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Leica 50 summilux, close focus vs nokton 1.0

  
 
RustyBug
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p.2 #1 · Leica 50 summilux, close focus vs nokton 1.0


It would be interesting to see a comparison of where BOTH lenses are stopped down a bit ... e.g. f/2 - f/4.

In that regard, the shape of the blades could be revealed from each lens (for those in the look at bokeh balls interest). While we all understand that WO, would be most circular (smooth cat-eye, etc.) vs. angular polygons of a lens stopped down ... seeing how much "ninja star" is in the Lux vs. the Nok could be an interesting reveal ... and also, where the "return" to circular shapes out, as stopping down.

Maybe not a full blown, all apertures, but I'd be curious to see a couple where they are BOTH stopped down to reveal blade shapes ... distractions of ninja, vs. onion vs. poly, etc. A comp of WO vs. stopped down doesn't seem like a good "comp" when it comes to evaluating blade shapes (albeit, understanding why the EV comp for other IQ at EV limits of Lux).


As to the comment about "flat" ... the colors of the Nok seem more muted to me, too.



Mar 01, 2026 at 10:42 AM
Desmolicious
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p.2 #2 · Leica 50 summilux, close focus vs nokton 1.0


vashadobri wrote:
Just from the personal perspective of a cinematographer...
In the example above, the Nocton shows a not at all negligible more relief image:
- The Sumilux image is pretty/very saturated and contrasty, and is therefore less flexible in terms of further postprocessing.
- Most importantly.. the relationship between the object (decoration) in focus and the background in the right corner (from the viewer's perspective) has a noticeably greater depth with the Nocton than with the Sumilux, whose overall image is more flat, i.e. not as perspectively layered.
- The background blur is smoother with the Nocton.
- In the upper left corner of the image,
...Show more

I’m not sure how you can judge which lens is able to allow for more pp because these two images already have had pp applied to Jorge’s taste. Which is very nice IMO. But is not the RAW starting point to make the decision.

And every lens has its own characteristics - even those of the same brand and type. So with each lens you’d have to learn that and adjust to suit. Whether that is with initial exposure or whatever pp steps are done.

My standards are far lower than that. i’m just happy if the shot is in focus….



Mar 01, 2026 at 10:58 AM
RustyRus
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p.2 #3 · Leica 50 summilux, close focus vs nokton 1.0


Jorge Torralba wrote:
puting aside the boke balls, which on the Leica show onion rings, I would say so far the over all images between the two lenses seem fairly comparable. Not one lens in particular stands out as better than the other. They both seem to produce wonderful images.

As far as davidsees comments regarding the nokton "flat as hell" i would disagree. I just don't see it. For me at this point the only advantage the lux has over the Nokton is purely in size.

Now the question for myself is. What do I do? I dont need 3 50's so
...Show more

I am not really sure what you are trying to get out of this exercise- If its to show both lenses are great, I would 100% agree with you.

If we are talking about images just at 1.4- I would pick the Lux EVERYTIME over the Nokton to shoot at 1.4- It’s not even a close experiment. I don’t want the size of a 1.0 lens and ninja stars in my picture-

Do you want an f/1 lens? Great your winner is pretty easy-

If you want to compare 1.4 lenses, there are much better choices vs the one you are showing here. Zeiss, Thypoch, Voigtlander etc all make much better options than the comparing the Nokton f/1 vs the Summilux-





Edited on Mar 01, 2026 at 01:37 PM · View previous versions



Mar 01, 2026 at 11:11 AM
rscheffler
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p.2 #4 · Leica 50 summilux, close focus vs nokton 1.0


Jorge Torralba wrote:
50 Nokton
50 Lux
50 Apo Lanthar


Nokton if you want maximum wide open bokeh effect. Floating element means near distance performance is still very good. Treatment of aspherical surface appears to be better than the Lux, meaning little or no onion ring bokeh. Trade off is poor LoCA performance compared to the other two. From the samples I've seen, might also be subject to mid zone sharpness drop at some distances.

Lux is the hybrid of the other two. Faster than the Lanthar. Nearly APO corrected for LoCA, therefore better than the Nokton but slightly worse than the Lanthar. 'Proper' Leica ergonomics. Downside is mid zone performance at wider apertures and ninja-blade bokeh of the first version (though not relevant here). Average flare resistance is also a thing.

Lanthar if you want maximum across-frame sharpness from wide open and best LoCA correction. Excellent flare resistance. Large for an M-mount 50/2.

I'm a long-time 50 Lux ASPH v1 user. It's not a perfect lens and there are times I'm frustrated with its flaws. I have long considered replacing it with the APO Lanthar. Or the VM 50/1.2. But I haven't because it is a versatile all-rounder for my needs. And sometimes I can use its flaws, such as backlight veiling flare, for beneficial creative effect. Or I otherwise work around them, such as its relatively poor mid zone performance in the f/2.8 range.

Realistically for a 50/2 lens like the APO Lanthar, I'd probably still use it mostly stopped down where virtually any 50 will be excellent. So instead I got the much smaller VM 50/2.2.

The 50/1.0 is a lens I would instead buy in a mirrorless system mount rather than M because in part I feel its size better suits the ergonomics of those system cameras. And with Canon RF or Nikon Z, I'd be able to take advantage of the PD-derived manual focus assist feature of each respective system while also benefitting from proper lens optimization for each system's sensor stack specifications, rather than adapting the M version. Both the RF and Z versions can be currently bought in Japan for under USD 1100, pre-tax.



Mar 01, 2026 at 01:11 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.2 #5 · Leica 50 summilux, close focus vs nokton 1.0


Thanks for the comparisons. A few thoughts.

The CV 50/1 Nokton really shows its strength in blur amount when the background is far from the focused subject. If the background is close, f/1.0 and f/1.4 will look pretty similar..

I also agree that comparing an f/1 to an f/1.4 lens at f/1.4 in terms of bokeh will naturally favor the f/1.4 lens since there are no aperture blades interfering with the highlight rendering.

One more thing, any color correction between lenses really needs to be consistent. Differences there can change the perception quite a bit. In some of your samples, the post-processing makes the colors look noticeably different.

The Leica 50/1.4 Lux was definitely ahead of its time with color error correction, FLE, and overall performance. Very few lenses match it. The closest I've seen is the Thypoch 50/1.4 Aspherical, followed by the CV 50/1.2 Nokton, just without FLE.



Mar 01, 2026 at 01:35 PM
rscheffler
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p.2 #6 · Leica 50 summilux, close focus vs nokton 1.0


Fred Miranda wrote:
One more thing, any color correction between lenses really needs to be consistent. Differences there can change the perception quite a bit. In some of your samples, the post-processing makes the colors look noticeably different.


The question in my mind: is the obvious color difference between the two lenses in the sample images due to post production, or just how each lens handled the scene?

On a first impressions basis of these images, I hands-down prefer the Lux ASPH.



Mar 01, 2026 at 01:52 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.2 #7 · Leica 50 summilux, close focus vs nokton 1.0


rscheffler wrote:
The question in my mind: is the obvious color difference between the two lenses in the sample images due to post production, or just how each lens handled the scene?

On a first impressions basis of these images, I hands-down prefer the Lux ASPH.


That is why presenting it this way feels confusing. To me, the difference isn't really the lens...it's just different post-processing.



Mar 01, 2026 at 01:58 PM
RustyBug
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p.2 #8 · Leica 50 summilux, close focus vs nokton 1.0


Fred Miranda wrote:
That is why presenting it this way feels confusing. To me, the difference isn't really the lens...it's just different post-processing.


Is it different post-processing to a "final" point ... or, is it the difference in "starting" point of the lens, with similar post processing amounts (or auto, etc.) applied?

Not sure I followed where Jorge indicated the processing approach for the different images. Since he didn't specify that he dialed them in individually to taste, I was assuming that the applied processing would be equitable ... and the difference was due to the starting point of the raw / lens file, and then the amplification of the difference via PP.

That said, I would imagine one could use PP to bring them closer together ... but, as presented, the Voigt seems flatter, imo. Jorge maybe can explain the underlying process he used / didn't use so we can discern if it is the PP or the lens that is the driver of the difference we are seeing.



Mar 01, 2026 at 02:20 PM
Jorge Torralba
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p.2 #9 · Leica 50 summilux, close focus vs nokton 1.0


Fred, I sent you a PM in case you want the dng files you can do with them what you like


I used the same PP on both files. I copied corrections from one and applied to the other. Maybe, I adjusted exposure a bit and saturation to make the similar biut that was it.

Oh, I used DXO photo lab 9


Edited on Mar 01, 2026 at 02:41 PM · View previous versions



Mar 01, 2026 at 02:39 PM
RexGig0
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p.2 #10 · Leica 50 summilux, close focus vs nokton 1.0


Lovely images, Jorge!

Both lenses make lovely images. My Summilux version is ASPH, pre-II, the ~2004 optical formula and aperture blades, acquired in 2018, my first M-mount lens. I added the Nokton f/1 Aspherical in 2022 to enable more light to reach the sensors of my M cameras, with their 2015 and 2017 technology, especially the 246 Monochrom. Of course, I paid careful attention to comparison images, posted here at FM, and elsewhere. I simply liked the Nokton images, compared to images shot with the Noctilux 0.95. Plus, the Nolkton was the physically smaller and lighter option, compared to the Noctilux 0.95 and whatever now-dis-remembered Chinese options were extant, at the time.

I will always prefer the Summilux ASPH, as it was the lens that I used to fall in love with the Leica M system, which may have saved me from quitting photography, altogether, as I needed an "antidote" to the stress and trauma of seven years of forensic/evidentiary/crime scene photography. (The hardest part is photographing living, breathing, traumatized victims, at very close range, which can be seen as "action macro.")

Background blur is not the be-all and end-all of my shooting, but the Summilux-M ASPH is my gold standard for background blur.

Close-Focus? Well, as this requires use of Visoflex/Live View, anyway, it is simple enough to install my Leica Macro Adapter M 14652, which I acquired pre-owned, for considerably less than its new price. Or, the Summicron-M 75mm ASPH has the Maximum Magnification spec to do, at its MFD of 0.7m, about that the Close-Focus 50 ASPH II does at its MFD. So, that leaves the different aperture blade configuration, which may or may not become a reason to acquire the 50 ASPH II.

To be clear, none of this is being argumentative.



Mar 01, 2026 at 02:40 PM
 


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Jorge Torralba
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p.2 #11 · Leica 50 summilux, close focus vs nokton 1.0


this all started as a how well do these two lenses perform. It wasn't a one lens is better than the other quest. In the end, what i really should have done is post both images without detailing what lens was used. and ask the community which they preferred. Not which was better. Because in my opinion one is not better than the other as far as optical performance goes. I am really going to date my self here. But this is not like a nikon 400mm vs Spiratone 400mm sided by side. In that case the difference would be obvious.


Mar 01, 2026 at 02:46 PM
Surfnsun
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p.2 #12 · Leica 50 summilux, close focus vs nokton 1.0


Don't worry about it. Artists are never satisfied.

Jorge Torralba wrote:
this all started as a how well do these two lenses perform. It wasn't a one lens is better than the other quest. In the end, what i really should have done is post both images without detailing what lens was used. and ask the community which they preferred. Not which was better. Because in my opinion one is not better than the other as far as optical performance goes. I am really going to date my self here. But this is not like a nikon 400mm vs Spiratone 400mm sided by side. In that case the difference would
...Show more



Mar 01, 2026 at 02:49 PM
philip_pj
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p.2 #13 · Leica 50 summilux, close focus vs nokton 1.0


Peter Karbe said in the recent video posted (from 2023) color differences is due to the glasses used, and you can sometimes see common temps across whole ranges. And coatings too, if you look at the cine lens field. Here, the Nokton is a lovely and subtle lens, and it uses no APD glass, just two asph elements, one at each end. The Summilux is legendary, well known.




Mar 01, 2026 at 02:51 PM
RustyBug
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p.2 #14 · Leica 50 summilux, close focus vs nokton 1.0


Jorge Torralba wrote:
this all started as a how well do these two lenses perform. It wasn't a one lens is better than the other quest. In the end, what i really should have done is post both images without detailing what lens was used. and ask the community which they preferred. Not which was better. Because in my opinion one is not better than the other as far as optical performance goes. I am really going to date my self here. But this is not like a nikon 400mm vs Spiratone 400mm sided by side. In that case the difference would
...Show more

When it comes to optics ... "better" is often a situation for "better at what". Which, really is a difference, since you could have inverse perspectives. Better are rendering saturated colors vs. better at rendering natural colors ... e.g. Kodachrome vs. Ektachrome. Better at being high contrast vs. better at rendering low contrast. Better at rendering blue / green vs. better at rendering warm tones ... e.g. Fujichrome / Velvia vs. Kodachrome.

Some folks think "punchy" color is better. Others think "natural" is better. Some think warm is better, others think cool is better. ... so, yeah ... "better" can be tricky. Different, not necessarily "better".

Now, about that Spiratone ...



Just as a point of reference ...
https://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/images/3/3a/Puts-2002-M-lenses.pdf

Pg. 18 speaks about color diff's in different Leica lenses. It's a bit dated, and doesn't include non-Leica, but you get the gist. Somewhat in line historically with Philip's point about glass choice influence color, I reckon ... quite a while before Karbe's 2023 comment.





Edited on Mar 01, 2026 at 03:20 PM · View previous versions



Mar 01, 2026 at 03:10 PM
Jorge Torralba
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p.2 #15 · Leica 50 summilux, close focus vs nokton 1.0


RustyBug wrote:
[
Now, about that Spiratone ...


I actually bought one when I was in high school. I think it was less than $50.00




Mar 01, 2026 at 03:19 PM
RustyBug
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p.2 #16 · Leica 50 summilux, close focus vs nokton 1.0


Jorge Torralba wrote:
I actually bought one when I was in high school. I think it was less than $50.00



Young and broke ... yeah, we did what we could back then. Oh, wait ... still are, just not so young, these days.



Mar 01, 2026 at 03:21 PM
vashadobri
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p.2 #17 · Leica 50 summilux, close focus vs nokton 1.0


Desmolicious wrote:
I’m not sure how you can judge which lens is able to allow for more pp because these two images already have had pp applied to Jorge’s taste. Which is very nice IMO. But is not the RAW starting point to make the decision.

And every lens has its own characteristics - even those of the same brand and type. So with each lens you’d have to learn that and adjust to suit. Whether that is with initial exposure or whatever pp steps are done.

My standards are far lower than that. i’m just happy if the shot is in focus….


Hi, thanks for the comment, sorry for the little clarification - which I suggest you to skip because it's undoubtedly boring

First of all, I didn't understand it that way - that the above images had previously undergone different processing? They were presented next to each other with identical content - so it makes sense to me that the OP wasn't asking for an assessment of his PP skills, but a comment on a comparison under equal conditions. Or, maybe I'm wrong (which is tragically more common than rare when it comes to me).

Secondly, of course it is implied (as I explicitly stated - "judging by the images") - that this is simply a light-hearted and entertaining review of what the OP offered and asked... in that sense, the terms Nocton and Sumilux are shorthand labels for the given images, so as not to sound too scrupulous-.sophisticated, for example more precisely: "The image that the OP stated was made with a Nocton/Sumilux lens, etc."

Anyway and therefore - in the first two examples, guided solely by my subjective preferences and certainly nitpicking

1. The images that the OP stated were made with a Nocton lens show, in my opinion, a calmer background blur and, more importantly, a more pronounced spatial differentiation - in other words, the objects in the background appear further away, or, the spatial layers are more spatially separated. For me personally (and generally always in the cinematographic craft) realistic perspective depth of the frame is the most important narrative asset.
2. The images that the OP stated were made with a Sumilux lens are obviously more tonally saturated and contrasting, therefore usually more vivid-attractive. The images that the OP stated were made with a Nocton lens, on the other hand, avoiding punchy vivid colorization, retain a little more tonal separation and hypothetically leave more room for further manipulation.
3. The third example doesn't tell me anything - the selected shot has no perspective challenge, the examples contain reflections that are always vulnerable at a not quite identical angle (as an offer), it seems that it was chosen only to point out a deviation of blades-game that is undoubtedly somewhat repulsive in the image that the OP stated was made with a Nocton lens.




Mar 01, 2026 at 05:12 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.2 #18 · Leica 50 summilux, close focus vs nokton 1.0


Jorge Torralba wrote:
Fred, I sent you a PM in case you want the dng files you can do with them what you like

I used the same PP on both files. I copied corrections from one and applied to the other. Maybe, I adjusted exposure a bit and saturation to make the similar biut that was it.

Oh, I used DXO photo lab 9


Jorge,

Thanks for sending the DNG files for the images in this post:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1933922/0#16995196

The comparison above looks very close in post processing, I'm referring to the sets you shared on page 1 of the thread. This is not a criticism of your test at all, it just makes it a bit harder for some people to distinguish other aspects of the rendering.



Mar 01, 2026 at 05:15 PM
Jorge Torralba
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p.2 #19 · Leica 50 summilux, close focus vs nokton 1.0


ok fred, some more files in the same location. feel free to process how you like.


Mar 01, 2026 at 08:22 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.2 #20 · Leica 50 summilux, close focus vs nokton 1.0


Jorge Torralba wrote:
ok fred, some more files in the same location. feel free to process how you like.


Thank you for sending those. I added the DNG files to Lightroom and applied only the default Adobe Standard profile. As you can see, their color and tonality are very consistent. This is what I was referring to in your example on this post, where the colors and tone shifted quite a bit. https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1933922/0#16994081

With the setup below, it's much easier to compare them accurately. It doesn't appear that a tripod was used, and the distance to the focused subject may have changed between shots, which can also affect rendering.

In this order from the files you sent me:

Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton at f/1
Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton at f/1.4
Leica 50mm f/1.4 Summilux ASPH at f/1.4





Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton at f/1







Voigtlander 50mm f/1 Nokton at f/1.4







Leica 50mm f/1.4 Summilux ASPH at f/1.4




Mar 01, 2026 at 08:42 PM
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