p.1 #1 · LRC/PS: Using AI Denoise and Super Res on same file?
I have a hummingbird image that I REALLY like and would like to print on metal (dye sub; 24" x 16"). There are a few issues that have come together to be a problem. The first is the image was shot on the R5 but in crop mode and the image needed to be cropped in post a bit as well. Also, in order to get enough shutter speed (1/3200) and depth (f/9), the image was shot at 10,000 ISO.
The image cleaned up incredibly well with AI Denoise. Then I spent a substantial amount of time removing distractions and otherwise getting the image to exactly where I wanted it. When preparing the image for print, I realized that, at 24" x 16", the image had a DPI of 97.208. Of course, Super Resolution came to mind. It would easily get the file to a resolution ideal for printing. However, in the Detail panel, Super Resolution is greyed out and has the information icon next to it. Hovering over that icon reveals the message "currently unavailable when Denoise is selected."
I should note that I am using LRC on subscription and (I believe) I am using the most current version - 14.4 (excluding the one just released). So no DNG file created by Denoise.
I wondered if I could turn off Denoise, run Super Res then run Denoise but no - same informational message; just flipped (can't run Denoise when Super Res is selected). I found a note that said "It’s a known constraint because both are computationally “enhance” operations and Lightroom doesn’t chain them."
So i reactivated Denoise and explored the possibility of PS allowing Super Res to run on the TIF file. Nope. Then I found a note indicating that the "Camera Raw Filter inside Photoshop is not the same as opening the image directly in Adobe Camera Raw." so I tried that:
"Open TIFF in Photoshop → Camera Raw
Use File → Open As… → Camera Raw on the TIFF you exported.
Now you can use Enhance → Super Resolution in ACR."
but I get a message that says "could not open "_MG6709.tif" because it is not a valid photoshop document". I tried multiple TIFF files but all had the same message.
Further research found this:
"Adobe Camera Raw cannot “Open As → Camera Raw” for most TIFFs that are already processed by Lightroom/denoise. That’s a subtle but important limitation. TIFFs coming out of Lightroom Classic are fully rendered, not raw sensor data, and ACR can only fully open certain TIFFs (usually 8-bit or 16-bit uncompressed TIFFs that it considers raw-compatible). Once Lightroom applies denoise, the exported TIFF is considered “non-raw,” so ACR’s Enhance → Super Resolution is disabled in this workflow."
From what I can find, PS interpolation seems to be MY only option: "Go to Image → Image Size, choose Resample → Preserve Details 2.0" ("This is similar in quality to Super Resolution, though slightly less detail-enhancing.")
I will be having the printing done by Pictorem. They describe their upscaling option - Image Amplify - as "advanced upscaling technology" that "INTELLIGENTLY [my emphasis] increases resolution while refining detail and contrast". This seems to imply some sort of AI upscaling.
So my three questions are:
1. Is there ANY way I can get AI scaling on this file in LRC/PS/ACR?
2. For anybody who has done printing with Pictorem, thoughts on how good their Image Amplify upscaling is?
3. I know Super Res (AI based) increases resolution 4x. If Pictorem upscaling is only interpolation, how much interpolation still produces "very good" IQ? If only up to say double, is 200DPI enough for a quality dye sub print?
Please feel free to answer one, two or all three questions, as able and inclined.
p.1 #3 · LRC/PS: Using AI Denoise and Super Res on same file?
Just to clarify, are you suggesting I take the exported TIFF and re-import it into LRC then apply Photo -> Enhance -> Super Resolution?
If I try with the TIFF already in LRC and do Photo -> Enhance, it tells me that "The Enhance features have been moved to the Detail panel. ...:"; the Detail panel being where I can't run Super Resolution.
p.1 #8 · LRC/PS: Using AI Denoise and Super Res on same file?
RoamingScott wrote:
You of all people would know
Just like Roaming Troll, I wouldn't know without seeing the image. Maybe crawl back under your rock and learn the difference between 'must be' and 'is'.
p.1 #9 · LRC/PS: Using AI Denoise and Super Res on same file?
Thanks to all who posted (mostly, ).
The steps in the video mcbroomf posted certainly seems straight-forward. Looking on youtube, I see it is eight months old. That was the problem I encountered when trying to figure this out. I found many "solutions" but none worked because of the changes Adobe kept making to how the Detail processes work (the interplay of Denoise, Raw Detail and Super Resolution, the DNG file it creates (or, created), the modification to the TIFF, the pipeline flow (both Denoise and Super Resolution running Raw Detail, which was reported as the reason one couldn't run both on the same file).
Next time I need to run both I will definitely try the technique in the video. I say next time because after an hour+ of fooling around with this further after posting, I got it to work. I opened the file as a smart object in PS and after playing with this approach a bit, I got it to work. One of the bigger problems I encountered was the reintroduction of noise. I don't like the plasticky look of an over-denoised photo, so I generally denoise to leave just a hint of grain (50 for this image). However, the upscaling made noise noticeable again. After a few iterations, I found increasing the denoise to 70 before opening in PS did the trick.
I needed to do a a fair bit of PP on it because while the hummer, plant stem and flower were excellent and beautiful, there was a few crossing stems in the background that I wanted to remove for a clean background. As I thought I might want to print the image, I was meticulous in the removal of these background stems and flowers.
p.1 #10 · LRC/PS: Using AI Denoise and Super Res on same file?
EverLearning wrote:
Just to clarify, are you suggesting I take the exported TIFF and re-import it into LRC then apply Photo -> Enhance -> Super Resolution?
If I try with the TIFF already in LRC and do Photo -> Enhance, it tells me that "The Enhance features have been moved to the Detail panel. ...:"; the Detail panel being where I can't run Super Resolution.
p.1 #11 · LRC/PS: Using AI Denoise and Super Res on same file?
EverLearning wrote:
Thanks to all who posted (mostly, ).
The steps in the video mcbroomf posted certainly seems straight-forward. Looking on youtube, I see it is eight months old. That was the problem I encountered when trying to figure this out. I found many "solutions" but none worked because of the changes Adobe kept making to how the Detail processes work (the interplay of Denoise, Raw Detail and Super Resolution, the DNG file it creates (or, created), the modification to the TIFF, the pipeline flow (both Denoise and Super Resolution running Raw Detail, which was reported as the reason one couldn't run both on the same file).
Next time I need to run both I will definitely try the technique in the video. I say next time because after an hour+ of fooling around with this further after posting, I got it to work. I opened the file as a smart object in PS and after playing with this approach a bit, I got it to work. One of the bigger problems I encountered was the reintroduction of noise. I don't like the plasticky look of an over-denoised photo, so I generally denoise to leave just a hint of grain (50 for this image). However, the upscaling made noise noticeable again. After a few iterations, I found increasing the denoise to 70 before opening in PS did the trick.
I needed to do a a fair bit of PP on it because while the hummer, plant stem and flower were excellent and beautiful, there was a few crossing stems in the background that I wanted to remove for a clean background. As I thought I might want to print the image, I was meticulous in the removal of these background stems and flowers....Show more →
I like denoise better in LR, and I like upressing better in PS. I have no idea why certain shared tech like this works better in one or the other...same with Generative Fill...it works FAR better in PS even though LR should be using the same version of Firefly now.
Basically get your noise and colors to your liking and then take it in to PS for upressing.
I had the membership for a number of years but found its value greatly diminished as the Critique forum activity/feedback diminished. It was value decision rather than an affordability decision. I think wading through the preponderance of ads helps support the site. Would it really kill you not to be so prickly all the time?
p.1 #16 · LRC/PS: Using AI Denoise and Super Res on same file?
I would guess that Adobe has the ability to use both operations on the same file, but the update is sitting on the shelf waiting for a future upgrade. For now I will make using Denoise the priority and find other solutions for upscaling. Denoise just works so well.
