Steve Spencer wrote:
The aperture shape on the 28 APO aren't round at any aperture except f/2, but the twelve blades make the polygons somewhat hard to see and of course the size of the bokeh balls matters and they get bigger as the aperture is bigger and you focus closer. I find I never notice the polygons of the CV 28 f/1.5 even at f/2 as the bokeh circles are just too small to see the shapes unless you zoom way in. I don't shoot that lens close enough for the bokeh circles to ever get that big and they would be even smaller with the 28 APO.
I have thought a lot about the aperture shape, probably much too much, as I noticed Cosina has been so variable on this issue. My favorite aperture shape for Cosina lenses is the M mount 90 f/2.8 APO, it is round at f/2.8, f/4, and f/22. So when shooting portraits you can get nice round balls at wider apertures but sunstars at narrower apertures, but can still avoid them at f/22 if it was important to you to avoid them. This shape works because I prefer the round aperture for portraits and that is available through f/4 where I would shoot almost all my portriats, and I prefer having sunstars for most of my stopped down shooting. The 50 f/2 APO, for Sony and Nikon (but not M) mounts is quite similar with round apertures at f/2, f/2.8, and f/16. I am less of a fan of the aperture shape of the 50 f/2 APO on the Leica M mount lens (which is the same aa the 35 f/2 APO on all mounts) with round apertures at f/2, f/2.8, f/5.6, and f/16 as you can't get good sunstars until you stop down pretty far. All the other CV lenses have either 10 or 12 blades that have a round aperture only at the widest. I think futzing with the aperture shape was something Cosina tried but in the end it looks like they don't think it was that good of an idea.
The alternative is making the aperture shape round at all apertures and Voigtlander doesn't do that with any of their own current offerings, but as Brad says they do with the new Zeiss Otus ML lenses. They also did that with all the Zeiss classic, Milvus, and the original Otus lenses. I prefer the round shape at all apertures for portraits and especially for macro lenses as I find for macro the bokeh balls can often be very large and the shapes quite noticeable. Ideally for me a lens would have round bokeh balls up to f/8 and good sunstars starting at f/8. One of the strengths of the Otus ML lenses, for my tastes, is they basically achieve that. ...Show more →
It looks round enough to me when I close it down, but I guess it could be completely straight. It's very small.
[The Otus 28mm uses nine rounded blades, and the CV 28/1.5 and 28/2 APO both use 12 blades. Not bad, and lens design decisions can 'cover' for many polygonal expressions.]
This seems like a good place to mention Zeiss's new lens range - the Aatmas. These are rental lenses, costing around $US21,000 each. The lenses are full-frame, T1.5 (f1.4) and use 16 blade irises, so it seems Zeiss have settled on that particular configuration, for their high-end offerings at least.
You would think they would learn, but people dislike the lessons of the past - they always know better. But some of us are not young enough to know everything. These Aatma lenses are designed to replicate the character of the famous Super Speeds, the (leaded) lenses that put Zeiss on the cine map back in the 70s-80s.
You know what else shared that same look? Contax Yashica series lenses. But really, many lenses from the 70s to 90s are fabulous.
Another, maybe subversive cultural element, is the name. Aatma is well known to students of Vedic mythology, which incidentally underlies much of Abramanic religious belief systems. Aatma is the undying soul of each of us. Leica's quite similar vintage range - Thalia - refers to a muse, and one of the three Greek Graces (Greek 'Thaleia'). Why is it important?
Visual literacy, in a nutshell. The two most significant names in cine/photographic lenses are literally and figuratively returning to the past as they head into the future, and they are doing this with their latest high-end ranges.
It's especially important for Zeiss, whose Supreme Primes have been (correctly) touted as the technical masterpieces they are, but they leave many cinematographers cold with their APO-style characteristics of ultra sharpness, skin treatment, fast roll-offs and massive bokeh walls. Design staff now can look for the optimal blend of the two extremes in rendering styles.
The Aatmas feature 'designer aberrations' in the form of field curvature, spherical aberration, a little CA and inoffensive bright ring bokeh. 'Skin especially is handled very differently to Zeiss's other current cinema lenses.' 'Focus roll-off is much smoother and subtler than other modern lenses..' and on my favourite issue: 'soft rolls to more defined out-of-focus elements'. The design meetings would have been entertaining.
In the ages long battle between technology and beauty, I told you we would win - the former must serve the latter. Jake from CVP is very happy, and so are the (very aware) commenters:
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Today Cosina announced the official release date for Otus ML 35/1.4, at least applicable for Japan. The date is 29th of April, which happens to be a national holiday in Japan. It' basically a starting point for Golden Week holidays here. I'm looking forward to picking up mine and using it through the holiday.
I am not surprised that there is some axial CA. I would expect if anything for a 35mm to be a bit worse than a 50mm for axial CA and we know that the 50mm had some. The question is how much does that affects your evaluation of the lens. For me, although it is something I wish was not there it isn't surprising that it is, and that one issue isn't going to completely determine how I evaluate the lens. For example, I really liked the Zeiss 35 f/1.4 ZM and it too has issues with axial CA and a couple of other issues as well that this lens avoids. Of course others may feel that the axial CA issue is more important and a good reason to avoid the lens, but that is not my take. Of course, YMMV.
I am very glad Juha will be getting the lens and I am very interested to see his samples and to hear his impression of using the lens over a period of time.
Hopefully we will get some proper reviews in May with more sample pictures. So that we can better judge it’s qualities. I am looking forward to your pictures Juha!
Also started Golden Week holidays from today. Weather is cloudy and rain is expected, but I'll try to do some initial shooting today.
We're in what looks like the middle of overcast hell, so I think a lot of my first samples will be with the mono rII. I'll get to see if it's as worthless an IR lens like the other fast Zeisses.
The weather was quite bad for the last few days, until today. I went to a Hot Spring (Sarugakyo Onsen) with my wife on Friday and came back today and I took the Otus 35/1.4 along for the trip, so I got a lot of samples on the trip (with my A7CII). Friday's weather was really bad, with heavy rain in the evening and night, but I took a lot of shots anyway, including indoors. Today the sun came out but there were very strong winds up there at the mountains. I did my usual PP on these in C1 Pro but I used some alternative presets on various bad weather shots since my favorite one isn't ideal in those conditions.
I'm enjoying the lens a lot so far and I think it will make a very nice pair with the Otus ML 50/1.4 which I already had from before. Both lenses feel very similar in use. 35/1.4 is very sharp from wide open already at MFD (0.3m) and it's also sharp from corner-to-corner from wide open, but there is quite much vignetting at f1.4. I think the rendering is very pleasant. I will use it mostly at f1.4 for bokeh shots and at f4 for cityscape type shots.
Juha Kannisto wrote:
The weather was quite bad for the last few days, until today. I went to a Hot Spring (Sarugakyo Onsen) with my wife on Friday and came back today and I took the Otus 35/1.4 along for the trip, so I got a lot of samples on the trip (with my A7CII).
Awesome samples and what a beautiful place in general! Thanks for sharing Juha.
Very nice Juha. I like the rendering a lot. I am now very tempted to get this lens as well, although it is difficult to justify having the Voigtlander APO 35/2 as well which I primarily use for landscapes.
There weren't too many days with nice light during the Golden Week holidays this time around so I didn't get to enjoy shooting as much as I would have liked, but I hope there'll be more chances soon.
I picked up the 50mm ML recently. The old 85mm Otus was probably the best lens I’ve ever handled in terms of rendering, color, contrast, bokeh, and overall character. I no longer own it, but after using the 50mm ML, I immediately had that same feeling again. The Otus signature is definitely there.
Yes, there is some CA that I would have liked to see better controlled, but honestly, the lens still delivers where it matters most: the look of the images.
I also compared it to the Voigtländer APO Lanthar. In some situations the color rendering can look very close, while in others the difference is obvious. To my eyes, Zeiss generally leans warmer, while the Voigtländer feels more neutral and clinical.
For those of us who love Zeiss rendering and enjoy manual focus, this line is fantastic, especially the 35mm and 50mm since they remain reasonably manageable in terms of size and weight.
Thanks for all the samples! I also picked up the Otus ML 35/1.4. Hopefully, I can share some samples soon. So far I really like the lens but it's hard to say if it's better than the Voigtlander 35/2 APO (except for the extra stop). Build quality is very nice and it's a pleasure to use the lens.
Just saw your samples Juha. Thanks. Love the rendering on the images you shared. I look forward to when my sales rep informs me it has arrived. Hoped this time it would arrive sooner as it was ordered on day one but alas looks like my dealer's distributer as in the past is not high on the list to receive their allotment early on. I'll just enjoy seeing what you and others post in the interim.
