philip_pj wrote:
#14 They were going pretty well, until this piece:
'It is a combination of optical *quirks*—such as color rendering, bokeh, flare, and contrast—that give photographs or footage an artistic, emotional, or distinct personality."
The best propaganda works by inserting a single negative inside otherwise positive text:
Quirk (definition): 'a quirk is a peculiar behavioral habit, a strange twist of fate, or an unpredictable irregularity in a system.'
We can do better, for example: >
'Lens 'character' is the intentional outcome of explicit design choices that, taken together, engender the designers' vision for lens imaging styles that delivers a gestalt of endearing qualities - so as to appeal to those seeking artistry in their photographic pursuits, rather than base level technical performance.' Antonyms: clinical, performative, technical....Show more →
This definition is also good for me. Do you have any lenses to suggest, satisfying my needs ?
@tuxounet
I went through this and ended up with 3 prime 35mm lenses for Sony 🤣 The tiny f2.8 Zeiss ZA, the GM f1.4 and the Sigma f2 Contemporary. The Sigma is 95% of the GM for what I shoot and I seem to always grab it instead because of the smaller size/weight. But for traveling it is not as small as I would like, because I use the A7CR and travel with primes. The ZA is for traveling and it’s just OK for that…
So I am traveling in SE Asia right now for 2 months and brought my Fuji 40mp XT5 kit instead. Have the Fuji WR, compact 23mm f2 (35mm FF eq) and the C/V 27 f2 Ultron (40mm FF eq). They are both excellent. Also have 3 other primes.
When I return I am considering selling my trio of 35mm lenses for Sony and getting the C/V 35mm f2 APO. It can replace all 3, for me, as I really enjoy my 3 other C/V lenses. Sorry if that doesn’t help.
Although it is not on the list, could you describe the difference in image quality between the Sigma and the ZA?
Sure, the Sigma 35mm I series is not that large of a lens, it is just a bit smaller than my 24 f2 and 65 mm f2 I series lenses with a 58mm filter thread vs 62 mm for the 2 others. The weight is listed at 325 grams but that is without the reversed metal hood or magnetic lens cap, both nice features, and the carry weight is closer to 400 grams. The 65mm is listed at 405 grams but it is closer to 500 with the metal hood and magnetic cap. The 24 weight wise is about halfway between them. Also have the Sigma 90mm f2.8 I series, but being a f2.8 it’s under 300 grams alone. When I was shooting with my A7IV all was fine with the bigger body.
However when I added the A7CR, I wanted to reduce the lens sizes and weight even more for travel. Had the 35mm f2.8 and 55mm f1.8 ZA from Zeiss (my first 2 Sony lenses back in 2018) and rebought a FE 28mm f2. These all use 49mm filters and as I usually carry 1 CPL and 3 ND filters for each size, so it saved some weight too. (Long time portrait shooter- use the filters with flash to get the flash sync speed down, also help with the 1/4000 ss limitation of the A7CR when using fast primes in sunny conditions.) Usually carry the Sig 90 and a C/V 21mm f3.5 too, so 5 lenses total. All fits in a PD 6L sling bag and weighs just about 7 pounds, great size/weight travel combo for 5 primes. The C/V 35mm APO f2 I am lusting after is also a 49mm thread so it will fit in the 5 lens kit just fine. Yes, it and the 35 Sigma are close in size/weight but I don’t have to carry a set of 58mm filters, thus saving some bulk and weight. Will carry a set of 55mm filters though for the 90mm and a 52 to 55 step-up ring for the 21mm.
Regarding the 35mm Sigma vs the ZA, the Sigma is noticeably sharper wide open in the corners. The ZA shows LoCA up until f5.6 and the Sigma is better in this regard too. The ZA overall, being what 13 years old and so compact, is a fine travel lens with very good AF. I have enjoyed using it all these years, but it is not a competent option to the GM, where the Sigma is. For me, I am willing to use a MF lens for better IQ, as the APO is a really great lens from all reports and the photos seen here at FM. I am enjoying my Voigt 27mm (40mm FF eq) f2 immensely with my Fuji, it is by far my most used lens on my trip thru week 6, which surprised me.
Bottom line for you, the Sigma is a solid choice. Very good lens with no real flaws and at a substantial size and weight savings vs the 35 GM.
Although it is not on the list, could you describe the difference in image quality between the Sigma and the ZA?Sure, the Sigma 35mm I series is not that large of a lens, it is just a bit smaller than my 24 f2 and 65 mm f2 I series lenses with a 58mm filter thread vs 62 mm for the 2 others. The weight is listed at 325 grams but that is without the reversed metal hood or magnetic lens cap, both nice features, and the carry weight is closer to 400 grams. The 65mm is listed at 405 grams but it is closer to 500 with the metal hood and magnetic cap. The 24 weight wise is about halfway between them. Also have the Sigma 90mm f2.8 I series, but being a f2.8 it’s under 300 grams alone. When I was shooting with my A7IV all was fine with the bigger body.
However when I added the A7CR, I wanted to reduce the lens sizes and weight even more for travel. Had the 35mm f2.8 and 55mm f1.8 ZA from Zeiss (my first 2 Sony lenses back in 2018) and rebought a FE 28mm f2. These all use 49mm filters and as I usually carry 1 CPL and 3 ND filters for each size, so it saved some weight too. (Long time portrait shooter- use the filters with flash to get the flash sync speed down, also help with the 1/4000 ss limitation of the A7CR when using fast primes in sunny conditions.) Usually carry the Sig 90 and a C/V 21mm f3.5 too, so 5 lenses total. All fits in a PD 6L sling bag and weighs just about 7 pounds, great size/weight travel combo for 5 primes. The C/V 35mm APO f2 I am lusting after is also a 49mm thread so it will fit in the 5 lens kit just fine. Yes, it and the 35 Sigma are close in size/weight but I don’t have to carry a set of 58mm filters, thus saving some bulk and weight. Will carry a set of 55mm filters though for the 90mm and a 52 to 55 step-up ring for the 21mm.
Regarding the 35mm Sigma vs the ZA, the Sigma is noticeably sharper wide open in the corners. The ZA shows LoCA up until f5.6 and the Sigma is better in this regard too. The ZA overall, being what 13 years old and so compact, is a fine travel lens with very good AF. I have enjoyed using it all these years, but it is not a competent option to the GM, where the Sigma is. For me, I am willing to use a MF lens for better IQ, as the APO is a really great lens from all reports and the photos seen here at FM. I am enjoying my Voigt 27mm (40mm FF eq) f2 immensely with my Fuji, it is by far my most used lens on my trip thru week 6, which surprised me.
Bottom line for you, the Sigma is a solid choice. Very good lens with no real flaws and at a substantial size and weight savings vs the 35 GM. ...Show more →
Thank you so much for taking time to answer. Appreciate that!
So yeah, globally the Sigma i35 seems to be the best answer…
Despite the huge number of lenses released, no-one has quite nailed the requirement for a "little brother" 35mm IMHO. I believe there is a recent Viltrox 40mm which is well regarded, if that is not too far away from 35 for you. But I don’t have any experience of it myself.
I went to my usual photo shop, and they had a used 35 mm ZA as well as a Sigma 45 mm f/2.8. No i35 or Viltrox.
So I tried both on my camera body. The 35 mm ZA is incredibly light—it's amazing how much of a difference that makes. The quality seems fine. The autofocus feels very fast for a lens that old. But no aperture ring and no F2 :/
The Sigma 45 mm is bulkier but much better built. Surprisingly, I find the 45 mm quite natural—much more so than the 50 mm… The aperture ring is a pleasure to use. The lens is still heavier than the 35 mm ZA. The bokeh looks nicer on the Sigma.
The Sigma 45 mm is bulkier but much better built. Surprisingly, I find the 45 mm quite natural—much more so than the 50 mm… The aperture ring is a pleasure to use. The lens is still heavier than the 35 mm ZA. The bokeh looks nicer on the Sigma.
…
Ah the 45 Sigma f2.8, this is my 5th DC DN I series lens. Small, very well built and it has a somewhat unique bokeh. Sigma engineers purposely designed this lens with spherical aberrations to help smooth the bokeh. There is an interesting read about this lens at Sigma website, see “Ohsone’s Anecdotes Episode 6” all about the special design of this lens. Also check out the FM 68 page thread about this lens. Many users just love it.
It is my least used of my 5 I series lenses, but that no reflection on its IQ or performance, I just don’t seem to click with the 45mm F/L, and use my 40 and 55 mm lenses more. I do use its beautiful all metal hood on my Sigma 90, as it fits and is half the length and weight.👌
Leica 35/2 or many copycats (Mandler lens?) with an adapter? Mandler is weird wide open, but it cleans up closed down, and it is tiny comparing to Sigma 35/2. Or 24-50/2.8 and call it a day - 24,28,35,50mm in one compact lens just slightly fatter than Sigma . I am less than a month into Sony eco system, and I already got 4 lenses covering 35mm...
olegkin wrote:
Leica 35/2 or many copycats (Mandler lens?) with an adapter? Mandler is weird wide open, but it cleans up closed down, and it is tiny comparing to Sigma 35/2. Or 24-50/2.8 and call it a day - 24,28,35,50mm in one compact lens just slightly fatter than Sigma . I am less than a month into Sony eco system, and I already got 4 lenses covering 35mm...
What you said is interesting. This could be a great travel combo: a 24‑50 mm f/2.8 and either the Viltrox 35 mm or the Sony 35 mm ZA.
The Leica lenses are manual‑focus, so… no.
After a day of reflection, the 35 mm ZA appeals to me because of its weight; it really changes how the camera feels… it is literally an other camera. But am I ready to lose the aperture ring and the f/2 aperture? I still need to think about that, and I still need to find an i35 to test.
Not much love for the Sony FE 35mm f/1.8 it seems, but I got it recently, and I like it a lot. It is really light for a relatively fast prime. On the used market it is not too hard to get for a similar price than the Viltrox EVO.
I've tried for a long time to find exactly the same thing. From what you've said so far in the thread, I'd highly recommend you try the Sony 40G. I think it is as close as you can get to the 35GM. Great autofocus, great image quality, aperture ring and button, great weathersealing. I used it for a long time, and was the perfect alternative to the 35GM when I wanted something smaller and less obtrusive. I cannot recommend it enough. It isn't F2, but 2.5 wasn't an issue in low light too often, and it has the subject separation of a 35 F2.2, so not far off there.
The only complaints I have are incredibly minor and subjective. As convenient as it is, I didn't like the look of the default lens hood, which was easily remedied with a Haoge square hood (which I also have for my 35GM, so it really was the little brother). The other more important thing I just never could get past is that 40mm just isn't 35mm. I see in 35mm, and every time I lifted the camera up, I'd be just a bit too cropped in. Often I could take the step back, and there were times where a bit tighter was nice. But I just didn't enjoy the experience of seeing something, and instead of immediately being able to take the picture, having to recompose a bit before getting the photo I wanted.
If you're more flexible than I am, then I would do everything to push you towards the 40G. I use the 35 2.8 ZA now instead for my everyday carry lens, and I enjoy it, but in my opinion, it is the inferior lens in every way except slightly smaller and (most importantly for me) slightly wider. Not as good of a focus, not as sharp, not as weathersealed, no aperture ring or button. If only Sony had made it 35, or I wasn't so single-visioned... :')
Otherwise, I don't think there's too many other options out there. I don't care about weight as much as I care about length with the lens hood on. With the Haoge square hood which is much smaller than the default lens hood, the smaller F1.8-F2 options don't provide enough of a reduction for the other tradeoffs. If size and weight were a big factor and I could only have one lens, the Viltrox EVO seems hard to beat as the perfect compromise. But since I do have the GM, if I'm going to be carrying that big of a lens, I feel like I might as well just go a bit farther and grab the better lens.
I've had the Sony 35 1.8, enjoyed that lens a lot, but the fringing and lack of real weathersealing made me upgrade to the GM. Haven't tried the Sigma 35i, but had the 90 2.8, and just didn't mesh with the design for some reason.
There is the Techart M-mount to E-mount adapters that can add autofocus to manual focus lenses, so you can get really compact fast options that way, like the Voigtlander 35mm 1.4. But the autofocus, from my understanding, leaves a lot to be desired, and lenses designed for the M sensors will be worse quality than the same lens that is native to the E-mount. But that would be an avenue to go to get a compact lens with character that is fast and technically has autofocus. This video is 10 years old, but it does a good job of showing how compact it can be:
Would love to hear other people comment on how an adapted 35mm M-mount lens compares to the 35MM ZA in terms of autofocus and image quality. Could be worth giving up weather sealing to have a compact 35mm 1.4 with autofocus.
Maybe give Sony’s 35mm f/1.8 a try. Based on what you’ve described, you may end up enjoying it.
I’ve learned not to put too much stock in what other people say about a lens. Take some pictures, process them the way you like, and see what speaks to you. Sometimes the very qualities one person dismisses are exactly what another person sees as character. That’s a personal thing.
I bought the lens the day it was released and used it for quite a while. It’s compact, focuses incredibly fast, and its rendering gives you plenty to work with in post if you’re after a particular look.
tuxounet wrote:
Imperfections giving beauty to the image. Something more analog, cinematic.
Surfnsun wroteDefine character.
tuxounet wroteClinical sharpness is not a requirement. I have the GM for that. I would even prefer a lens with character. Which one (of the listed in this thread) have more character?
I used to have the 35/1.8, but I wasn't a fan of it because of his plasticky feel of the image and some noticeable chromatic aberrations. So, I made the switch to the 35GM, and I absolutely love it! However, there are times when I wish for something lighter and easier to carry around.
I’ve tried a few alternatives:
- The 40/2.5 is an improvement over the 35/1.8 in terms of image quality, but image looks too sharp and feels a bit unreal.
- The Viltrox 35/1.8 II EVO didn't impress me with its bokeh or rendering. While it does handle aberrations better, I was surprised to find significant sample variations. I ordered three through Amazon, and each one was different!
- The Sigma 35i is nice, but it’s almost the same size and weight as the 35GM.
So, for me, the 35GM really is the one and only! That's my story!
1. The size gain compared with the i35 is quite small.
2. The 35 ZA is, for its part, much more compact (the biggest point)
3. The 35 ZA and the 35 1.8 do not have an aperture ring.
4. The 35 1.8 is … 1.8 while the ZA is only 2.8.
5. Both are lenses with character.
All things considered, I admit the ZA appeals to me more. Ideally it would have been a ZA F2…
I was also blown away by the “Made in Japan” quality of the i45, and Sigma’s philosophy of everything being manufactured in their single Japanese factory resonates strongly with me. After that, if such arguments are taken into account, I’m not close to making a choice …
I still haven’t been able to get my hands on an i35, a Viltrox, or a FE 40 mm f/2.5. I’ll try to look at (and, if possible, test) them following your advice.