4-6k for a global shutter camera by just scheduling your shoot at a different time of day when the sunlight is less challenging. ...Show more →
Spot on.
I've been using the Xplor (godox) 1200 Pro (pack) for years and it is awesome.
Global shutter is nice but it's too much $ at this time for my interest with its current downsides.
p.1 #9Quantifying the 5-stop Global Shutter Advantage for Strobes
I really wanted that GS but the negative factors for me were price, lower DR, and higher base ISO. For this buying cycle, I decided the OG A1 was a better match for my purpose, even though the extra MP are mildly annoying. As a practical matter, X-sync of 1/200s (ES) and 1/400s (EFCS) is good enough for my studio strobe shoots and flash-driven events.
p.1 #11Quantifying the 5-stop Global Shutter Advantage for Strobes
To put it another way, your âpitchâ is essentially âget the Strobist aesthetic at Âź the weight of you current setup.â And I think for a lot of us, even those of us who âcame upâ through the Strobist era, and who were initially attracted to âbeating the sunâ, we have long abandoned that as a dream. Itâs trendy and even effective for some markets, but itâs just not great to have your style tied to one thing. Certainly not (for me) a deciding factor in what camera system I use.
If it comes to a future camera model in my current system I welcome it, and would likely use it occasionally. But thatâs really all that can be said for me.
p.1 #12Quantifying the 5-stop Global Shutter Advantage for Strobes
jlafferty wrote:
To put it another way, your âpitchâ is essentially âget the Strobist aesthetic at Âź the weight of you current setup.â And I think for a lot of us, even those of us who âcame upâ through the Strobist era, and who were initially attracted to âbeating the sunâ, we have long abandoned that as a dream. Itâs trendy and even effective for some markets, but itâs just not great to have your style tied to one thing. Certainly not (for me) a deciding factor in what camera system I use.
If it comes to a future camera model in my current system I welcome it, and would likely use it occasionally. But thatâs really all that can be said for me....Show more →
Yeah, so many things have changed since the days when global shutter could have been a game changing solution; stylistic trends, reasonably priced powerful continuous LED lights (I think the GVM 1200 watt bicolor is about $1400?), shift towards a mix of motion and stills for many projects that tends to make continuous lighting more favorable, cheap powerful strobes, and a global economy that is still struggling post pandemic. Hard to justify purchasing a $4-6k camera and potentially change systems to have a tool that you may not use enough to justify the cost (on top of the other tradeoffs on iso range, resolution, lens choice, color science, dynamic range, light triggers etc)
p.1 #13Quantifying the 5-stop Global Shutter Advantage for Strobes
jlafferty wrote: hiepphotog wroteGents, the point is simple: a global shutter gives you creative tools that you can use, or ignore, as you see fit...Yeah but the point isn't "simple" if it requires (currently) that we ditch our system and jump to a new one for this one feature.
Your original post makes the claim that people are drastically underestimating it, when in reality I'd say you're overhyping its usefulness.
I think there might be a misunderstanding. My post wasn't hype; it was a technical breakdown based on actual facts and measurements.
To my knowledge, no one has shared real numbers on the exact stop gain when comparing a Global Shutter to an ND filter workaround, nor have they discussed the implications for power efficiency. This was purely intended as a technical deep-dive. I am absolutely not suggesting that Global Shutter should replace traditional cameras for all strobe use, or that anyone should buy an A9III solely for that purpose. Let's keep the focus on the data.
p.1 #14Quantifying the 5-stop Global Shutter Advantage for Strobes
There is no doubt that GS can be useful but you were finding the best case scenario and maximum improvement in flash to sun ratio. I've never needed an ND filter with flash, so not sure why you are doing that. a1 is listed as 1/400 so f/8 at ISO 100 would be fine per sunny 16. Or you could use HSS to go faster/wider open without needing a crazy 1/80,000th.
If the globular shutter were around earlier and not low-res/high price it would be more desirable. It will interesting to see if the a1 III can get there without the current penalties or if it will take longer. I imagine that 10-15 years ago everything will be be globular shutters, just like we will eventually stop calling the MILC mirrorless since SLRS will be fully obsolete.
p.1 #15Quantifying the 5-stop Global Shutter Advantage for Strobes
The "make daytime into night" aesthetic has been overdone. HSS made it relatively easy for people to achieve that look. Before HSS, you needed big lights with an ND filter or a medium format system with a leaf shutter. HSS made that style accessible to more shooters which made it more common to see. If you enjoy that look, have at it. But to me it falls in the same category as unnecessarily obliterating backgrounds just to prove you have an f/zero-point-something lens. I prefer a bit of context in portraits.
p.1 #17Quantifying the 5-stop Global Shutter Advantage for Strobes
I'd love to see global shutters in mainstream bodies. John Chiasson, my mentor created beautiful portraits utilizing strobe and Hasselblad for magazines and music industry clients in the early nineties when I worked with him. I've played with HSS but it's a highly inefficient technique.
p.1 #20Quantifying the 5-stop Global Shutter Advantage for Strobes
Basically my understanding is that if I'm shooting at 1/8000 shutter speed with a GS camera, as long as the strobe's flash duration is longer than 1/8000 it doesn't really matter what power output the strobe is at because you're only sampling 1/8000 of that output (exposure would remain the same assuming the sampling is done consistently from the same portion of the output curve).
1/8000 t.1 might be pretty far down the output range of a given strobe, so you will still need an efficient modifier to use with it, though you'll also probably be at f/1.4 or f/2 if balancing with daylight, meaning the effective guide number of the strobe and modifier combination can still be a lot lower than traditional options. I recall 2-3 years ago someone here on FM posted full length body photos balanced with daylight shot with the a9III and a tiny strobe in a Para modifier. So there certainly can be some interesting options that can be pulled off with a small strobe that otherwise couldn't be done with HSS or NDs. But if intending to use less efficient modifiers, you still may need more powerful strobes in order to achieve higher output at 1/8000 flash duration.
Regarding the leaf shutter argument: traditionally leaf shutter usually only went to 1/500, but modern systems go up to 1/2000 IIRC. But isn't there an issue with nonuniform exposure at these speeds (maybe it just affects ambient if strobe duration is shorter), that in turn impacts bokeh quality?