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I left my digital camera behind.

  
 
chez
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p.2 #1 · I left my digital camera behind.


fjablo wrote:
And yet digitized film still looks different than native digital.


You can make any digital image look exactly how one wants.



Feb 09, 2026 at 09:59 AM
fjablo
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p.2 #2 · I left my digital camera behind.


chez wrote:
You can make any digital image look exactly how one wants.


Sure, then please show me your perfect recreations of Portra, Ektar, Velvia 50 shots.

It is true in theory, but not at all in practice.

There are non-linear relationships in how film reacts to light intensity AND different wavelengths of light. So not only would you have to edit things like exposure, brightness, contrast individually for different colors, you'd also have to work around the limitations of editing tools which are typically not built for nonlinear responses (e.g. film doesn't just clip highlights when density increases).

In the end the effort to recreate film correctly would be so high, it's much more practical to just shoot film.



Feb 09, 2026 at 11:15 AM
AmbientMike
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p.2 #3 · I left my digital camera behind.




chez wrote:
You can make any digital image look exactly how one wants.


I mostly disagree. Its mostly true but a lot harder than one might think



Feb 09, 2026 at 11:34 AM
AmbientMike
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p.2 #4 · I left my digital camera behind.


I guess I was cooler than i thought before going digital in 2005, shooting film my entire vacation


Feb 09, 2026 at 11:55 AM
1bwana1
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p.2 #5 · I left my digital camera behind.



fjablo wrote:
Sure, then please show me your perfect recreations of Portra, Ektar, Velvia 50 shots.

It is true in theory, but not at all in practice.

There are non-linear relationships in how film reacts to light intensity AND different wavelengths of light. So not only would you have to edit things like exposure, brightness, contrast individually for different colors, you'd also have to work around the limitations of editing tools which are typically not built for nonlinear responses (e.g. film doesn't just clip highlights when density increases).

In the end the effort to recreate film correctly would be so high, it's
...Show more

All that is true. But in practice as you point out it is not.

If you take your film negative/slide and develop it and then print by wet process the colors, exposures, contrast, sharpness, basically everything is subjective to the printing process, chemicals, paper, and technician you chose. Film, even the same exact brand and product is not the same. Even varying by batch.

If you want to digitize it there are all the variables of scanner, process, software, editing, displays that make it different. Now compound that by the digital printing equipment, processing, inks, papers.

No film is not film. Like digital it varies a great deal. Whichever path you choose to follow, as long as you are pleased with the result is really what matters.

But challenging someone to match your idea of what a film looks like is really not a realistic basis for discussion and an unreasonable pursuit.



Feb 09, 2026 at 11:58 AM
chez
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p.2 #6 · I left my digital camera behind.


fjablo wrote:
Sure, then please show me your perfect recreations of Portra, Ektar, Velvia 50 shots.

It is true in theory, but not at all in practice.

There are non-linear relationships in how film reacts to light intensity AND different wavelengths of light. So not only would you have to edit things like exposure, brightness, contrast individually for different colors, you'd also have to work around the limitations of editing tools which are typically not built for nonlinear responses (e.g. film doesn't just clip highlights when density increases).

In the end the effort to recreate film correctly would be so high, it's
...Show more

Better yet, do this experiment. Take some photos with portra and have some prints made…then scan those exact same negatives and make prints from those scans. I bet the prints would look totally different.



Feb 09, 2026 at 12:08 PM
OregonSun
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p.2 #7 · I left my digital camera behind.


chez wrote:
Better yet, do this experiment. Take some photos with portra and have some prints made…then scan those exact same negatives and make prints from those scans. I bet the prints would look totally different.


So now you're saying you can't make any digital image look exactly how you want?

Please find something better to do than trolling film threads with your non-sensical assertions.




Feb 09, 2026 at 12:39 PM
1bwana1
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p.2 #8 · I left my digital camera behind.




OregonSun wrote:
So now you're saying you can't make any digital image look exactly how you want?

Please find something better to do than trolling film threads with your non-sensical assertions.




I think what he is saying is that there is no consistant target.

Maybe try shooting film and digital side by side in studio under exactly the same conditions. Then finish the film. Then target that single exposure on the exact same device. I am guessing then digital could get close enough that most would accept it.



Feb 09, 2026 at 01:08 PM
fjablo
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p.2 #9 · I left my digital camera behind.


1bwana1 wrote:
All that is true. But in practice as you point out it is not.

If you take your film negative/slide and develop it and then print by wet process the colors, exposures, contrast, sharpness, basically everything is subjective to the printing process, chemicals, paper, and technician you chose. Film, even the same exact brand and product is not the same. Even varying by batch.

If you want to digitize it there are all the variables of scanner, process, software, editing, displays that make it different. Now compound that by the digital printing equipment, processing, inks, papers.

No film is not film. Like
...Show more

I did not challenge him to match "my idea" of what a film is supposed to look like. Happy for him to shoot both the digital and the film and scan it so it's all "his idea". My point is that even that is incredibly hard to the point that it's practically impossible. What is unrealistic about this pursuit?

Purely hypothetical statements that are proven wrong by factual observation are a pointless basis for discussion. "In theory a digital image could be made to look like film" - yes, in theory, and yet they don't succeed in this so what's the point of this statement? But he's also not interested in a serious discussion anyway, just likes to troll threads about film for whatever reason.

Regarding the subjectivity and variety in results from the same film: that is 100% the case, esp. with negative film. However, there are still limits to how far film can be pushed in a certain direction with regard to color and tonal response before the image falls apart. So it's not completely arbitrary and film *is* still film at its core - more akin to a HEIC file than a RAW file in digital terms.



Feb 09, 2026 at 01:19 PM
chez
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p.2 #10 · I left my digital camera behind.


OregonSun wrote:
So now you're saying you can't make any digital image look exactly how you want?

Please find something better to do than trolling film threads with your non-sensical assertions.



Is that what you really read into my statement…maybe read it a little bit slower next time…you might actually comprehend something.



Feb 09, 2026 at 01:25 PM
 


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1bwana1
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p.2 #11 · I left my digital camera behind.




I did not challenge him to match "my idea" of what a film is supposed to look like. Happy for him to shoot both the digital and the film and scan it so it's all "his idea". My point is that even that is incredibly hard to the point that it's practically impossible. What is unrealistic about this pursuit?

Purely hypothetical statements that are proven wrong by factual observation are a pointless basis for discussion. "In theory a digital image could be made to look like film" - yes, in theory, and yet they don't succeed in this so what's the
...Show more

You realize of course that there are whole companies and also a major camera brand based on the proposition that you are wrong on this matter.

I don't think you can extend that someone refuses to accept your challenge as proof that it cannot be done.



Feb 09, 2026 at 01:34 PM
fjablo
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p.2 #12 · I left my digital camera behind.


Another layer to this topic, for those who are seriously interested anyway:

There are often no digital equivalents for film cameras. An obvious example would be a Rolleiflex which is very different than any digital camera. But it also applies to 35mm SLRs as featured in the video - size, weight, handling, design, all quite different compared to modern cameras.

And the way a camera handles, feels and looks changes my response to it as a user. Might be the practical response because maybe there are limitations that dictate types of images I can or cannot do in a given moment or environment (large format is probably the most extreme example for this). Might also be the emotional response that inspires to take certain types of images.

Not knowing what you got also changes your approach to taking pictures.

So consciously and subconsciously the tools and process that comes with film photography have an impact on the types of images one takes. And not having a digital "safety net" with you exacerbates this.



Feb 09, 2026 at 01:38 PM
OregonSun
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p.2 #13 · I left my digital camera behind.


1bwana1 wrote:
I think what he is saying is that there is no consistant target.

Maybe try shooting film and digital side by side in studio under exactly the same conditions. Then finish the film. Then target that single exposure on the exact same device. I am guessing then digital could get close enough that most would accept it.


Of course there's no consistent target, photography is mostly art, not science.

"Guessing then digital could get close enough that most would accept it" is just another personal opinion. Even if your guess could be verified, who cares what "most would accept" anyway?

Honestly, I don't really see the point in comparing film and digital in any systematic way, especially when the point of the comparison (and the proposed test) seems to be just to push the opinion that digital is better or indistinguishable from film. There are plenty of other 'tests' that might show the opposite, like taking two single 5 hour exposures of the night sky at the same time on film and digital.

Photography is an individual creative process, the choice of tools and techniques is highly personal and not always objectively justifiable by comparing the resulting images (e.g. all the reasons people have for using Leicas that don't have to do with objective output).

But some people always feel the need to convince others (and maybe themselves) that their way is the best and everyone else's is misguided.




Feb 09, 2026 at 01:47 PM
fjablo
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p.2 #14 · I left my digital camera behind.




You realize of course that there are whole companies and also a major camera brand based on the proposition that you are wrong on this matter.

I don't think you can extend that someone refuses to accept your challenge as proof that it cannot be done.


You mean Fujifilm? I think there are even official statements from them clarifying that their film simulations are rather losely inspired by their film stocks than true recreations.

Their play is really more about marketing and the brand value that is still linked to their film stock names. Most of their users who like Astia have probably never seen the real thing either.

Oh since I said it's possible in theory - probably the most realistic way of achieving a near-perfect representation of a film stock would be a camera manufacturer like Fujifilm (or someone collaborating with Kodak) investing the time and resources to tweak a RAW profile accordingly. I don't think there's enough upside from doing this to justify the cost though.



Feb 09, 2026 at 01:47 PM
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p.2 #15 · I left my digital camera behind.


OregonSun wrote:
Of course there's no consistent target, photography is mostly art, not science.

"Guessing then digital could get close enough that most would accept it" is just another personal opinion. Even if your guess could be verified, who cares what "most would accept" anyway?

Honestly, I don't really see the point in comparing film and digital in any systematic way, especially when the point of the comparison (and the proposed test) seems to be just to push the opinion that digital is better or indistinguishable from film. There are plenty of other 'tests' that might show the opposite, like taking two single 5
...Show more

See, that is what I originally said. Shoot what gives you the result you are happy with. Close enough for most to accept is in all things when it comes to this topic. Film is also not exactly the same across batches. Neither are sensors, neither are displays, neither are printers, neither are papers.

This whole challenge this just doesn't make sense to me is what I am saying.



Feb 09, 2026 at 01:51 PM
1bwana1
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p.2 #16 · I left my digital camera behind.




You mean Fujifilm? I think there are even official statements from them clarifying that their film simulations are rather losely inspired by their film stocks than true recreations.

Their play is really more about marketing and the brand value that is still linked to their film stock names. Most of their users who like Astia have probably never seen the real thing either.

Oh since I said it's possible in theory - probably the most realistic way of achieving a near-perfect representation of a film stock would be a camera manufacturer like Fujifilm (or someone collaborating with Kodak) investing the time
...Show more

Exactly. In theory it can be done. Practically there is no reason to do it. Even the manufacturers like Fuji say "loosely based" and most accept it.

The challenge that was made makes no sense. The fact that someone doesn't accept the challenge is not proof that it can't not be done.



Feb 09, 2026 at 01:54 PM
fjablo
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p.2 #17 · I left my digital camera behind.




Exactly. In theory it can be done. Practically there is no reason to do it. Even the manufacturers like Fuji say "loosely based" and most accept it.

The challenge that was made makes no sense. The fact that someone doesn't accept the challenge is not proof that it can't not be done.


So we agree then that for any user who values the look of film it makes sense to just shoot film?

You keep misquoting my challenge, please stop doing that. My challenge was that *he* would not be able to do it nor would any individual user without impractical levels of effort, hence his point that you can make digital look any way you like / look like film was irrelevant.

Just because there's not a big enough market for Fujifilm to pursue the true look of film does not mean it's not a worthwhile pursuit for many. Btw one could argue there is a whole company whose business model banks on the fact that you are wrong - Kodak

Here's the Fuji interview by the way (translated from Japanese):
https://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/interview/1291049.html


About Film Simulation
--I'd like to ask about the purpose of film simulation. As the name suggests, does it imitate film?

Irie : Regarding film simulation, I've been reading customer feedback and I feel like we haven't communicated it well enough yet, but this function isn't about simulating the film itself, it's about getting a good image. Personally, I'd like to change the name "film simulation."

(...)

For example, we often receive comments that "the reproducibility is different from that of silver halide ASTIA." The reason for this is that "the image quality design is not targeted at silver halide ASTIA."



Feb 09, 2026 at 02:05 PM
fjablo
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p.2 #18 · I left my digital camera behind.


Some more interesting quotes from the Fujifilm interview below. It's a really worthwhile read imo.
Part 1: https://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/interview/1291049.html
Part 2: https://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/interview/1291056.html

(Un)surprisingly those guys responsible for Fujifilm's color science, have a much more in-depth and nuanced understanding of the differences between film and digital than some in this thread.

It's also funny how they hint at some things being pure marketing decisions which they don't necessarily agree with

Gemini-translated from Japanese, so a little clunky sometimes:

--------------------

— You mentioned earlier that there are areas where digital falls short of film. What specific points does Fujifilm consider film to be superior in?

Irie: To put it in extreme terms, we are in a situation where digital can do almost anything. Because it can do so much, evaluating it becomes very difficult; however, regarding "color continuity," we believe film still holds the advantage.

— Hearing that, I feel like I understand. Film is divided into several photosensitive layers that react to specific colors (wavelengths). Because these layers overlap, they possess a certain "ambiguity" and influence one another, creating a structure that expresses subtle color gradations. Indeed, that type of continuous color expression rooted in "ambiguity"—which is absent in digital where colors are clearly defined by numbers—is a unique strength of film.

Irie: Exactly. Conversely, a unique strength of digital is that it can easily achieve things that are very difficult for silver halide. The prime example of this is the "linearity of gray."

With silver halide, there is "color shifting" (color casts) depending on the density, but digital can express it as a completely neutral gray scale. This is because the image sensor is a semiconductor, so the output changes according to the intensity of the light. In other words, if it receives a fixed amount of light, it outputs quantified data, so it can easily output white as white, gray as gray, and black as black.

In contrast, with silver halide film, various factors such as the photosensitive characteristics of the emulsion or the diffusion characteristics of the film base come into play. This caused color shifts, such as shadows turning blue while highlights turned yellow.

However, by possessing that ambiguity, film is able to express color continuity and smooth tonal transitions. That indescribably beautiful reproduction is the part that is inevitably difficult for digital. Of course, the grain that film possesses also plays a part in this. We have a strong desire for digital to catch up to that level soon.

Fujiwara: For example, positive film shot underwater renders a very deep, beautiful blue. I feel there is still much to learn from film, such as that kind of deep color expression.

By the way, the "Color Chrome Effect" is the result of repeated research and trial and error in an attempt to get closer to that deep color expression possessed by film.

This feature was developed referencing film philosophy. It simulates the "multilayer effect"—also known as the inter-image effect—where the coloration of highly saturated areas is intentionally suppressed. We perform processing that digitally simulates the tonal gradation of these bright areas. By doing so, gradations in areas that tend to look flat* become distinct, allowing for deep color reproduction.



--------------------


— I’m actually an X-Pro2 user myself, and as I mentioned, I personally felt that Velvia wasn't quite right for me. However, when I tried Velvia while reviewing the X100V and X-S10, I recall being surprised, thinking, "Huh? Was it always this good?" I suppose the Color Chrome Effect was playing a role here, too.

Irie: One of the areas where digital Velvia fell short of replicating silver halide Velvia was "color depth." Therefore, by applying the Color Chrome Effect, you are able to get closer to the ideal Velvia.



Feb 09, 2026 at 02:44 PM
Betacamman
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p.2 #19 · I left my digital camera behind.


EB-1 wrote:
I would put 20-25 bare rolls in each quart/liter ziplock bag and keep reusing about 30 film cannisters (Fuji was clear) to save space. I don't miss those film days.


Also, you can squeeze the empty Fuji canisters to make them pop their top and smack into your photo editor. Kodaks just weren't as much fun.



Feb 09, 2026 at 03:16 PM
1bwana1
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p.2 #20 · I left my digital camera behind.


fjablo wrote:
So we agree then that for any user who values the look of film it makes sense to just shoot film?


I absolutely agree as I said multiple times. Film is still a very valid way to make beautiful images.

fjablo wrote:
You keep misquoting my challenge, please stop doing that. My challenge was that *he* would not be able to do it nor would any individual user without impractical levels of effort, hence his point that you can make digital look any way you like / look like film was irrelevant.



I don't think you or I know what *he* is capable of doing. he smartly refused the bait of your challenge.

As I said previously I believe that many competent image editing tool users could take and image shot digitally along side of one shot with film could do a good job of emulating that films look on that image. So, I guess we disagree on that point.


fjablo wrote:
Just because there's not a big enough market for Fujifilm to pursue the true look of film does not mean it's not a worthwhile pursuit for many. Btw one could argue there is a whole company whose business model banks on the fact that you are wrong - Kodak

Here's the Fuji interview by the way (translated from Japanese):
https://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/interview/1291049.html



Thanks for the link, I will try to watch it when I have time.

I never said anything about the size of the market for film emulations. I said in my first post that there are companies that do this type of thing. We don't disagree here at all.




Feb 09, 2026 at 04:08 PM
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