p.1 #1 · New tripod legs in search for a new head (800mm telephoto landscapes + some wildlife)
Hi,
I have just upgraded tripod and I am in a search for the best head for it.
I shoot mainly landscapes including telephoto landscapes and especially Moon alignments (a Moon close to prominent feature on horizon with long lens).
My ordinary long telephoto lens is Tamron 50-400 which is often enough for landscapes on 60MP A7RV because air quality is having strong impact in warmer months. But for colder months I wanted something longer. For that I have got Sony 400-800 recently. I also plan to use it for some birds (no idea if that will be long term hobby though). I am aware that requirements for great landscape head and birding head diverge.
My older tripod is Gitzo GK100T (very similar to GT1545 with GH1382TQD but about 100g lighter due to use of magnesium alloy). It was so good for many uses (and quite better in stability than my even older Feisol CT-3442 Tournament that I still have with Sirui K-30x ballhead). But it was quite underspecced for 400-800.
Weak tripod can work for landscapes, as long as you do not have to touch the camera or lens and there is no wind. It works with intervalometer or remote shutter. That is what I learned a decade earlier when I first got a long lens. See my 2015 tests here: https://jtra.cz/stuff/review/tripod-ballhead-technique-test/index.html
In my last trip I was finally able to do Moon alignment with great subject and good air. But the 400-800 on GK100T tripod was limiting. AF was not working for low contrast subject (while the Moon was not out yet). Manual focus was shaking the lens too much to focus. Dampening of vibrations took more than 5 seconds after a touch and I was running out of time.
I did manage to focus with focus buttons on BT remote though it was not perfect and it is hard to tell if air quality would allow better, but BT remotes work quite unreliably with my camera so I don't want to rely on them. Cropped result can be seen here: https://www.instagram.com/p/DVb8vKFjGkG/
So I decided it is time for a new tripod.
For tripod legs my choice was obvious: something from Gitzo. I am happy with existing GK100T and I see on the center column (TCC) website that it is top brand for tripod legs at least by stiffness measurements there. Being in middle of Europe makes other good brands like RRS or PMG harder to obtain or get service from. I like that spare parts can be ordered for Gitzo, I already did with GK100T after I lost non-captive pan-lock screw (by rotating it wrong way in the dark).
I have chosen GT4543LS after investigating several variants of series 3 to 5, their weight, height and their combined stiffness with available ballheads. The center column website shows formula for combining tripod stiffness and ballhead stiffness (which they also experimentally verified with great results) so I did that with few head options and few tripod options (for some I have estimated stiffness based on what happened to stiffness when adding a section on other models or what TCC did measure for changing height of tripod). With stiff legs the ballhead stiffness is quite important for overall stiffness. If you are interested in that I have a copy of the sheet shared here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YZqp7aUUNHwTsyOxlZy8hX0mKxwm60oRYJ8be5jAIcU/edit?usp=sharing
So I am now in search for a head for the GT4543LS. I have the Sirui K-30x. This one stands quite high in the ballhead stiffness (and stiffness per weight too) ranking In the TCC. On the other hand Gitzo's ballheads have poor stiffness rating on the TCC.
I did a vibration test at 800mm, A7RV liveview top magnification.
On the GK100T with its GH1382TQD ballhead highest position without center column extended: after a touch on camera the visible vibrations ceased after 6 seconds. Light touch was already shaking it too much.
On the GK4543LS with K-30x the vibration ceased in about 1 to 1.5 seconds and light touch was shaking it just lightly. It worked similarly at highest extension or with just 3 sections that was about the height of GK100T without center column extended.
So the K-30x is not bad (though numeric strip on friction screw is rotating freely on mine, it often increases friction randomly while friction screw is in no-friction position).
I tried it also in side gimbal mode (which I might use for birds) where ballhead is in the notch on side and lens has collar rotated to side. It worked quite well. It was quite smooth (not every ballhead has smooth panning when load is off center) and the tripod was handling side load well. However after few minutes it started screeching because sharp edge of the notch was scrapping paint off the ball's neck and it was getting in between the notch and neck.
I just want to try something better. But something that also works well in that side configuration would be great. I do not want full gimbal. I think it is likely not as stiff for landscape long lens use (where shutter speed is slow) and most are quite heavy plus take a lot of space. I have one cheap K&F full cradle gimbal that is designed panoramas but terrible for birding. I might try also monogimbal with monopod at some point.
The TCC lists these ballheads as stiffer than K-30x:
Feisol CB-70D, Markins Q20i, RRS BH-55 Screw, FLM CB-58FTR, RRS BH-55 Lever, Sirui K-40X, Markins M10.
The problem is that TCC is somewhat outdated. I think they tested most of the stuff around 2018. There may be great ballheads available now that are not covered.
Of the ballheads above I am considering Markins Q20i (possibly with BV attachment that converts it to two way head, but that one keeps the weight center above center of rotation). It is one of the best in stiffness per weight. Btw, is Markins TH-230 tripod hub worth it to increase stiffness on current 4 series tripod?
For the others CB-70D seems too heavy (though stiffness per weight is great) and there only few reviews of it online. RRS BH-55 is also heavy and kind of uninteresting (not the smoothest, not the zero-drift). FLM has tilt mode, which is nice, but when active it is no longer smooth according to reviews I read so not great for birds then.
I am also considering Flexshooter Pro. No idea how stiff it would be locked down (it is not measured on TCC), but its like gimbal operation could be nice for birds. Extreme edition might be stiffer but weight 1150g is too much.
I am aware of new Gitzo head GH4383 that has fluid panning base and it is stronger than 3382. But it is quite heavy. Given the stiffness measurement of other Gitzo heads on TCC I doubt that it will be great in that. It might be fine other things though.
FLM has some new GX heads, but they are not sold in Europe. They are no longer made in Germany so hard to tell how they will be stiff.
Leofoto has everything. No idea how good it is. I have few pano clamps and they are ok.
I have not investigated fluid heads much. I think the good ones for 400-800 are too heavy, but maybe I should look at some?
Any tips for ballheads to investigate? Do you have a ballhead that works great in off-center gimbal mode?
p.1 #2 · New tripod legs in search for a new head (800mm telephoto landscapes + some wildlife)
IME a better tripod is needed for landscapes than wildlife since wildlife is usually alive and moving to some degree or another and faster shutter speeds would be used. I usually use a full gimbal head for wildlife, either on a 3 series Systemic with a RRS leveling base, 2 series RRS or some kind of Leofoto that a bit less rigid but fine for a 600/4 prime with 1.4x for wildlife. I have a BH-55 and also the Markins Q20i with the BV plate that turns it into a semi-gimbal. I do near gigapixel images with a Canon 100-500 lens on the BH-55 with 3 series legs and a Wimberly Sidekick for multi-row if needed. The longest lens I use on the a7rV is the 200-600, usually with the Jobu Jr.3 Dlx for wildlife, not landscapes.
A 4 series Gitzo is a sturdy tripod so I think you would be fine with a head as strong as the BH-55 (though there are some other issues with it) if you don't need the smoothest ball. I don't know if you can get service for RRS in Europe. Maybe find an alternative of not.
I only used the Flexshooter a few times and it's not my favorite for landscape, and just OK for wildlife.
At least you can get service in Europe. Some of them have problems loosening internally and have to sent back there.
I am curious if you are using the OS/IBIS with those tests mentioned above? I find that using a lens with stabilization and a camera with IBIS together produces a high degree of image stabilization on a tripod, better than even a strong tripod and solid head without it most of the time.
p.1 #3 · New tripod legs in search for a new head (800mm telephoto landscapes + some wildlife)
EB-1 wrote:
IME a better tripod is needed for landscapes than wildlife since wildlife is usually alive and moving to some degree or another and faster shutter speeds would be used.
Yeah, I totally agree. For wildlife I would be using high ISO for higher shutter speed. For landscape, I will be at base ISO or second base ISO and slow shutter speed. For Moon at 800mm 60MP the 1/13s is enough to avoid motion blur from Moon movement.
For wildlife, I think Series 3 would be enough and it would allow easier movement with a bit lighter weight.
I thought about getting Series 5 for the landscape use, but then it would mean I would probably add Series 3 to have something between 1 Traveler and 5 Systematic. The Series 4 is compromise, but I think it is good one after testing it.
EB-1 wrote:
I usually use a full gimbal head for wildlife, either on a 3 series Systemic with a RRS leveling base, 2 series RRS or some kind of Leofoto that a bit less rigid but fine for a 600/4 prime with 1.4x for wildlife. I have a BH-55 and also the Markins Q20i with the BV plate that turns it into a semi-gimbal. I do near gigapixel images with a Canon 100-500 lens on the BH-55 with 3 series legs and a Wimberly Sidekick for multi-row if needed. The longest lens I use on the a7rV is the 200-600, usually with the Jobu Jr.3 Dlx for wildlife, not landscapes. ...Show more →
So you have both Q20i and BH-55, and you choose the BH-55 for gigapixel landscapes. Are there any specific reasons why you prefer BH-55 for that? I understand that sometimes it is hard to articulate why one thing is preferred over the other. Numbers like stiffness and weight tell me Q20i is better in both, but that is not the whole story. I haven't handled any of them, you own both.
EB-1 wrote:
I only used the Flexshooter a few times and it's not my favorite for landscape, and just OK for wildlife.
At least you can get service in Europe. Some of them have problems loosening internally and have to sent back there.
I have noticed in a discussion or video that some of the problems where Flexshooter is not locking fully can be fixed with Allen key (inserted through big ball lever).
EB-1 wrote:
I am curious if you are using the OS/IBIS with those tests mentioned above? I find that using a lens with stabilization and a camera with IBIS together produces a high degree of image stabilization on a tripod, better than even a strong tripod and solid head without it most of the time.
EBH
I did have stabilization turned off in my test. I generally prefer it to be turned of for landscapes. Sometimes I take bracketed shots or sequences for multi-image processing so any shifts in view are not desired. Some lenses stabilize well, but distortion is slightly different at pixel level so it is harder to do multiple image processing. Some lenses with stabilization turned on can detect vibration on tripod and while they trying to compensate, they add to it through resonation. Last year when I was shooting Moonset with Tamron 50-400, it was doing some strong double image until I noticed to turn off vibration. I was never able to reproduce that so that was one off. It might be related to my fall minutes earlier (while the lens and camera was in a padded backpack). Here is a video from that trip (Czech voice, proper English subtitles available) (set the quality to 4k even on lower resolution otherwise it is too compressed).
But you gave me an idea: for manual focus, it could beneficial even though for actual capture I would turn it off. I will re-try my tests with and without stabilization.
p.1 #4 · New tripod legs in search for a new head (800mm telephoto landscapes + some wildlife)
The main thing I like about the BH-55 is the panning base which has a good degree of vicous damping and the drag can be controlled well. Therefore I can pan without fully loosening and tightening. That's important when shooting >1000 frames (including focus bracketing) quickly. The 2.5° increments are good for teles where I can pan with multiples or fractions fractions of that and not need to check the image.
For maximum stability consider a 2-point support system, either with the camera and lens collar or with the lens collar and a support under the front part of the lens. IIRC Kirk or RRS make such a setup to support the lens.
After selecting a sturdy support system I still suggest that you test with IS on to see what improvements it makes. At slow shutter speeds I could not use the longer lenses as effectively without it.
p.1 #5 · New tripod legs in search for a new head (800mm telephoto landscapes + some wildlife)
EB-1 wrote:
The main thing I like about the BH-55 is the panning base which has a good degree of vicous damping and the drag can be controlled well. Therefore I can pan without fully loosening and tightening. That's important when shooting >1000 frames (including focus bracketing) quickly. The 2.5° increments are good for teles where I can pan with multiples or fractions fractions of that and not need to check the image.
EB-1 wrote:
For maximum stability consider a 2-point support system, either with the camera and lens collar or with the lens collar and a support under the front part of the lens. IIRC Kirk or RRS make such a setup to support the lens.
I am aware of this, though I have not tried any solution yet. But I will try something at least some simple DIY solution.
EB-1 wrote:
After selecting a sturdy support system I still suggest that you test with IS on to see what improvements it makes. At slow shutter speeds I could not use the longer lenses as effectively without it.
p.1 #6 · New tripod legs in search for a new head (800mm telephoto landscapes + some wildlife)
I used a heavy-metal 800mm supertele on a ball head, and it was nightmare city for handling. Very quickly I acquired the standard Wimberley WH-200 and a long lens plate for critical balance. This rig is heavy but can be moved with a pinky finger, and locks down solidly for blur-free imaging at any shutter speed. I also own the GT4533LS which is a nice match, and solid as the Rock of Gilbraltar.
p.1 #7 · New tripod legs in search for a new head (800mm telephoto landscapes + some wildlife)
I have tested both tripods and their heads again, this time with both OSS off and on.
GK100T with its GH1382TQD (with center column not extended): manual focusing unusable with OSS off, but with OSS on it was a very big improvement, it was usable.
GT4543LS (with only 3 sections used, about same height as GK100T in this test): manual focusing usable with OSS off, with OSS on slight improvement.
I did also try swapping heads and measuring time how long it takes for vibrations stop after touch. They have very unmatched bases with tripods when swapped. I did have a bit trouble to remove GH1382TQD from big tripod as its pan lock is not very strong and it was slipping while I tried to unscrew it.
I did have OSS off, I was touching top of camera and side of camera and measuring time by counting (so not very precise).
GK100T with its GH1382TQD: 5-6s top touch, 6-7s side touch.
GK100T with K-30x: 3-4s top touch, 4-5s side touch, but focusing with OSS off was not noticeably better.
GT4543LS with K-30x: 1s top touch, 1.5s side touch.
GT4543LS with GH1382TQD: 2-3s top touch, 3s side touch.
p.1 #8 · New tripod legs in search for a new head (800mm telephoto landscapes + some wildlife)
jtra wrote:
Hi,
<snip>
Leofoto has everything. No idea how good it is. I have few pano clamps and they are ok.
I have not investigated fluid heads much. I think the good ones for 400-800 are too heavy, but maybe I should look at some?
Any tips for ballheads to investigate? Do you have a ballhead that works great in off-center gimbal mode?
I have tried some parts from Leofoto, specifically their geared tripod head and the geared panning adapter, and found it to be nowhere good enough for much anything more than a small camera and small lens. I sent the items back.
Do note that this head, and the original that they copied, the Arca Swiss D4, have the geared panning on the top, which is useless unless the panning part is level.
The Arca D4 WILL absolutely lock down and be unmovable. The Leophoto knockoff did not, and the claimed weight rating is significantly less.
Another geared head, the Manfrotto 405, has the panning on the bottom, so if another part of it is tilted, that remains constant.
I have given up on ballheads. They do not have precise adjustment and do not always lock down.
If I was looking today, the Pro Media Gear BH1 looks interesting. I am close enough to the manufacturer that I could go try before I buy. I do not know if they will export- or what taxes you would pay.
K&F Concept has a decent geared tripod head, and it is way smaller than the Manfrotto 405. It needs a spacer (like Manfrotto 120-38) to allow more downward angle on a larger tripod.
I am using a gimbal head more and more- Pro Media Gear GKJr Katana. The only issue is that it doesn't fully lock down, but the effort to move it is considerable. The C&F Concepts gimbal I had did the same "issue", but the PMG is a much better product. I do not know if there is a gimbal head that will lock down to the point where it is immovable.
I have an older tripod from Really Right Stuff, and if there is a breeze that's over about 8 mph, the thing resonates and long exposures are an issue. My Ries wood tripod does not do this so easily, but it is much heavier and does not deploy so easily. Carbon fiber tripods with larger diameter tubes have come out since I bought the RRS, and I don't know if it would make an appreciable difference.
p.1 #9 · New tripod legs in search for a new head (800mm telephoto landscapes + some wildlife)
danski0224 wrote:
I have tried some parts from Leofoto, specifically their geared tripod head and the geared panning adapter, and found it to be nowhere good enough for much anything more than a small camera and small lens. I sent the items back.
Do note that this head, and the original that they copied, the Arca Swiss D4, have the geared panning on the top, which is useless unless the panning part is level.
The Arca D4 WILL absolutely lock down and be unmovable. The Leophoto knockoff did not, and the claimed weight rating is significantly less.
Another geared head, the Manfrotto 405, has the panning on the bottom, so if another part of it is tilted, that remains constant. ...Show more →
Thank you for feedback.
danski0224 wrote:
I have given up on ballheads. They do not have precise adjustment and do not always lock down.
If I was looking today, the Pro Media Gear BH1 looks interesting. I am close enough to the manufacturer that I could go try before I buy. I do not know if they will export- or what taxes you would pay.
K&F Concept has a decent geared tripod head, and it is way smaller than the Manfrotto 405. It needs a spacer (like Manfrotto 120-38) to allow more downward angle on a larger tripod.
I am using a gimbal head more and more- Pro Media Gear GKJr Katana. The only issue is that it doesn't fully lock down, but the effort to move it is considerable. The C&F Concepts gimbal I had did the same "issue", but the PMG is a much better product. I do not know if there is a gimbal head that will lock down to the point where it is immovable.
I have an older tripod from Really Right Stuff, and if there is a breeze that's over about 8 mph, the thing resonates and long exposures are an issue. My Ries wood tripod does not do this so easily, but it is much heavier and does not deploy so easily. Carbon fiber tripods with larger diameter tubes have come out since I bought the RRS, and I don't know if it would make an appreciable difference. ...Show more →
I have looked up Zenelli gimbals. In Europe the price is not outrageous compared to importing better US products (RRS, PMG). I like the weight, but perhaps still size is big. I will consider it in future if don't like Flexshooter.
I have ordered Flexshooter Pro and Markins Q20i+BV attachment.
I will report back how they measure or maybe do a comparison video on my channel.
