Is there anyone who tried latest FW for bird/animal detection between Sony and Nikon? I think all new Nikon cameras (Z9, Z8, Z6iii and Z50ii) have same bird AF (Animal is different for Nikon). I haven't followed Sony FW. Does A9iii/A1ii have better bird detection compared to A7V or A7RIV?
I'm an ex A1 user and current Z8 user. Haven't used A1II. Tried A9III for a short period.
I kind remember A9III had issues with water in the foreground (ducks etc) and Z8 have issue with long necked birds like heron and sandhill crane. I also think A9III/A1 had issue when there's heavy foreground (birds behind grass or leaves).
Please don't take it as a brand war. I'd like to hear from wildlife lovers. Not camera/brand lovers
Looks like it's not the perfect question or not an easy question to answer. Let me try it in a different way. Did the Bird AF improve since A1 II was introduced? Meaning the did the latest FW improve the BAF?
Nikon and Sony BEAF is mostly on par at least when I last used a Z9 and compared to my A1II.
However, I know the Z9 has had some updates since I used it.
The A1II improved BEAF a little bit in the later FW but it isn't ground breaking.
The A1II still isn't great finding a bird when surrounded by clutter. I'm not sure if Z8/9 is better at this or not.
The only cameras that have really stood out to me as having noticeably superior BEAF are the Canon cameras like R5III and R1. Those cameras are much better for perched birds with distractions around.
All three systems are excellent if the bird is on a clean perch without distractions. Really no different.
As for BIF, the Sony system still is best but it has nothing to do with BEAF. It is really just how well it tracks. You can turn off Subject detection/BEAF and use the Wide or Zone AF modes and the camera will still be superior as the BEAF isn't a huge influence on BIF shooting in my experience.
arbitrage wrote:
Nikon and Sony BEAF is mostly on par at least when I last used a Z9 and compared to my A1II.
However, I know the Z9 has had some updates since I used it.
The A1II improved BEAF a little bit in the later FW but it isn't ground breaking.
The A1II still isn't great finding a bird when surrounded by clutter. I'm not sure if Z8/9 is better at this or not.
The only cameras that have really stood out to me as having noticeably superior BEAF are the Canon cameras like R5III and R1. Those cameras are much better for perched birds with distractions around.
All three systems are excellent if the bird is on a clean perch without distractions. Really no different.
As for BIF, the Sony system still is best but it has nothing to do with BEAF. It is really just how well it tracks. You can turn off Subject detection/BEAF and use the Wide or Zone AF modes and the camera will still be superior as the BEAF isn't a huge influence on BIF shooting in my experience....Show more →
Thank you Geoff. That answers my question. I know A1II will be superior for BIF. Z9 just got an update and many says it's improved over previous FW (which is same as current Z8). So I'm hopeful that Z8 will get it soon. But I don't have much hope that Nikon will surpass Sony for BIF with next gen. If it doesn't I will get back so Sony.
I'm an OM-1 user who is interested in full frame options for birds/BiF.
It appears that both Nikon and Sony do a generally excellent job with AF when properly set up.
As one who often shoots in a highly dynamic light environment, I'd like to know how those cameras, Z8, A1/ii, A9iii , etc., handle EV when shooting both stationary and flying light and dark birds in places that go from direct sunlight to shadows very quickly.
IMO, when using bird detect and spot metering, the metering should be on the detected subject, but it does not appear to work as such with my OM-1. Even with EV at <-1 for example, I get blown highlights on an egret in direct sunlight. When things are active, I generally prioritize framing and SS and would prefer not to have to worry about making big EV changes while doing so. I've tried the ESP metering with no improvement.
Based on your experiences, would you expect the bodies cited above to handle my situation with more accurate metering. Or, can you suggest things I can do with my current gear?
ElvisD wrote:
I'm an OM-1 user who is interested in full frame options for birds/BiF.
It appears that both Nikon and Sony do a generally excellent job with AF when properly set up.
As one who often shoots in a highly dynamic light environment, I'd like to know how those cameras, Z8, A1/ii, A9iii , etc., handle EV when shooting both stationary and flying light and dark birds in places that go from direct sunlight to shadows very quickly.
IMO, when using bird detect and spot metering, the metering should be on the detected subject, but it does not appear to work as such with my OM-1. Even with EV at <-1 for example, I get blown highlights on an egret in direct sunlight. When things are active, I generally prioritize framing and SS and would prefer not to have to worry about making big EV changes while doing so. I've tried the ESP metering with no improvement.
Based on your experiences, would you expect the bodies cited above to handle my situation with more accurate metering. Or, can you suggest things I can do with my current gear?
Nikon is supposed to have this. It give weight (not sure 100%) to the focused point. I won't say I get perfectly exposed image always. But generally works and I can almost always get it back in post processing. At times I have seen white birds in very bright day get over exposed. It's been a while since I used Sony. So hope some current sony user will give their perspective.
This is just my experience, yours may be different. For finding a bird on a stick with cluttered background, I find the Z8 to be slightly better than the A1 II and significantly better than the A1. A1 II will use the same lens as the A1 and there is a huge improvement in A1 II with latest firmware vs the A1 on latest firmware. Of course my testing is confounded with lenses. In Sony I am using 400-800, 100-400 and 300 GM with 2X TC. On Nikon Z8 I am using the 600mm PF usually with the 1.4x TC.
For BIF on clean background, I find the A1 II to be better than A1 and both are better that the Z8
So, which performs better will depend on application. I wish I had the money and arm strength to try Z8 Vs A1 where both were using their respective 600mm f4's, but I didn't win either the Powerball or the steroid lottery.
Jemini wrote:
Nikon is supposed to have this. It give weight (not sure 100%) to the focused point. I won't say I get perfectly exposed image always. But generally works and I can almost always get it back in post processing. At times I have seen white birds in very bright day get over exposed. It's been a while since I used Sony. So hope some current sony user will give their perspective.
I jut checked with my A1 - spot exposure doesn't follow focus point when tracking a moving subject - unless I did something incorrect - I did have spot follow focus ON
billsnature wrote:
This is just my experience, yours may be different. For finding a bird on a stick with cluttered background, I find the Z8 to be slightly better than the A1 II and significantly better than the A1. A1 II will use the same lens as the A1 and there is a huge improvement in A1 II with latest firmware vs the A1 on latest firmware. Of course my testing is confounded with lenses. In Sony I am using 400-800, 100-400 and 300 GM with 2X TC. On Nikon Z8 I am using the 600mm PF usually with the 1.4x TC.
For BIF on clean background, I find the A1 II to be better than A1 and both are better that the Z8
So, which performs better will depend on application. I wish I had the money and arm strength to try Z8 Vs A1 where both were using their respective 600mm f4's, but I didn't win either the Powerball or the steroid lottery....Show more →
I think things didn't change significantly with latest FW on A1II. I'm sure Nikon will implement RAW pre-capture with next gen. Not sure if Nikon will be able to surpass Sony for tracking. Will wait for Z9 II on that
BTW, for me, If I have too many choices (for cameras), I'll be confused about what to take when I get out. So I'm glad I didn't win the lottery . Still drool about A1 II at times
ElvisD wrote:
IMO, when using bird detect and spot metering, the metering should be on the detected subject, but it does not appear to work as such with my OM-1. Even with EV at <-1 for example, I get blown highlights on an egret in direct sunlight. When things are active, I generally prioritize framing and SS and would prefer not to have to worry about making big EV changes while doing so. I've tried the ESP metering with no improvement.
Based on your experiences, would you expect the bodies cited above to handle my situation with more accurate metering. Or, can you suggest things I can do with my current gear?
I don't know of anyone that successfully uses spot metering or spot focusing on birds in flight unless they are large, slow flying birds. I would bet that you are not keeping that spot focus point on the birds at all times.
With a white egret in direct sunlight you can shoot at -2 or even -3 f-stops. You can see in your viewfinder or with a histogram what is best amount.
With still or slow-moving subjects you can also shoot a burst using exposure bracketing.
ElvisD wrote:
I'm an OM-1 user who is interested in full frame options for birds/BiF.
It appears that both Nikon and Sony do a generally excellent job with AF when properly set up.
As one who often shoots in a highly dynamic light environment, I'd like to know how those cameras, Z8, A1/ii, A9iii , etc., handle EV when shooting both stationary and flying light and dark birds in places that go from direct sunlight to shadows very quickly.
IMO, when using bird detect and spot metering, the metering should be on the detected subject, but it does not appear to work as such with my OM-1. Even with EV at <-1 for example, I get blown highlights on an egret in direct sunlight. When things are active, I generally prioritize framing and SS and would prefer not to have to worry about making big EV changes while doing so. I've tried the ESP metering with no improvement.
Based on your experiences, would you expect the bodies cited above to handle my situation with more accurate metering. Or, can you suggest things I can do with my current gear?
With Sony it is probably best to use zebra's and manual exposure for setting the exposure when shooting wildlife where the light environment can change rapidly. Sony can be set to use point metering and to follow the focus point but this is still not as reliable as simply using manual focus. With the Sony EVF you see the actual exposure so it's pretty easy to see when exposure is incorrect and when coupled with Zebras it becomes very easy to never get the exposure wrong.
With the latest bodies you have three dials so you can set them up for shutter speed, iso and aperture. They're just a finger away and can easily be adjusted without taking your eye off the viewfinder and you can see the zebra's on the subject to make sure you have the correct exposure.
I set the exposure manually using the subject or something a similar colour if the subject hasn't arrived yet. Usually my subjects won't be moving from shadow to sunlight but the background could change dramatically so I want the exposure to stay set for the correct subject exposure.
Over or under exposed images are pretty much a thing of the past with this combination of the Sony tools. With the Z8 and Z9 I found the EVF does not reflect the actual exposure and the histogram gives no indication of where on the image the highlights are overexposed so still lots of room for error.
And then there is the false positive focus on the Z8/Z9 where the focus indicator appears to show that the camera has correctly identified the subject and has acquired focus but when checking in post one finds the camera has missed focus.
In my experience this happens much more frequently than on the Canon/Sony cameras.
As for the subject detection/AF in tricky situations - in my experience the Sony's work great - and with the ability to program two back focus buttons use of a single focus point is always instantly available.
Since switching to Sony it's been rare to have to think about subject detection and autofocus since the camera's take care of that. It would be a long time since I have missed an opportunity because of a Sony camera's subject detection/AF failure.
This guy, a feral fox, appeared out of nowhere while I was photographing birds and the images were taken in Bird detect mode - I didn't think to switch to Animal or Auto. Strange to see one in the daytime as they're usually very timid.
